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Old 10-10-2015, 10:59 PM   #141
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Maybe Love is the ultimate investment. Past performance is no guarantee of future performance. Sometime you ride a bull market and have dividends or you get hit with a correction and take a haircut.
Yes, there's risk in love, read marriage, not unlike risk with investment. But unlike investment, you cannot diversify in love. Not in this country and culture anyway. Or not if you are not good at hiding your diversification "hedge".

But as haha implies, people need love but perhaps they do not have to go "all in". Instead of putting it all in that single stock (no diversification here, remember), you can keep part of your stash neutral (in cash). That means getting in love but staying single.

I went "all in" at an early age, and am still "invested" 35 years later. Guess I am lucky.
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Old 10-11-2015, 07:45 AM   #142
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Yes, there's risk in love, read marriage, not unlike risk with investment. But unlike investment, you cannot diversify in love. Not in this country and culture anyway. Or not if you are not good at hiding your diversification "hedge".

But as haha implies, people need love but perhaps they do not have to go "all in". Instead of putting it all in that single stock (no diversification here, remember), you can keep part of your stash neutral (in cash). That means getting in love but staying single.

I went "all in" at an early age, and am still "invested" 35 years later. Guess I am lucky.
Interesting analogy. I guess getting married early is like early stage investing. There is a chance to "make it back" if things go wrong. Having it "go wrong" just before or after ER might be a real disaster.
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Old 10-11-2015, 08:34 AM   #143
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As wonderful as my marriage is with DH, if he were to leave this earth before me (likely since he's 15 years older and has health issues) I won't be in a hurry to marry again. I will DEFINITELY be interested in another loving relationship. I am less interested in the obligations the state imposes when it becomes "legal". When they can tap funds I brought into the marriage for someone else's LTC expenses (assuming they've run out of funds and would otherwise need Medicaid to pay), that's scary. People in my family live into their 90s. I need to plan for that.
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Old 10-11-2015, 11:17 AM   #144
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There is also the confusion of being in lust versus being in love. The first usually remains for the first year or too, giving a chance for the latter to develop.

One thing I have observed is that some couples "let themselves go" after many years in a comfortable relationship. While others keep their appearance and behaviour at a high level as long as they can.

DW considers this to be a measure of respect for her partner. The result is that we are often judged to be at least 10 years younger than actual.
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Old 10-12-2015, 12:48 AM   #145
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Rich, much appreciate the wise words. Kids absolutely comes first, and I am betting that I can overcome the negativity of the situation.

Have some big goals next year after I pay off the lawyers. This includes a dream trip my kids and my parents to see some European cities and watch some football games there. My Ex did not allow my kids to be with my family nor travel abroad. Trying to be civil about all this, but she really was not a nice person.

Will take your advice to heart.
Be sure to get it in writing (in divorce agreement/court order) you can take the children, as if she has custody, she can/will stop you from taking the kids on vacation out of the country or even the State.
She just has to say 'no', and you are a criminal if you go ahead and travel.
Besides you will need written permission from the custodial parent to cross the border.
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Old 10-12-2015, 01:08 AM   #146
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I watched this with DB and SIL. Don't let your heart undo your head. They both thought they were so right that they should fight over the assets. I told both of them "the law suggests this, work it out and get it over with". Both, of course wanted 100% of assets. When the smoke cleared, each got about 30% and the lawyers got the rest. Each felt they'd won.

What can one say?
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Old 10-12-2015, 10:26 PM   #147
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I watched this with DB and SIL. Don't let your heart undo your head. They both thought they were so right that they should fight over the assets. I told both of them "the law suggests this, work it out and get it over with". Both, of course wanted 100% of assets. When the smoke cleared, each got about 30% and the lawyers got the rest. Each felt they'd won.

What can one say?

The best advice I got was to decide which 3 things were important to you and not go ballistic over the rest. I got uninterfered-with custody of DS, all the investments in my name and a reasonable share of the equity in the marital home. My Ex got no child support obligations (he never worked again, anyway) and a ton of stuff, which he lost after not paying the storage fees. Stuff can be replaced.
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Old 10-12-2015, 11:44 PM   #148
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I brought significant assets into my marriage, my now EX was dead broke (Actually she had a negative net worth.) We saw a huge increase in net worth though the dot com era and then the eventual bust. When I filed for divorce we had a zero gain in net worth.


