Experiences with financially struggling government?

[Bamaman]

I graduated college in Memphis and stayed 18 years before leaving. It was like I was a bird let out of a cage. You know, you can die walking the streets of that town.

You can even more easily die in Chicago, as it's about as dangerous of a city as there is. I saw a map of where the murders happen and it's not all southside. It's west of downtown and scattered everywhere--except the far western suburbs.

I used to work for a Chicago company, and have always noted housing is twice the cost of housing in major southern cities. And property taxes and state income taxes are outrageous. My friend had a 2800 square foot normal house in Napierville, and property taxes were $10K per year.

But if you think taxes are high there, you ought to see what they are in Wisconsin. A co-worker lived in a 1100 square foot 30's craftsman house on a 45' lot in Kenosha, and the property taxes were $5500 per year. At least Wisconsin has faced their fiscal woes somewhat, but it's another unaffordable place to live. Workers there live in ILL.

[JoeWras]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Badger Illinois has a clause in the state constitution that prohibits cutting state pensions (sucks to be a tax paying non-pensioned citizen of that state.).

Blame me, or at least my now deceased mother.

She was one of the (many) citizen participants in the 1970 convention. Not a delegate, but part of the greater citizenry who reviewed it and met with the delegates. I remember having a lot of draft constitutions we used as scrap paper.

I think the key is it was 1970. This was halcyon days of pensions. It had to part of the thinking. Of course, times change.

[socca]

I lived in a cute 1930s Craftsman house (900 sq ft & one BA!!) in the 1990s in suburban Cook county. The property taxes were reasonable back then.

My primary beef with IL these days is slow payment of income tax refunds compared to (for example) ND. Of course, this is a minor problem compared to the potential reduction or loss of a pension.

[Texas Proud]

Of course they cannot cut the budget... it is not in the DNA of a politician...


Look at the federal gvmt with the sequester... Congress critters were pulling out their hair just to 'cut' $20 or so billion out of the budget of over $1 trillion... and this was not a real cut but a reduction in the increase...

Every dollar spent has someone behind it that wants to keep it going and will not let it go... you just have the same problem at the state level....

[Koolau]

IL has kicked the can down the road for so long that they are now up against a wall. I'm sure they'll continue to kick, even though the can bounces back in their faces. If I lived in IL I would be moving out pronto. Detroit was somewhat manageable because of its relatively smaller size. I fear that only the Feds can save IL - which means we all pay for their mistakes. Naturally, YMMV.

[JoeWras]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koolau IL has kicked the can down the road for so long that they are now up against a wall. I'm sure they'll continue to kick, even though the can bounces back in their faces. If I lived in IL I would be moving out pronto. Detroit was somewhat manageable because of its relatively smaller size. I fear that only the Feds can save IL - which means we all pay for their mistakes. Naturally, YMMV.

Which will ramp up the national "discussion" to an even higher level.

[1-31-18]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marita40 I grew up in a Chicago burb and couldn't wait to leave. Love my adopted state of MN. Chicago is less than an hour plane ride away and fun to visit on occasion.

Comparing Chicago to "a Chicago burb" is like comparing Chicago to Houston, as another poster did. In each case they have little in common.

[1-31-18]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pj.mask I don't entirely see it the same way. Houston has a relative low COL. A new 2200 sq ft townhome can be had for 300's in the downtown area. Houston has among the best food and shopping of anywhere I have been. Plenty of events and park. You could move to the suburbs and get houses around 200k in good school districts with events and culture (and 30 min drive to downtown). If you compare California, NOLA, or the north east - Houston is comparable for things to do and cheaper on cost. Sure there are variations but the point being you can usually move somewhere much more economical without giving up a lot.

Where in the world can I get 22 miles of public access waterfront, complete with bike paths, tennis courts, golf course, bird sanctuaries, arboretum, aquarium, natural history museum, local history museum, world-class art museum, beaches with restaurants and bars ... across the street from my city home and within walking distance of world-class restaurants and retail?

Answer: not Houston, indeed not anywhere. Daniel Burnham, who planned all of this, would have been run out of town in Houston, which infamously has no zoning. Chicago is classified by demographers as a global alpha city and I've just itemized a few reasons why. There are hundreds of other places to live with attractive amenities, but none with this constellation of attractions immediately accessible to the public.

As with other high-priced locations, those who can't afford it on an after-tax basis, or who simply don't value the amenities of a global alpha city, are wise to live elsewhere.

[ERD50]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bamaman ... You can even more easily die in Chicago, as it's about as dangerous of a city as there is. I saw a map of where the murders happen and it's not all south-side. It's west of downtown and scattered everywhere--except the far western suburbs. ...

