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Old 02-07-2014, 06:52 PM   #21
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Another one who does not understand the hostility towards people who are living life on their own terms. That kind of attitude says a lot about those expressing hostility and nothing about the ERs.

FWIW, I have had zero hostility to my early retirement. Reactions have ranged from "I'm happy for you and wish I could do it" to "you'll be bored" and "what will you do all day?" and "you are so brave" but no one has expressed anything that comes even close to hostility. Even my sister who has made some very poor financial decisions is cheering me on.

I do know a few other people who have FIREd and one of my former partners and close friends (about my age) recently decided to pull the plug on his legal career and FIRE as well. I also know plenty of people who seem to be unable to move on from jobs that they frequently complain about but no longer need.
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Old 02-08-2014, 01:22 AM   #22
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I agree and think it's a bit disingenuous. They are working part time, just at a less stressful, pace, enjoying themselves. I consider them semi-retired.

I hope to leave the rat race by the end of this year and maybe work part time from a warmer climate, from my sunny verandah instead of this windowless office. If I'm working, even a couple of months a year, I will refer to myself as semi-retired.....
I almost refer to it as a distinction without much of a difference. From one perspective, I've worked for more than 40 hours a week for 30 years, so less than 20 hours (or even 30) seems like retirement. To me.
If one defines retirement as never working at all all year, I see the point, but being dead is retired, too.
My grandfather "retired" to his cabin in Colorado that he built himself when I was seven, when he was 60, but still worked off and on, on his own terms, particularly when was in Oklahoma during the winter months, until he was 68, give or take. I consider him "retired" and he did too, although he was used to working 50+ hours a week back in the day.
I think retirement is a bit of a state of mind, although I get your drift.
I'm planning on "semi-retiring" for a few years in 12-18 months and my grandfather, myself, and my wife will call it "retiring." It will feel that way to me, at least.
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Old 02-08-2014, 09:07 AM   #23
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I'll admit that I have some doubts about the Kaderli's accounting conventions; they surely make some money from their website and books. But they appear to be living life on their own terms, so it's all good. However, even if you doubt that they really can live as they say they do, that doesn't explain the open hostility exhibited by some of the commenters to the very idea of early retirement.
While there may be a slight question in my mind about their "accounting conventions", my biggest fear is that people fail to look at things in context (regarding their lives and budgets) and historical perspective (regarding investment returns).

The Kaderlis "retired" in, what, the late 80s/early 90s? That was a pretty damn good time to ER and watch an index portfolio zoom to the moon.

Repeat that trick in 1999 or 2006 with their initial portfolio adjusted for inflation and see how you are 5 or 10 years later, even if you can swing a low cost lifestyle house sitting, etc.

I have no issues with the Kaderlis living a very low cost lifestyle - and part of me hopes I can be just 1/10 as resourceful as they are in living a very enriching, active lifestyle traveling all over the place on a very low cost - but there are also many people who would enjoy at least some stability/home base aspect, rather than being perpetual travelers. I'm sure if you took a poll, very few would ever say that they would want to be a CONSTANT perpetual traveler, roaming around the world for 30-40 years non-stop, with maybe a few months here or there as a "temporary home base". Sure, some would love some travel and adventure for a few weeks...maybe even a few months.

But after years and years of it, I'd say nearly all people would want some place to return home to. With the Kaderli's inferred low lifestyle budget, that's simply not possible, unless you have a very large stash that can afford to have stuff in storage or maintain a place while you travel the globe for years at a time, and then afford to re-establish a home base in the States once you are done traveling (and imagine if they had to re-establish a home base in the states by buying individual health insurance at market rates after traveling for 20 years. Talk about a potential black swan to the budget! Not to mention car insurance being insanely expensive for someone who has not had constant car insurance coverage)
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Old 02-08-2014, 10:02 AM   #24
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While there may be a slight question in my mind about their "accounting conventions", my biggest fear is that people fail to look at things in context (regarding their lives and budgets) and historical perspective (regarding investment returns).

The Kaderlis "retired" in, what, the late 80s/early 90s? That was a pretty damn good time to ER and watch an index portfolio zoom to the moon.

Repeat that trick in 1999 or 2006 with their initial portfolio adjusted for inflation and see how you are 5 or 10 years later, even if you can swing a low cost lifestyle house sitting, etc.

I have no issues with the Kaderlis living a very low cost lifestyle - and part of me hopes I can be just 1/10 as resourceful as they are in living a very enriching, active lifestyle traveling all over the place on a very low cost - but there are also many people who would enjoy at least some stability/home base aspect, rather than being perpetual travelers. I'm sure if you took a poll, very few would ever say that they would want to be a CONSTANT perpetual traveler, roaming around the world for 30-40 years non-stop, with maybe a few months here or there as a "temporary home base". Sure, some would love some travel and adventure for a few weeks...maybe even a few months.

But after years and years of it, I'd say nearly all people would want some place to return home to. With the Kaderli's inferred low lifestyle budget, that's simply not possible, unless you have a very large stash that can afford to have stuff in storage or maintain a place while you travel the globe for years at a time, and then afford to re-establish a home base in the States once you are done traveling (and imagine if they had to re-establish a home base in the states by buying individual health insurance at market rates after traveling for 20 years. Talk about a potential black swan to the budget! Not to mention car insurance being insanely expensive for someone who has not had constant car insurance coverage)

Seems like they plan not to come home:

"What about the possibility of needing long-term care? “In a foreign country, you can have nurses and doctors come in to see you. You can hire someone to do your shopping. We don’t have to spend $70,000 a year,” Akaisha said. “In Mexico, there are lots of places you can live in with Wi-Fi, maid service, your meals included, laundry — for $1,500 or $2,000 a month. That’s reasonable."
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Old 02-08-2014, 12:23 PM   #25
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I almost refer to it as a distinction without much of a difference. From one perspective, I've worked for more than 40 hours a week for 30 years, so less than 20 hours (or even 30) seems like retirement. To me.
If one defines retirement as never working at all all year, I see the point, but being dead is retired, too.
My grandfather "retired" to his cabin in Colorado that he built himself when I was seven, when he was 60, but still worked off and on, on his own terms, particularly when was in Oklahoma during the winter months, until he was 68, give or take. I consider him "retired" and he did too, although he was used to working 50+ hours a week back in the day.
I think retirement is a bit of a state of mind, although I get your drift.
I'm planning on "semi-retiring" for a few years in 12-18 months and my grandfather, myself, and my wife will call it "retiring." It will feel that way to me, at least.
I think the difference is, as far as I know, you are not planning on selling books, CDs and videos telling other people they can retire at 38, and how easy it is, anyone can do it. They also don't mention the amount they had saved in inflation adjusted dollars, that they apparently had sequence of returns risk on their side while others may not, or the fact that they have a well marketed publishing business.

I know many people in publishing who would quite enjoy the fame and national exposure the Kaderlies enjoy. This is not an easily replicable income source for 99+% of early retirees / ex-pats. If they had digital nomad jobs like python programming or web design, a lap top skill others could duplicate just by going to school, I'd find their claims of anyone can do it a bit more credible.

Usually it takes significant amounts of marketing and self promotion to achieve their level of brand awareness, not to mention the efforts they put into developing their multimedia publications.
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Old 02-08-2014, 04:44 PM   #26
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The brief article in Money Watch about the Kaderlies reminds me of Paul and Vicki TerHorst, a couple who retired in their late 30's and have lived a similar lifestyle. (They are quite a bit older now.) Most on this site have probably heard of them, but for anyone who hasn't, here is a link to their web site:
https://sites.google.com/site/paulvicgroup/
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