Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 07-11-2008, 07:57 AM   #21
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,666
Space solar really does have some issues. However it isn't just a 'pipe' dream as some seam to think.
Personally I like a non-centralized system where many/most residences produce their own power or at least a lot of it.
However space based solar would be a very clean alternative to coal
__________________

__________________
"We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.
(Ancient Indian Proverb)"
Zathras is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 07-11-2008, 12:17 PM   #22
Full time employment: Posting here.
Patrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Northern, Florida
Posts: 925
"Because there is energy loss during the process of beaming the energy to Earth and converting it back to electricity, it may not be more cost-effective than placing solar panels in places with ample sunlight."

So why waste money developing this new technology?

Also, one or a few satellites would be prime targets for our enemies. Thousands of individual solar systems distributed across the nation would be virtually uninterruptible.
__________________

__________________
Retired in 2006 at age 49.

"Who among us is smart enough to learn from the mistakes of others?" - Voltaire
Patrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2008, 12:56 PM   #23
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
harley's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Following the nice weather
Posts: 6,427
Quote:
Originally Posted by Helena View Post
One day, space solar will provide the planet with
clean unlimited electricity. Even the scoffers may
live to see it.

Ha! They aren't putting those giant collecter sheets in my night sky, blocking my view of Uranus.

People won't even let the power companies put windmills a few miles offshore to slice seagulls and produce electricity. Not to mention "nukuler" plants. Space would probably have to be an internationally agreed upon process. The UN can't even decide what shape table to use.

Harley
__________________
"Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement." - Will Rogers, or maybe Sam Clemens
DW and I - FIREd at 50 (7/06), living off assets
harley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2008, 12:10 AM   #24
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Telly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,448
Quote:
Originally Posted by harley View Post
Ha! They aren't putting those giant collecter sheets in my night sky, blocking my view of Uranus.
OK, I'll walk into the trip wire...

So you don't want them to put it where the sun don't shine, 'cuz that would block Uranus. Sounds logical to me...
__________________
-- Telly, the D-I-Y guy --
Two fools dancing on the hands of time
Telly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2008, 12:30 AM   #25
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Telly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,448
Quote:
Originally Posted by Helena View Post
One day, space solar will provide the planet with
clean unlimited electricity. Even the scoffers may
live to see it.

Back in the late 70's there was the Solar Power Satellite concept which received quite a bit of thought. A giant geostationary satellite converted solar energy into microwaves which were transmitted to earth via a phased-array antenna. The reception site would be in the Southwest. The receiver would be a multi-square miles "rectenna". A rectenna was a built-up array of antenna elements with a diode in each antenna (rectifying antenna = rectenna). After conditioning, it would power a multitude of inverters to generate AC.

There would be safeguard controls in the satellite to defocus the beam to lower the watts/meter field strength if the satellite for some reason started to wander the microwave beam off of the target antenna field.

But with today's processing power, what could be defocused, could also be focused much tighter, creating the ultimate space-based "heater paint brush". Iranian nuclear complex? Osama Bin Laden out in the Pakistani mountains? Fidel Castro on one of his open-air 8 hr. speeches? No problem! Even tin-foil hats wouldn't help!
We should have built it. I want to work the controls. The ultimate toy.
__________________
-- Telly, the D-I-Y guy --
Two fools dancing on the hands of time
Telly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2008, 08:01 AM   #26
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Midpack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 11,974
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bestwifeever View Post
We haven't run our AC yet (we're in Chicago) and summer is almost half over--take that, electric company! Our new $12 Walmart window fan in the bedroom is doing the trick at night--it blows hot air out until we go to bed, then we turn it around and it blows cooler air in. Bonus is the white noise. Suppose it gets a little too warm in Texas to rely on this method....
We're also in Chicagoland and the temps have been amazing, literally only about 3 hot days so far this entire year - and even then only in the low 90's (unlike to 110+ days I've noticed in AZ and SoCal). And winters here seem to be getting easier every decade. If global warming really is on, I am betting we're going to be sitting on some of the most valuable real estate in the country in time. The south/southwest will simply become unbearable.
__________________
No one agrees with other people's opinions; they merely agree with their own opinions -- expressed by somebody else. Sydney Tremayne
Retired Jun 2011 at age 57

Target AA: 60% equity funds / 35% bond funds / 5% cash
Target WR: Approx 2.5% Approx 20% SI (secure income, SS only)
Midpack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2008, 06:07 PM   #27
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
NW-Bound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 19,406
Quote:
Originally Posted by Midpack View Post
...(unlike to 110+ days I've noticed in AZ and SoCal). The south/southwest will simply become unbearable.
Yeah, rub it in my sunburnt skin...