That's not true. The violence is much more prevalent in certain neighborhoods, some of those are west of downtown (and people who want to stay safe know that and don't go there). Garfield Park, Englewood, Austin, Lawndale... The Loop, South Loop, Near North, and North & NW areas are far safer areas.

You don't hear people talk about murders in St. Louis, Baltimore, Kansas City, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Atlanta, Philadelphia, Memphis, Buffalo, D.C, Stockton, Miami, Milwaukee, Pittsburgh, do you? And they all have higher murder rates than Chicago (data from years 2010-2015)! And Indianapolis (yes, Indianapolis!) is right behind Chicago.

Since much of that is concentrated in those specific neighborhoods, it stands to reason that Chicago must be much safer than those other cities if you stay in the better places (assuming those other cities aren't as concentrated as Chicago, not sure about that).

I sure wish they could clean up the violence in those places, it must be terrible to live there.

-ERD50

[haha]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERD50 We won't be moving to a warmer climate, I hate heat/humidity. Florida is not a dream for me, but a nightmare ( except in February)! To each their own. -ERD50

If coastal California is too expensive, hard to beat Colorado, or Arizona Hi-Country like Flagstaff. Reno is splendid also, and good access to San Francisco too.

A couple guys in my condo building live late fall and winter in Las Vegas, then come back here for the late spring/summer. If I felt comfortable financially to do this, it might be a very nice way to live. I'd have to take GF, or I might some back to find some other dude parking in her drive.

Ha

[haha]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERD50 You don't hear people talk about murders in St. Louis, Baltimore, Kansas City, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Atlanta, Philadelphia, Memphis, Buffalo, D.C, Stockton, Miami, Milwaukee, Pittsburgh, do you? And they all have higher murder rates than Chicago (data from years 2010-2015)! And Indianapolis (yes, Indianapolis!) is right behind Chicago. Since much of that is concentrated in those specific neighborhoods, it stands to reason that Chicago must be much safer than those other cities if you stay in the better places (assuming those other cities aren't as concentrated as Chicago, not sure about that). I sure wish they could clean up the violence in those places, it must be terrible to live there. -ERD50

You don't understand. People do talk about murder, assault, rape in those other cities you mentioned. And of course violent crime is concentrated in certain areas in all these cities. Crime tends to be more common where the criminals are-Duh! You can get shot anywhere, but some places are way more likely than others.

If some guy gets shot in River Oaks, cherchez la femme.

Ha

[W2R]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERD50 I sure wish they could clean up the violence in those places, it must be terrible to live there.

Crime is the only thing that could eventually drive us from the New Orleans area. It's indeed terrible in the city. Very few murderers are ever identified or caught.

[ERD50]

Quote:

Originally Posted by haha You don't understand. People do talk about murder, assault, rape in those other cities you mentioned. And of course violent crime is concentrated in certain areas in all these cities. Crime tends to be more common where the criminals are-Duh! You can get shot anywhere, but some places are way more likely than others. If some guy gets shot in River Oaks, cherchez la femme. Ha

I understand. Many people are bad with numbers and statistics. Large numbers, regardless of rates and context, get many people excited.

Quote:

Originally Posted by W2R Quote: Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post I sure wish they could clean up the violence in those places, it must be terrible to live there. Crime is the only thing that could eventually drive us from the New Orleans area. It's indeed terrible in the city. Very few murderers are ever identified or caught.

My wording was vague, sorry. By "those places", I really meant the bad areas of Chicago (or any other place with concentrated violence like that). The per capita rates of those areas of Chicago must be extremely high, and it must be a scary place to live. For places like New Orleans, with higher crime rates than Chicago, I don't know if there is more crime in general in the "safe" neighborhoods, or if it is more or less concentrated than Chicago. I don't feel "un-safe" when I'm in Chicago, as I know my way around. I'm "on guard" and at a little higher "aware of my surroundings" than I would be in most suburban settings, but that's partially due to the fact you know there might be pick-pockets preying on tourists. And some of the street people may have mental issues, but it's rare for any of them to approach you, other than to hold out the change cup.

I live in a sleepy area, actually one of the lowest crime rates in the State. Though we never let down our guard, anything can happen, but it is a nice feeling.

-ERD50

[pj.mask]

I'm not saying Houston is the best - I will say it is one of the better options for an engineer in oil. I lived in NOLA for 3 years and as an adult in Houston for 5.5 years. A post earlier discussed COL doesn't always match to quality and between these two cities it depends what you value.

Without getting into the retirement location section - Houston has new/newer construction (Good efficient housing) loads of restaurants, lots of shopping options (3rd best China town in US, Vietnamese area, Indian area). NOLA has more outdoor events (around drinking, food, and music) and is a smaller city where everything is close if you live in the city.

