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Old 02-05-2014, 08:08 AM   #1
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ER's we know.

Now here’s some ER’s we know.

“Meet Billy and Akaisha Kaderli. They’re both 61 years old, and they retired when they were 38 more than two decades ago. Ever since, they’ve been traveling the world, visiting places as far-flung as Laos, Thailand, Guatemala and Belize.”

8 secrets for success from early retirees - Andrea Coombes' Working Retirement - MarketWatch
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Old 02-05-2014, 12:11 PM   #2
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Interesting to read the comments to that article. Some people are quite angry about the fact that the Kaderli's have escaped the rat race.
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Old 02-05-2014, 12:46 PM   #3
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From the article - "Naysayers will include in their budgets a replacement car, roof repairs, long-term-care costs, she said. “These people are just so afraid. They need to have every single guarantee — or people like us are liars,” she said. “It’s actually very doable.”

Right, because everyone knows if you own a house and cars, roofs and cars never have to be replaced and no one, you or your parents, ever need to spend money on long term care? It is one thing to explain how to plan for these expenses and do it in a low cost way, but to ignoring these types of expenses completely goes back to selling the dream and the e-books, not the reality.

If you want to live in a low cost country for long term care, that is an option, but if you don't have a long term care back up plan for the U.S., it is a one way trip. I am not sure I would want to be in a nursing home in Ecuador when I'm 80 and rarely if ever see my adult kids with jobs and lives in the U.S. or some other first world country.
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Old 02-05-2014, 01:11 PM   #4
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From the article - "Naysayers will include in their budgets a replacement car, roof repairs, long-term-care costs, she said. “These people are just so afraid. They need to have every single guarantee — or people like us are liars,” she said. “It’s actually very doable.”

Right, because everyone knows if you own a house and cars, roofs and cars never have to be replaced and no one, you or your parents, ever need to spend money on long term care? It is one thing to explain how to plan for these expenses and do it in a low cost way, but to ignoring these types of expenses completely goes back to selling the dream and the e-books, not the reality.

If you want to live in a low cost country for long term care, that is an option, but if you don't have a long term care back up plan for the U.S., it is a one way trip. I am not sure I would want to be in a nursing home in Ecuador when I'm 80 and rarely if ever see my adult kids with jobs and lives in the U.S. or some other first world country.
I think it's best to interpret a comment like that in the context of the subject of the article. For a retiree who owns a home and a car, then these costs would need to be included in a budget (if it's going to have any hope of being realistic.) I took her comment to mean that there are lifestyles that don't require the retiree to factor in these costs.

Different strokes for different folks. Even if we wouldn't want to emulate their lifestyles, it can be interesting to read about the variety of different ways to make ER work.
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Old 02-05-2014, 01:26 PM   #5
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I think it's best to interpret a comment like that in the context of the subject of the article. For a retiree who owns a home and a car, then these costs would need to be included in a budget (if it's going to have any hope of being realistic.) I took her comment to mean that there are lifestyles that don't require the retiree to factor in these costs.

Different strokes for different folks.
Well, I don't think anyone here has called a person renting a home who didn't budget for a roof replacement a liar.

But then you do have to allow for rent in the budget, and the cost the roof or other repair costs will usually be reflected in the rent price.

So you pay for the roof one way or another, unless you live some place like an RV or straw bale house that doesn't have a traditional roof.

And sure long term care costs are going to be cheaper in Ecuador. But for people with adult kids and grand kids in a first world country thousands of miles and $1K plus airfare per person away that could be a pretty lonely option.
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Old 02-05-2014, 01:37 PM   #6
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But then you do have to allow for rent in the budget, and the cost the roof or other repair costs will usually be reflected in the rent price.
Right, and that is what she's effectively saying - that lifestyles which don't involve owning a home don't require the retiree to budget for replacement roofs, for example, as that is included in the rent (for a renter).

