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09-02-2018, 01:30 PM
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#101
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 40,706
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Quote:
Originally Posted by braumeister
It's not feudalism; it's an anarcho-syndicalist commune.
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One of my favorite films
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09-02-2018, 01:33 PM
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#102
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 8,968
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We don't pay "extremely high taxes"
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09-02-2018, 01:35 PM
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#103
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gone traveling
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 994
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Quote:
Originally Posted by youbet
Yes! Those that need the money the least, that is, those who can afford to live a nice retirement without their deferred savings, will now get extra time before beginning to pay the taxes they chose to defer. Perhaps they will do some sort of "means testing" where those with the highest net worth get to wait the longest before beginning to pay the deferred taxes?
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As I have posted repeatedly here, I have been taking out money from my traditional IRA for many years and will continue to do so [as I choose.]
The problem is not taking out money or paying the tax.
The problem is the RMD that FORCES you to take out an amount the government dictates every year... and every year that amount changes... and if the elderly person does not calculate correctly and does not take out the correct government mandated amount, the IRS will fine him 50% of the error. Amazing how many think that is a wonderful burden to force on old people.
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09-02-2018, 01:40 PM
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#104
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Flyover country
Posts: 25,347
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helena
As I have posted repeatedly here...
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ad nauseam
Quote:
The problem is the RMD that FORCES you to take out an amount the government dictates every year... and every year that amount changes.
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exactly as promised when you set up the account, and spread out over your remaining lifetime.
__________________
I thought growing old would take longer.
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09-02-2018, 01:48 PM
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#105
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gone traveling
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 994
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Quote:
Originally Posted by braumeister
ad nauseam
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Obviously a waste of my time and effort.
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09-02-2018, 01:56 PM
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#106
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: yonder
Posts: 2,851
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helena
and if the elderly person does not calculate correctly and take out the correct government mandated amount, the IRS will fine him 50% of the error. Amazing how many think that is a wonderful burden to force on old people...
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Yes, I'm totally amazed by the vast majority of people who have posted on this thread who think this way.
__________________
When the people shall have nothing more to eat, they will eat the rich--philosopher Jean-Jacques Rousseau
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09-02-2018, 01:57 PM
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#107
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 11,327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by youbet
Yes! Those that need the money the least, that is, those who can afford to live a nice retirement without their deferred savings, will now get extra time before beginning to pay the taxes they chose to defer. Perhaps they will do some sort of "means testing" where those with the highest net worth get to wait the longest before beginning to pay the deferred taxes?
Warren and Bill will be thrilled!
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+1. Seems like a lot of angst around here over a tax deal that has already improved for most of us due to lower brackets under the recent tax cut. You took your deferments with known expectations. Now pay the tax. For those worrying about the kids getting whacked, how about pulling out more than your RMDs now at your lower brackets and put the excess in taxable where the kids can pick it up free and clear? If you are already so loaded that you are at the top brackets during RMD days, quit complaining - you just got a massive tax cut.
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09-02-2018, 02:04 PM
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#108
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 14,328
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helena
...........think about your money going to the billions spent on foreign aid in one year..
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I really get tired of this old canard. Foreign aid is about 1% of the budget and most of that goes to allies for military assistance or buying off governments, especially in the Middle East.
U.S. foreign aid: A waste of money or a boost to world stability? Here are the facts
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09-02-2018, 02:08 PM
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#109
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gone traveling
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 994
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travelover
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In other words, instead of the analogy of our RMD tax money going to fill potholes on roads we use... it's used to fill potholes on foreign roads we don't use.
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09-02-2018, 02:09 PM
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#110
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 9,958
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09-02-2018, 02:33 PM
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#111
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sarasota, FL & Vermont
Posts: 36,361
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helena
If the RMD age were raised or eliminated, I would do what I have already been doing for many years... intelligently withdraw the amount of money I choose from my traditional IRA every year which is a tax advantage to me.
Under RMD rules, the government forces you to withdraw the amount the government chooses [and if you don't calculate and withdraw correctly, the IRS can fine you 50% of the error] which is a tax advantage to the government.
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Helena, thou doth protest too much. You knew the rules when you deferred the income. Stop whining now that you have to start paying taxes on what was deferred.
The second part is easy... just do the calculations correctly or have Vanguard or Fidelity help make sure that you do.... believe me, they don't want you to calculate it incorrectly and fine you, they would rather that you just do it right to begin with.
__________________
If something cannot endure laughter.... it cannot endure.
Patience is the art of concealing your impatience.
Slow and steady wins the race.
Retired Jan 2012 at age 56
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09-02-2018, 02:35 PM
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#112
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sarasota, FL & Vermont
Posts: 36,361
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helena
In other words, instead of the analogy of our RMD tax money going to fill potholes on roads we use... it's used to filling potholes on foreign roads we don't use.