With Houston, traffic can be bad if you don't have flexibility. My 16 mile commute is 30 min (each way) but I have to leave before 6:30 am and 4:10 pm.

If you want choices and newer housing it will cost more in NOLA. If you want to go to outdoor festivals on a regular basis - Houston will have more drive time and less options.

[1-31-18]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koolau If I lived in IL I would be moving out pronto.... Naturally, YMMV.

That's pretty hostile. But you're right that YMMV. Mileage varies according to a a great number of socioeconomic factors not politic to mention publicly.

For example, I used to live in the most affluent neighborhood in all of NC -- and I moved out as fast as I could. Chicago in contrast suits me just fine. To cite just one reason why, there are more world-class museums that are biking distance from my home in Chicago than there are in the entirety of the Tar Heel State. And I can work and socialize with business leaders here without being asked constantly about religion (keep it to yourself, please), about which college basketball team I follow (honest answer: if you really care about that, you are telling me more about yourself than you realize) and about whether I prefer my BBQ eastern versus western (honest answer: I've tried them both and prefer heart-healthy food).

YMMV.

[Mulligan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walt34 Not all of them. I retired from a county job and the pension is well over 90% funded. Someone else here posted that their state government pension was fully funded. But that makes for a boring news story so you never hear about those.

Put me in the camp with you Walt. My pension system actually had the foresight to put our contributions and the equally matched ones in a trust monthly with real cash, not promises to pay later, and then forget to do so. And it just posted it has returned 11% last year so the funding status will go up. Nice to know they also fudge the numbers with an assumed 26% contribution rate when its actually been 29% for over a decade now.

[Blue Collar Guy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERD50 That's not true. The violence is much more prevalent in certain neighborhoods, some of those are west of downtown (and people who want to stay safe know that and don't go there). Garfield Park, Englewood, Austin, Lawndale... The Loop, South Loop, Near North, and North & NW areas are far safer areas. You don't hear people talk about murders in St. Louis, Baltimore, Kansas City, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Atlanta, Philadelphia, Memphis, Buffalo, D.C, Stockton, Miami, Milwaukee, Pittsburgh, do you? And they all have higher murder rates than Chicago (data from years 2010-2015)! And Indianapolis (yes, Indianapolis!) is right behind Chicago. Since much of that is concentrated in those specific neighborhoods, it stands to reason that Chicago must be much safer than those other cities if you stay in the better places (assuming those other cities aren't as concentrated as Chicago, not sure about that). I sure wish they could clean up the violence in those places, it must be terrible to live there. -ERD50

Thanks , ill add this to my do not visit list.

[socca]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1-31-18 Comparing Chicago to "a Chicago burb" is like comparing Chicago to Houston, as another poster did. In each case they have little in common.

Agree. During my 11 years in suburban Chicago, I went downtown about half-a-dozen times, feeling like a tourist each time (which I was).

[JoeWras]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1-31-18 That's pretty hostile. But you're right that YMMV. Mileage varies according to a a great number of socioeconomic factors not politic to mention publicly. For example, I used to live in the most affluent neighborhood in all of NC -- and I moved out as fast as I could. Chicago in contrast suits me just fine. To cite just one reason why, there are more world-class museums that are biking distance from my home in Chicago than there are in the entirety of the Tar Heel State. And I can work and socialize with business leaders here without being asked constantly about religion (keep it to yourself, please), about which college basketball team I follow (honest answer: if you really care about that, you are telling me more about yourself than you realize) and about whether I prefer my BBQ eastern versus western (honest answer: I've tried them both and prefer heart-healthy food). YMMV.

I had to laugh at your post, as someone who grew up in Chicago and now lives in NC.

Just wait. You'll have equivalent "queries" to deal with in Chicago, like what ingredients make a TRUE Chicago hot dog. Surprise! There isn't complete agreement!

[samclem]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1-31-18 As with other high-priced locations, those who can't afford it on an after-tax basis, or who simply don't value the amenities of a global alpha city, are wise to live elsewhere.

How are the public schools in this "alpha city"? Pretty close to "omega." Is public order pretty good, or are things on a low simmer poised to explode with the next video bombshell from the streets? Oak Park is about 3 miles from West Garfield Park, I do not know how the residents of Oak Park and other relatively safe areas can believe they will remain safe long-term from the turmoil spawned in the disfunctional parts of town.
Anyway, if a citizenry wants pricey public amenities, and they want to pay for them, that is great. Clearly a lot of stuff has been bought but the payment has been deferred intergenerationally. I know Chicagoans will understand if the hoi polloi of pay-as-you-go locales are reluctant to fund a bailout. Not that Rahm and his successors would ever ask.