Emergency savings dangerously thin even for upper-income earners according to CNN

[NanoSour]

Now I need a glass of wine.....

I like this guy.

 

[Walt34]

My wife and daughter are both teachers.

They have my sympathies. I have a niece who is a teacher. Very rarely are teachers paid even near what they are worth.

 

[Jay_Gatsby]

There is hope in some places. Here in WV Blue Ridge Community and Technical College offers classes in things like welding, CNC maintenance/repair, electrician, truck driving, chef, plumbing, and a lot of others, all trades that will be in demand for the foreseeable future and that pay enough to support oneself and/or bootstrap oneself to what one really wants to do.

I do remember taking a financial basics class in HS, I forget what they called it - how to figure interest, the difference between a savings and checking account, stocks and bonds, and of course how to write a check and balance a checkbook. It was one of the two most practical classes I took in HS. The other was typing.

The problem is not only the availability of so-called "trades" skill training, but rather the perception of being in the trades. Until about 30 years or so ago, the "trades" were seen as honorable work - indeed, millions of WWII veterans went into them and joined the unions. These days, despite the clear need for tradesmen (I've seen hundreds of openings with solid pay), parents and their teenage kids are somehow convinced that everyone has to go to college. Those kids who can't afford college often default into very low paying jobs (e.g., pizza delivery, retail sales, waitress/waiter, etc...) instead of learning a trade. They languish for years in such low paying jobs, when they could be making $40k+ annually after a year or two in the trades. While the trades have traditionally been bastions of men, there are growing opportunities for women for less physical roles (but which are still essential).

 

[JPatrick]

I have $16 on hand at the moment, and that is earmarked for the Girl Scout cookies I'm expecting soon...
However, I am "credit card points" rich.

 

[Walt34]

The problem is not only the availability of so-called "trades" skill training, but rather the perception of being in the trades. Until about 30 years or so ago, the "trades" were seen as honorable work - indeed, millions of WWII veterans went into them and joined the unions. These days, despite the clear need for tradesmen (I've seen hundreds of openings with solid pay), parents and their teenage kids are somehow convinced that everyone has to go to college.

That's the sad part, but there are of course exceptions and those people will do well in part because of the lack of competition. The young fellow who bought FIL's house paid just under $300k for it and he's a Master Electrician. While I'm sure it is not an easy cert to get (stupid people need not apply) it doesn't require a college degree and apparently pays well.

So I think there is hope. Not everyone is cut out for college and most of them know it so they take a different path. But that doesn't mean a low paying service job.

 

[Big_Hitter]

I have $16 on hand at the moment, and that is earmarked for the Girl Scout cookies I'm expecting soon...
However, I am "credit card points" rich.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

I like Mike Rowe's (the Dirty Jobs guy) description of the problem of student debt for college versus unfilled trade jobs:

"We are lending money we don't have to kids who can't pay it back to train them for jobs that no longer exist. That's nuts.”

He has a foundation trying to highlight the job openings in many non-college career paths:
http://profoundlydisconnected.com/

 

[Nemo2]

parents and their teenage kids are somehow convinced that everyone has to go to college.

Twenty plus years ago, in coastal British Columbia, we had some plumbing work done.......our plumber sent over a young guy, wild green hair, the lot........got talking to him, he noted that the rest of his graduating cohort wanted 'office jobs with clean shirts' while he opted for a profession that would make him pretty good money, for which he didn't have to dress up, and that would likely (in one form or another) always be in demand........smart young guy.

 

[Options]

See this:

Two-Tier Economy Reshapes U.S. Marketplace

The emergence of a two-tiered U.S. economy, with wealthy households advancing while middle- and lower-income Americans struggle, is reshaping markets for everything from housing to clothing to groceries to beer.

“It’s a tale of two economies,” said Glenn Kelman, chief executive of Redfin, a real-estate brokerage in Seattle that operates in 25 states. “There is a high-end market that is absolutely booming. And then there’s everyone in the middle class. They don’t have much hope of wage growth.”

 

[Cobra9777]

Twenty plus years ago, in coastal British Columbia, we had some plumbing work done.......our plumber sent over a young guy, wild green hair, the lot........got talking to him, he noted that the rest of his graduating cohort wanted 'office jobs with clean shirts' while he opted for a profession that would make him pretty good money, for which he didn't have to dress up, and that would likely (in one form or another) always be in demand........smart young guy.

I have a good friend who owns a small plumbing business here in Texas. I always ask him, "How's business?" His response is always the same... "Business is great, pipes still getting clogged as always. But I could double my revenue if I could get reliable, skilled help." His guys average over $50K/yr with full benefits (very low COL area). But nobody wants to do it. The few that do typically have a criminal background or they're in the country illegally, or other issues. He loves to pontificate about how unemployment stats are a crock, and the real issue is that young people don't want to work hard and get their hands dirty... entitlement mentality... over-parenting... video games... rap music... I'll stop there.

 

[Gumby]

Perhaps the most interesting thing of all to me is the comments. There seems to be such a sense of entitlement to a lifestyle beyond one's means.

I rarely agree politically with Megan McArdle, Peggy Noonan or Joni Ernst, but I thought this piece really captured how "entitled" we have all become as a society.

When Bread Bags Weren't Funny - Bloomberg View

In every generation, we forget how much poorer we used to be, and then we forget that we have forgotten. We focus on the things that seem funny or monstrous or quaint and darling. Somehow the simplest and most important fact -- the immense differences between their living standards and ours -- slides right past our eye.

 

[REWahoo]

I rarely agree politically with Megan McArdle, Peggy Noonan or Joni Ernst, but I thought this piece really captured how "entitled" we have all become as a society.