I have two residences, one in the desert where jobs are, and the second one in the high AZ country (7000ft, cool in summer, COLD in winter with lows in the single digits, and often negative). The mountain home would make a nice main residence, in fact costs more than my desert home. Many AZ residents have the same arrangement to become snowbirds within the state. This was also my original intent, but oh, the costs, the costs...

I thought about consolidating into just one residence to save cost. The problem is in finding a suitable place with a year-round moderate temperature, AND ALSO affordable. Haven't found that yet, and may just give up.

The above is a prelude to the main point which I will say. Solar cooling is still expensive, but solar heating is TRIVIAL. I am experimenting with the latter in my mountain home. In the last energy crisis, there was much published literature on solar heating, but then it died out. Will we see a revival of that soon?
__________________
NW-Bound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2008, 09:24 PM   #28
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 18,266
Quote:
Originally Posted by NW-Bound View Post
Solar cooling is still expensive, but solar heating is TRIVIAL. I am experimenting with the latter in my mountain home. In the last energy crisis, there was much published literature on solar heating, but then it died out. Will we see a revival of that soon?
I think energy will need to get more expensive yet, or alternative energy cheaper. There are so many things that I see that I could do to save on energy costs - but they all cost more than the energy, would wear out, probably break, reduce the resale value of the house, etc, etc...

Now, if you built a house from the ground up with excellent insulation, properly designed air exchange units, and as much passive solar heating/cooling as possible (properly sized overhangs, windows in the correct orientation), it might work for you. I just don't think we are there yet.

-ERD50
__________________
ERD50 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2008, 10:37 PM   #29
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,020
It got up to 85, almost sort of. I was dying outside here. I don't know how you southern people do it. Luckily the people we're staying with love to run the AC so I'm safe inside.
__________________
Marquette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2008, 11:16 PM   #30
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
harley's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Following the nice weather
Posts: 6,427
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
I think energy will need to get more expensive yet, or alternative energy cheaper. There are so many things that I see that I could do to save on energy costs - but they all cost more than the energy, would wear out, probably break, reduce the resale value of the house, etc, etc...

Now, if you built a house from the ground up with excellent insulation, properly designed air exchange units, and as much passive solar heating/cooling as possible (properly sized overhangs, windows in the correct orientation), it might work for you. I just don't think we are there yet.

-ERD50
We just finished and moved into our dream home. My wife did the design and decorating, but I threw my 2 cents in on the tech side. We put in geothermal heating and cooling, with heat recovery ventilation, and a doodad that captures waste heat (when cooling) and uses it to heat the water for free. It's pretty cool. We insulated as best we could, and got quality windows. I looked into solar shingles, but the ROI seemed a long way down the road, plus with all the salt spray they get dirty andefficiency drops quickly.

We just moved from VA to MD, and I've only gotten a couple bills. I'm really curious if the savings are as advertised. They seem a little high, but I think MD prices are a bit higher. My old bills are still in storage, but next week the POD comes. Soon after that I'll do a comparison. Hope it was worth it.

Harley
__________________
"Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement." - Will Rogers, or maybe Sam Clemens
DW and I - FIREd at 50 (7/06), living off assets
harley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2008, 06:51 PM   #31
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 18,266
Quote:
Originally Posted by harley View Post
We just finished and moved into our dream home. My wife did the design and decorating, but I threw my 2 cents in on the tech side. We put in geothermal heating and cooling, with heat recovery ventilation, and a doodad that captures waste heat (when cooling) and uses it to heat the water for free. It's pretty cool. We insulated as best we could, and got quality windows. I looked into solar shingles, but the ROI seemed a long way down the road, plus with all the salt spray they get dirty andefficiency drops quickly.

We just moved from VA to MD, and I've only gotten a couple bills. I'm really curious if the savings are as advertised. They seem a little high, but I think MD prices are a bit higher. My old bills are still in storage, but next week the POD comes. Soon after that I'll do a comparison. Hope it was worth it.