I loved the look on my EX's face when she found out how little she would get.
It made getting killed in the meltdown totally worth it. Ah good times.
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Old 10-13-2015, 12:02 PM   #149
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During my divorce settlement in 1990 (the money part as she wanted and got all the "stuff"):

Her: "I saw our financial balance sheet and we have $1,000,000 in the asset account..."

Me: "That is correct"

Her: "Well, I expect one half of that...."

Me: "No problem there, but, the other side is liabilities..."

Her: "What are those?"

Me: "That is $650,000 in mortgages on both homes, ours and the rental"

Her: "Oh, so what happens to those?"

Me: "You get 1/2 of the debt too"

Her: "Hey, that's not fair....I didn't know that before I filed for divorce"

Me: "That's too bad....it is community property also."
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Old 10-13-2015, 01:00 PM   #150
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During my divorce settlement in 1990 (the money part as she wanted and got all the "stuff"):

Her: "I saw our financial balance sheet and we have $1,000,000 in the asset account..."

Me: "That is correct"

Her: "Well, I expect one half of that...."

Me: "No problem there, but, the other side is liabilities..."

Her: "What are those?"

Me: "That is $650,000 in mortgages on both homes, ours and the rental"

Her: "Oh, so what happens to those?"

Me: "You get 1/2 of the debt too"

Her: "Hey, that's not fair....I didn't know that before I filed for divorce"

Me: "That's too bad....it is community property also."
That sounds like my deal too. I paid all liabilities(including mortgages,eventually) while she got all the assets, except my career. Wait, come to think of it, she got a piece of that too, through a kind of notional equity in me. Ie every time I got a raise she got more alimony. She owned a piece of me. Maybe 15-20% I figure. The only way I can "buy that piece back" is to purchase her an annuity to replace the alimony. Will be worth it.
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Old 10-13-2015, 02:11 PM   #151
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Sorry to hear. My situation:

Divorced one year ago. Cost me 7 figures + 8 years alimony and 13 years child support.

Immediately felt relief to be out of hopeless marriage.

Met my current girlfriend 5 months later. We just hit 7 month anniversary. Wasn't looking for love, but I guess that's when we tend to find it unexpectedly. Had the talk with new girl that I don't want to ever be legally married, but at some point I'd be willing to provide the security of marriage, i.e. some sort of financial arrangement. Reason for this is I had prenup AND postnup with ex, and ex's lawyers immediately started looking for loopholes in those docs.

Currently friendly with ex and we are co-parenting much better than when we were married. I do a lot of " goodwill-building" by helping her fix her internet, change lightbulbs, hang pictures, etc.

Advice: the lawyers are in it for a "win" but you'll be tied to the ex via the kids for decades. Therefore, know when to end a fight and give in so you can move toward a functional and amicable relationship with her once the immediate angers dissipates. Friends are now seeking me out to mediate their divorces based on this model of not trying to destroy each other.

Best of luck. You're not alone.


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Old 10-13-2015, 04:11 PM   #152
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One of the final conversations with my Ex, she informed me that she wanted a divorce and she proceeded to list all the things she wanted. She stuck her finger in my face and said "You don't want to go to war with me". All I was thinking was "oh reeeaalllyy" while I maintained a placid expression. Next day I filed and got the meanest lawyer in the county.


Lesson: If you have to fight, its best to get the first lick in.
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Old 10-13-2015, 04:40 PM   #153
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After a long and bitter divorce, and long term emotional damage to our daughter, ex-wife passes away 20 years later due to complications from a stroke caused by not taking care of herself, heavy drinking, poor eating habits, etc.

She never remarried as she could not find someone to pay her way given her lifestyle, so she blew all the cash I supplied into the ground and the paid for home I bought her went into major dis-repair. Once the child support was over, she essentially was broke (years earlier I bought out her alimony - big plus for me at the time, but a large chunk of money).