When Bread Bags Weren't Funny - Bloomberg View

That's a powerful message.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

I rarely agree politically with Megan McArdle, Peggy Noonan or Joni Ernst, but I thought this piece really captured how "entitled" we have all become as a society.

When Bread Bags Weren't Funny - Bloomberg View

From the article:

"Then imagine how your five-year-old would feel if they got an orange and a Corelle place setting for Christmas."

My grandmother used to get an orange from church for Christmas. In school she got an assignment to write about her Christmas and she lied about getting a doll and some other nice toys. She didn't want the other kids to know she was so poor all she got was an orange and even that was charity.

 

[nun]

Stagnating wages, a consumer economy that encourages debt and spending and increasing costs in housing, health care and education stacks the deck against many Americans. The "hour glass" society that we live in now obviously means that the middle class is disappearing and people just don't have spare cash on hand, so the numbers in the original link don't surprise me at all.

 

[ERD50]

I rarely agree politically with Megan McArdle, Peggy Noonan or Joni Ernst, but I thought this piece really captured how "entitled" we have all become as a society.

When Bread Bags Weren't Funny - Bloomberg View

Very interesting read, thanks for posting.

This was good also, linked in that article:

SleuthSayers: The $3500 Shirt - A History Lesson in Economics

Not sure I agree with the methodology, but clearly, a simple shirt was an expensive item long ago.

These are a good reply for the 'good old days' posters. How long before we get a reprise of " The Four..." (dare I say it)?

-ERD50

 

[nun]

I rarely agree politically with Megan McArdle, Peggy Noonan or Joni Ernst, but I thought this piece really captured how "entitled" we have all become as a society.

When Bread Bags Weren't Funny - Bloomberg View

To say that we are better off than in 1901 isn't really very useful. Expectations have changed and the more useful comparison would be against our parents. Are Americans better off than their parents? What about comparing debt. Has the debt to income ratio increased over time? and is that a better metric of our financial health than the number of kitchen cabinets we have.?

Also there are certainly many places in America that are just very poor and the trend over the last 30 years has been for the middle class to shrink as people slip into poverty. The trend is not good so saying we are mostly better off than in 1901 is pretty useless.

 

[Winemaker]

Americans are much better off now than 1901, it's just most people don't realize it or are ignorant of the past. Many fathers left before the break of day to toil in the mines, fields, furnaces, railroads, and else where, never to return due to accidents, mayhem and crime. Now for many it's "eight and skate". Women raised their children until they could do chores or get a job to put food on the table. They owed their soul to the company store because of necessity not because they wanted a big screen TV. Yeah, we may have to pay $75.00 to the UrgentCare in the mall, but none of my kids, or their friends have dysentery, the croup, for weeks or TB til death. Far from useless.

 

[Jay_Gatsby]

Americans are much better off now than 1901, it's just most people don't realize it or are ignorant of the past. Many fathers left before the break of day to toil in the mines, fields, furnaces, railroads, and else where, never to return due to accidents, mayhem and crime. Now for many it's "eight and skate". Women raised their children until they could do chores or get a job to put food on the table. They owed their soul to the company store because of necessity not because they wanted a big screen TV. Yeah, we may have to pay $75.00 to the UrgentCare in the mall, but none of my kids, or their friends have dysentery, the croup, for weeks or TB til death. Far from useless.

"Poor" is a relative term. It depends on where and when you live(d). Today, the poorest people in the U.S. are richer than 99% of the people in a 3rd world country. It's not how much you have, it's how you use what you have and your plan on how to get more.

 

[nun]

"Poor" is a relative term. It depends on where and when you live(d). Today, the poorest people in the U.S. are richer than 99% of the people in a 3rd world country. It's not how much you have, it's how you use what you have and your plan on how to get more.

Many people in America are on the edge, as pointed out in the article. Some have nice things, food and health....although their health is not as good as in most developed countries. The problem is they also have lots of debt and no savings so an illness or job loss can quickly send them into poverty.

 

[Jay_Gatsby]

Many people in America are on the edge, as pointed out in the article. Some have nice things, food and health....although their health is not as good as in most developed countries. The problem is they also have lots of debt and no savings so an illness or job loss can quickly send them into poverty.

Agreed. However, and not to derail the discussion, but the social safety net we have is supposed to help with this type of situation. But that safety net also requires the people who use it recognize how they got in the situation they are in and how to avoid it in the future.

 

[someguy]

See this:

Two-Tier Economy Reshapes U.S. Marketplace

Thanks for sharing this. I think it supports what I was saying (or trying to say) in my second post in this thread. Which is: the "well-offness" of Americans is increasing, but the expectations and entitlements of Americans are growing even faster.

An income of mid 30K puts one in the 1%....worldwide.

 

[G8tr]

Thanks for sharing this. I think it supports what I was saying (or trying to say) in my second post in this thread. Which is: the "well-offness" of Americans is increasing, but the expectations and entitlements of Americans are growing even faster.



An income of mid 30K puts one in the 1%....worldwide.

But worldwide is an irrelevant measure, except perhaps to make people feel grateful by comparison.


Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum

 

[someguy]

But worldwide is an irrelevant measure, except perhaps to make people feel grateful by comparison.

Yes, but isn't much of the grumbling in the US about exactly that? I.e., even though the middle is far better off in life's basic necessities than even the wealthy of the recent past, they instead compare themselves to today's top?

 

[daylatedollarshort]

It is too bad there isn't more written about what does it really take to be in the top 1% of happiness.

 

[ERD50]

But worldwide is an irrelevant measure, except perhaps to make people feel grateful by comparison.

Why irrelevant?

-ERD50