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Yup... horrible situation... if I were you I would move.
__________________
If something cannot endure laughter.... it cannot endure.
Patience is the art of concealing your impatience.
Slow and steady wins the race.
Retired Jan 2012 at age 56
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09-02-2018, 03:24 PM
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#113
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: DC area
Posts: 2,493
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I read the EO as primarily directing Treasury to look at the life expectancy tables. So your 3.95% RMD might become 3.80%. Certainly nice, but it is not going to bust the Treasury nor avoid a whole lot of taxes. The EO does not directly address 59.5/70.5 issues, unless that is what "Distribution Period Tables" represent.
MichaelB and I both previously linked the White House summary, but here is the actual EO: https://www.whitehouse.gov/president...urity-america/. The relevant section is Section 2(d), a very small part of the overall EO.
__________________
FI and Semi-ER March 24, 2017
Consulting to stay engaged
"All models are wrong, some are useful." - George Box
“There is always a well-known solution to every human problem: neat, plausible, and wrong.” - H.L. Mencken
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09-02-2018, 03:35 PM
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#114
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Charlotte
Posts: 222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helena
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Over time and depending on circumstance, government rules change.
Social Security was not taxed until the 1980s. If the government can implement a tax, it can also eliminate a tax.
RMD draconian rules need to change as many financial experts over the years have advocated... and apparently Trump agrees.
I'm not suggesting no taxes be paid on traditional IRA/401k withdrawals. I'm advocating the elimination of the RMD rule, or at least raising the RMD age at least a decade.
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I’d more likely support lowering the first RMD to your FRA.
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09-02-2018, 03:57 PM
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#115
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 35,712
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Quote:
Originally Posted by youbet
Yes! Those that need the money the least, that is, those who can afford to live a nice retirement without their deferred savings, will now get extra time before beginning to pay the taxes they chose to defer. Perhaps they will do some sort of "means testing" where those with the highest net worth get to wait the longest before beginning to pay the deferred taxes?
Warren and Bill will be thrilled!
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I am afraid that what is more likely to happen is that they will say the people who rarely touch their deferred savings are so loaded that they do not really need SS.
OK, if you don't need it we ain't giving it. Or we should tax you more.
Or maybe they are not loaded, but they are used to spending so little, they would not know how to spend more. Take it from them!
But not me. I need all that money, and I have been withdrawing.
__________________
"Old age is the most unexpected of all things that happen to a man" -- Leon Trotsky (1879-1940)
"Those Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities Can Make You Commit Atrocities" - Voltaire (1694-1778)
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09-02-2018, 04:04 PM
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#116
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 35,712
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donheff
... For those worrying about the kids getting whacked, how about pulling out more than your RMDs now at your lower brackets and put the excess in taxable where the kids can pick it up free and clear? ...
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That's been my plan, as I have said. Heh heh heh...
PS. And that after-tax money, until I croak, its dividend and capital gain I can enjoy with no tax. What's not to like? Heh heh heh...
I have drained down my after-tax money quite a bit while waiting for 59-1/2. I would take out money from IRA/401k early, but they did not let me.
Talk about draconian tax, it's the penalty for drawing SS before 59-1/2. Another horrible thing is the rigid 72(t).
Come on, it's my money. Lemme spend it, and I will pay your tax.
__________________
"Old age is the most unexpected of all things that happen to a man" -- Leon Trotsky (1879-1940)
"Those Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities Can Make You Commit Atrocities" - Voltaire (1694-1778)
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09-02-2018, 05:55 PM
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#117
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gone traveling
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 994
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pb4uski
Helena, thou doth protest too much.
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I actively protest injustice like the RMD... and not just on internet forums.
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09-02-2018, 05:55 PM
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#118
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Portland
Posts: 2,038
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Please note there are two of us with similar names, but our perspectives differ.
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09-02-2018, 06:02 PM
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#119
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sarasota, FL & Vermont
Posts: 36,361
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helena
I actively protest injustice like the RMD... and not just on internet forums.
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Only problem is that the RMD is not injust, it's just that you now don't like the deal that you signed up for long ago.
__________________
If something cannot endure laughter.... it cannot endure.
Patience is the art of concealing your impatience.
Slow and steady wins the race.
Retired Jan 2012 at age 56
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09-02-2018, 06:08 PM
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#120
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Flyover country
Posts: 25,347
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pb4uski
Only problem is that the RMD is not injust, it's just that you now don't like the deal that you signed up for long ago.
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Makes me think of the classic American short story, The Devil and Daniel Webster.
__________________
I thought growing old would take longer.
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