Her comment about being thought a liar, I took as a reference to how some of their naysayers don't think it's possible to live such a lifestyle on a relatively modest income.
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Old 02-05-2014, 01:45 PM   #7
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I'll admit that I have some doubts about the Kaderli's accounting conventions; they surely make some money from their website and books. But they appear to be living life on their own terms, so it's all good. However, even if you doubt that they really can live as they say they do, that doesn't explain the open hostility exhibited by some of the commenters to the very idea of early retirement.
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Old 02-05-2014, 01:48 PM   #8
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She didn't say that you don't need to budget for a car or roof if you rent and use public transportation. I get that and I think most people would, too.

She said people who didn't budget for these did so because they were "just so afraid." No, people budget for these items if they own cars and houses because they have a good handle on what their actual expenses will be.

I have no doubt you can live very cheaply in a third world country, especially if you aren't really retired and work part time house sitting, blogging, writing books, selling CDs, selling videos, etc.

But that is really not being retired at 38 forever on $500K, at least not according to the dictionary definition of the word. It is having a nice savings cushion, being self employed and living in a low cost of living country. If they made a living publishing Bento books, CDs and videos, they'd be considered self employed publishers, not retirees.
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Old 02-05-2014, 01:49 PM   #9
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I'll admit that I have some doubts about the Kaderli's accounting conventions; they surely make some money from their website and books. But they appear to be living life on their own terms, so it's all good. However, even if you doubt that they really can live as they say they do, that doesn't explain the open hostility exhibited by some of the commenters to the very idea of early retirement.
+1. Some people are apparently very opposed to the concept of individual freedom.
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Old 02-05-2014, 02:09 PM   #10
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+1. Some people are apparently very opposed to the concept of individual freedom.

Way too many...
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Old 02-05-2014, 02:59 PM   #11
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[QUOTE=Gumby;1411713 However, even if you doubt that they really can live as they say they do, that doesn't explain the open hostility exhibited by some of the commenters to the very idea of early retirement.[/QUOTE]

+1

I was surprised by the very angry response to the idea of early retirement. It certainly makes me reconsider how open I want to be with people when I do early retire. I think I'd be better off telling people I work the night shift at a whore house, than telling them I'm early retired. Work of any kind is far more respected, than "loafing around".
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Old 02-05-2014, 03:05 PM   #12
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+1
I was surprised by the very angry response to the idea of early retirement. It certainly makes me reconsider how open I want to be with people when I do early retire.
Well, if it's any consolation, the hostility is not confined to ER's. The comments sections underneath articles on most news sites are packed with inane and hostile comments. Occasionally, I find the sheer idiotic nature of some such remarks entertaining but mostly, I find them a bit depressing and so ignore them.
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Old 02-05-2014, 03:09 PM   #13
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Most of the negativity re: ER's is probably from the folks who blew all their money and won't be able to retire. Early or otherwise. Just a little "pissed off at the world 'cause I made sub-optimal choices" song and dance.
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Old 02-06-2014, 05:37 AM   #14
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ER's we know.

I'm delighted to see that they are still enjoying life on their terms and encouraging others to do the same.
Thankfully, they seem to have pretty thick skin about their critics and are still willing to put their perspective out there.
Very refreshing in our over-cautious world!
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Old 02-06-2014, 08:45 AM   #15
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+1

I was surprised by the very angry response to the idea of early retirement. It certainly makes me reconsider how open I want to be with people when I do early retire. I think I'd be better off telling people I work the night shift at a whore house, than telling them I'm early retired. Work of any kind is far more respected, than "loafing around".
I suspect what provokes resentment is the implication that it's within easy reach to anyone who wants it. Marketing the escapist dream is the agenda so there's no getting around it. If you emphasize the sacrifices that are needed in a non-condescending manner, then I think the message becomes less offensive, but then so does its mass appeal.

Those who cash out early around here I believe are more likely to be met with pity than with anger. Giving up the dream, career euthanasia, call it what you will. I believe this is part of why most who do it will leave town, the exceptions being those who reached a point that few were able to attain even at full retirement age.