Harley
Meant to reply to this sooner, but...

The changes you made seem like good ones, I suspect you'll get a decent payback, esp if energy continues to rise.

I'm curious about the heat recovery ventilation - I've googled a bit in the past, and they seem expensive. But the idea makes a lot of sense to me. Seems these could get pretty advanced - draw in outside air and heat it with exhausted air while in heating mode; draw in cool air in the summer if the humidity is low, etc. This could be more automatic than opening and closing windows, and could provide filtered air to keep the house cleaner, or help with allergies.

Does your recovery system do any of that?


-ERD50
__________________
ERD50 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2008, 06:58 PM   #32
Full time employment: Posting here.
Patrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Northern, Florida
Posts: 925
Quote:
Originally Posted by harley View Post
I looked into solar shingles, but the ROI seemed a long way down the road, plus with all the salt spray they get dirty andefficiency drops quickly.
Doesn't the dirt get rinsed off the next time it rains?
__________________
Retired in 2006 at age 49.

"Who among us is smart enough to learn from the mistakes of others?" - Voltaire
Patrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2008, 08:41 PM   #33
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 11,615
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
I'm curious about the heat recovery ventilation - I've googled a bit in the past, and they seem expensive. But the idea makes a lot of sense to me. Seems these could get pretty advanced - draw in outside air and heat it with exhausted air while in heating mode; draw in cool air in the summer if the humidity is low, etc. This could be more automatic than opening and closing windows, and could provide filtered air to keep the house cleaner, or help with allergies.
-ERD50
When I was looking into this for our house, I found this thing.
Smartvent® Home Ventilation Products
It looks like an interesting approach, and considerably cheaper than an HRV. I like the positive pressure idea (it might help us with our slifght radon problem, would help keep dust out, etc), and I'm sure it increases indoor air quality. I'd need to figure out the costs (of loss of conditioned air) from running the thing. The documentation also indicated that it measures outdoor humidity, but I would think it would also need to measure indoor humidity in order to be truly "smart."
__________________
"Freedom begins when you tell Mrs. Grundy to go fly a kite." - R. Heinlein
samclem is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2008, 11:37 PM   #34
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Brat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 5,914
I happened to catch a comment that the Silicon Valley is concerned about the capacity of the power grid to transmit what we need. That fits with a comment I heard that the windmills around the Columbia River generated more kw than the system could handle recently.

Consider for a moment how much electric cars will add to the transmission load. Jeesh, there is a lot of infrastructure to consider.

We were pick'n at Picken's possible self interest in the high voltage lines in Texas... Now I will not only give him the benefit of the doubt, I am willing to give him a whole truckload of credit for getting us off our national... arses.
__________________
Duck bjorn.
Brat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2008, 03:51 AM   #35
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Tadpole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,170
Quote:
Originally Posted by harley View Post
We just finished and moved into our dream home. My wife did the design and decorating, but I threw my 2 cents in on the tech side. We put in geothermal heating and cooling, with heat recovery ventilation, and a doodad that captures waste heat (when cooling) and uses it to heat the water for free. It's pretty cool. We insulated as best we could, and got quality windows. I looked into solar shingles, but the ROI seemed a long way down the road, plus with all the salt spray they get dirty andefficiency drops quickly.

We just moved from VA to MD, and I've only gotten a couple bills. I'm really curious if the savings are as advertised. They seem a little high, but I think MD prices are a bit higher. My old bills are still in storage, but next week the POD comes. Soon after that I'll do a comparison. Hope it was worth it.

Harley
It is my understanding that the MD electric bills were held down by the MD government and that we are due for a rapid increase now that those arrangements are expiring.
__________________

__________________
Tadpole is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
electric, electricity


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Rise of the middle-class millionaire omni550 FIRE and Money 17 03-07-2008 05:22 PM
Countdown to the Tax-Rise Torpedo camberiu FIRE and Money 16 01-15-2007 07:08 PM
burying the dead rise less than 1% lazygood4nothinbum Life after FIRE 14 04-14-2006 12:14 PM
Investing When Interest Rates Rise Mary Woods FIRE and Money 40 09-17-2004 07:59 AM
When interest rates rise.... wabmester FIRE and Money 36 02-06-2004 05:38 AM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:16 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.