The house I bought her was now willed to our daughter (only child alive) and all she wanted to do was fix it up and sell it. So we (both of us together) turned it into a father/daughter project and rebuilt the place - new roof, new siding, new doors, some new windows, new floor tile, carpet, new toilets, sinks, all new paint, etc). I guess we dropped $40K in it and only contracted out the roof and siding. We both worked as a team for a good 6 months. Then we listed it and sold it for a $40K profit of which I gave to her.

All the stuff inside that she took from the divorce was either sold or given to DD.

So ended that chapter in our lives. It's never fun and it will be over sometime in the future.
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Old 10-13-2015, 05:34 PM   #154
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After a long and bitter divorce, and long term emotional damage to our daughter, ex-wife passes away 20 years later due to complications from a stroke caused by not taking care of herself, heavy drinking, poor eating habits, etc.

She never remarried as she could not find someone to pay her way given her lifestyle, so she blew all the cash I supplied into the ground and the paid for home I bought her went into major dis-repair. Once the child support was over, she essentially was broke (years earlier I bought out her alimony - big plus for me at the time, but a large chunk of money).

The house I bought her was now willed to our daughter (only child alive) and all she wanted to do was fix it up and sell it. So we (both of us together) turned it into a father/daughter project and rebuilt the place - new roof, new siding, new doors, some new windows, new floor tile, carpet, new toilets, sinks, all new paint, etc). I guess we dropped $40K in it and only contracted out the roof and siding. We both worked as a team for a good 6 months. Then we listed it and sold it for a $40K profit of which I gave to her.

All the stuff inside that she took from the divorce was either sold or given to DD.

So ended that chapter in our lives. It's never fun and it will be over sometime in the future.
Powerful story. Although, I would never wish harm on anyone, I would stand to benefit greatly if my x passed away, at least before I bought out the alimony through an annuity. It would be very traumatic for my daughter though. Accordingly, I am quite happy with the status quo.
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Old 10-13-2015, 06:33 PM   #155
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I watched my boyfriend suffer with the financial and emotional burdens of divorce and a difficult ex during the first 8 years of our relationship. It was awful at times, but yes, it does end. I remember the day he opened the letter that said his child support had ended. Took several weeks before it really sunk in, that his income had nearly doubled!

It's awful to say, but the cards are so stacked against you guys in this that whenever I read stories about guys offing their exes I have to wonder what she's putting him through. No excuse for that of course, but still.
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Old 10-14-2015, 03:55 PM   #156
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It's awful to say, but the cards are so stacked against you guys in this that whenever I read stories about guys offing their exes I have to wonder what she's putting him through. No excuse for that of course, but still.
After 29 years in law enforcement I came to the conclusion that very often, the victim in a homicide had it coming. Doesn't make it right of course or the proper action, but certainly understandable.
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Old 10-14-2015, 05:56 PM   #157
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Men almost always do worse in a divorce and they also do worse when jail time is being handed out.

When is the last time a couple committed a crime and a deal was struck with the man to give evidence against the woman for a reduced sentence rather than the other way around?
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Old 10-14-2015, 07:53 PM   #158
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And remember that money never buys happiness.
But it can buy me a boat and a truck to pull it.
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Old 10-14-2015, 11:31 PM   #159
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Met my current girlfriend 5 months later. We just hit 7 month anniversary. Wasn't looking for love, but I guess that's when we tend to find it unexpectedly. Had the talk with new girl that I don't want to ever be legally married, but at some point I'd be willing to provide the security of marriage, i.e. some sort of financial arrangement.
This is very interesting, and not unusual. But how many women have ever offered you the "security if a marriage via a financial arrangement?" I know I have never had any of these offers.

Why does a man trading his sexual input and caring for a woman's sexual input and caring so often require the man to pay boot to close the deal? What ever became of dowry?

Ha
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Old 10-14-2015, 11:48 PM   #160
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One of the final conversations with my Ex, she informed me that she wanted a divorce and she proceeded to list all the things she wanted. She stuck her finger in my face and said "You don't want to go to war with me". All I was thinking was "oh reeeaalllyy" while I maintained a placid expression. Next day I filed and got the meanest lawyer in the county.


Lesson: If you have to fight, its best to get the first lick in.
First punch in the nose stops the bully all the time. For me, when I finally broke something in me changed and all of a sudden I changed to a new person. Bam, no more Mr. nice guy.

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