I imagine a greater exposure comes in the form of family and friends who may be struggling at some point in the future. In some circles those who can afford to not work are expected to step in ahead of any public assistance, and in some cases this is law, not custom. I envision this as being far more expensive than the occasional big ticket home repair or totaled car, although I have no idea how to budget for it. I would agree that unless you're in the business of selling the dream, keeping a low profile is an excellent idea.
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Old 02-06-2014, 10:10 AM   #16
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I imagine a greater exposure comes in the form of family and friends who may be struggling at some point in the future. In some circles those who can afford to not work are expected to step in ahead of any public assistance, and in some cases this is law, not custom. I envision this as being far more expensive than the occasional big ticket home repair or totaled car, although I have no idea how to budget for it. I would agree that unless you're in the business of selling the dream, keeping a low profile is an excellent idea.
I've already run into this with my family. I have a high paying job; my sisters don't. They have kids; I don't. I unfortunately let it slip last year that my wife and I had enough to retire and we're thinking of doing it soon. They let my mother know all the time that they are barely making it financially, and she sends them money, out of her very large stash. She reduced the cash gifts to my wife and I by half, saying she needed to support the grandkids in college. I don't want to sound sexist, but in my family, if you were a female, the males took care of you financially. At least I don't have to support the rest of my family, but from now on around my family, I'm going to be as poor as a church mouse when I speak of my finances. When mom dies, a lot of her stash is covered by a trust, but there will be a family cat fight over the rest.

I personally think you really do have to be careful about airing you finances, and plans for early retirement around people. A lot of people will not be happy for you. I am happy I have reached FI on my own, but I think I'm going to drive a beater car, and get my clothes from Good Will.
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Old 02-06-2014, 10:44 AM   #17
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Good to hear the Kaderli's are still going strong.

Cutting expenses in the good ol USA - AND adopting the mantle of a 'Cheap SOB' was good clean fun(in my own mind).

But given my ER experience(past 20 yrs) at this point in history, RMD, Mr Market(all praise to the Bogleheads), age 70, causes some serious rethinking.

Taxes quadruple(told ya I'm cheap) and not going to take it with me(not getting any younger), spending more.

I like that the Kaderli's have been steady on for a long time.

More than one way to skin a cat. I bet there as many variations of lifestyle as ER posters and individual variations as time marches on.

1946 The Razor's Edge was on TCM last night. Entirely different movie when first seen in my working decades than now in 21st year of ER.

heh heh heh -
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Old 02-06-2014, 01:09 PM   #18
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I still like my ER lifestyle better but I would not write a book or have a web site devoted to it. They have to take the criticism when they go for public attention. I wish them well though.

For me, I just speak English and my other language attempts were painful. I would not feel comfy living in another country but then again, some would call California another country. Latin American countries tend to go through instabilities every so often. Ditto for countries like Thailand. I'd rather just be a tourist and pay the higher costs.

I agree with daylatedollarshort that it is a one way trip if you don't have enough savings.

I never read the comments following those articles.
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Old 02-06-2014, 01:50 PM   #19
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I have no doubt you can live very cheaply in a third world country, especially if you aren't really retired and work part time house sitting, blogging, writing books, selling CDs, selling videos, etc.

But that is really not being retired at 38 forever on $500K, at least not according to the dictionary definition of the word. It is having a nice savings cushion, being self employed and living in a low cost of living country. If they made a living publishing Bento books, CDs and videos, they'd be considered self employed publishers, not retirees.
I agree and think it's a bit disingenuous. They are working part time, just at a less stressful, pace, enjoying themselves. I consider them semi-retired.

I hope to leave the rat race by the end of this year and maybe work part time from a warmer climate, from my sunny verandah instead of this windowless office. If I'm working, even a couple of months a year, I will refer to myself as semi-retired.....
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Old 02-06-2014, 02:31 PM   #20
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Panajachel, the Guatemalan town they are living in according to the article, is pretty cool and is good for tourists. We spent a few days there a couple of years ago.
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