Fat Fire-ees - are you out there?

[jollystomper]

My FIRE plan is budgeting 125K expenses for a comfortable retirement. Our "bare bones apocalypse" budget is $70K. The various modeling tools and former Megacorp financial planner gave us a a range of $150K-$210K for safe retirement spending. So we will see how "fat" our FIRE is going to be. It is too soon to tell so far as I am still getting severance pay so it feels more like "long vacation" instead of FIRE.

[DawgMan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Cosmic Avenger For me the retirement income is not the foremost reason we're delaying retirement, it's that we want to keep working while our child goes to college so that they can graduate without debt. Besides, even if I retired now or soon, I am not sure my partner would, so I would not enjoy it as much. I think once we're past paying for college (and maybe medical school!!), I can get them to ease up on work, and then maybe they'll find that they like it, especially if I can show them the results of the Fido RIP calculator.

This has always been part of my plan. I want to have all my kids off the payroll (as much as possible). Last kid (kid 4) graduates in spring 2019 so I have planned for a clean tax year break at the end of 2019. I anticipate some potential kid support for say 12 months thereafter until she hopefully moves out on her own, but I can tell you from experience to include at least 1 yr of potential kid support after college (it could be min expenses such as room/board... or not). 2 of my 4 are married so I have a separate wedding budget for the other 2 girls. None the less, I wanted this type of clean break before I retire.

[cyber888]

I’ve heard of Fat FIRE recently. Most of the Fat Fires are spending $100k-$150K. $300K per year is more than Fat FIRE .. it’s more like Gluttony Fat Fat Fire. If you are second-guessing yourself about spending $300K, then you should evaluate your situation. If you have 40 years expenses or at least $12 Million .. guess you will be fine.

[Bigdawg]

my one last thought on FAT FIRE: When I finally ER I don't want to have to think about or work too hard on the budget/finances. What I am saying is that I will most likely spend about 10% too much overall because I do not want to be meticulous in my planning/spending. I will have it all on cruise control and if we want something we will get it and not have to think about it. That 10% will be in my discretionary of course. Lean fire would mean detailed planning and accountability. I am there now. I am past lean FI and close to FAT FI. If we ER now our core expenses would be about 65% of our annual take even after taxes. I want core expenses to be 50% or less than annual take when we fully ER. It just goes against my nature to be so meticulous and detailed. I do it at work because I have to.

[DawgMan]

A little over 1 year later I thought I would share a little bit of my experiment. End of this year is/was/could still be my planned launch, although I will most likely go with a slow fade-out in my business over the earlier of the next 18 - 24 months or a recession. I have revised my plan this way in hopes of finding something a little more meaningful to sink my teeth into... so far in my "partial retirement" I am spending too much time staring at the ceiling.

Due to a big year in business, I decided to completely take the governor off spending and see what my wife and I might spend if we just did what we wanted to do (no budget analyzing). While the year is not over, here is what I have found (a few nuggets) along with comments relative to how it might play out in full blown RE (no earned income)...

Travel: $35K/yr (includes trip to France, family week beach trip for 12 paid 100% by pops, other weekender trips). Honestly, this year feels like a full year of travel and suspect it will be close to where i might top out in RE... and not every year. I am thinking $20K - $25K may be more typical as a budget.

Wife's Clothes: $14K/yr... yes, she likes to shop. Remember, this is my experiment. This will not be sustainable... and she knows it.

Groceries/Booze: $23K... that's the pace we are on. We like to entertain and enjoy a decent bottle of wine. With 4 kids/spouses/dates and a bunch of in-laws, family entertaining can get large. I suspect this will be similar, but hopefully go down some.

Restaurants: $14K... current pace. We enjoy eating out. Suspect this number will stay about the same.

Other than about another $100K of nonrecurring expenses (i.e. new car, home improvements), most of my other expenses were somewhat inline with previously set budget.

As mentioned in one of my earlier posts, there is significant discretion in my planned burn rate (doesn't mean I will spend it all). Due to my income this year and investment returns, I am fortunate to see my pot grow much more than expected so my burn rate is now a fair amount higher than previously planned, should I decide to spend it. Conclusion...while my little experiment moved the needle some, it's clear it won't be easy to just blow the dough on myself!

Anyone have an expensive indulgent habit they have kept running in RE?

[Luck_Club]

boating.. (in two locations)
a bit over your restaurant budget.

[RobLJ]

My favorite Robert Newton (Long John Silver) quote:
"Them's that dies 'lll be the looky ones!"

[SnowballCamper]

(14+23)/365=$103 per day on food would definitely make me Fat.

[DawgMan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnowballCamper (14+23)/365=$103 per day on food would definitely make me Fat.

You got to taste the good stuff Snowman!

[SnowballCamper]

Yes. I do enjoy a fine meal once in a while. We’ll go on special occasions, but not regularly. And my wallet isn’t quite that fat either.

[RobbieB]

Going tomorrow, before the concert. Blow at least $150 on dinner for 2.

[RobLJ]

I suppose we're at 8+ and 9+ after SS starts in 4 years.

We target 20-25K for travel and luxuries. It's harder than one would think to spend freely after years of saving and preparing for the yewts to go to college.

I still can't justify flying first class internationally or particularly domestic. I'm not judging any of you; the price increase just offends me. I'd rather spend it on food and drinks once I get to the destination.

We're 5k over budget this year, but that includes 29k in solar panels. (The 3 weeks in Ireland in June/July--two weeks hiking and one in Dublin were worth every penny, but when you're hiking all day, the big spend is on dinner and drinks after you get in. It's travelling very economically, but it doesn't seem at all that way while doing it. The Irish may be the friendliest people on earth, besides hispanics in the Southwest.)

[Dtail]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnowballCamper (14+23)/365=$103 per day on food would definitely make me Fat.

We are still in good shape and spend 15k yearly on groceries/dining out, but does not include entertainment. lol

[kgtest]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DawgMan Due to my income this year and investment returns, I am fortunate to see my pot grow much more than expected ...

If you look at the 1 year returns vs YTD you might change your mind.

[Teacher Terry]

Snow, I think the difference on the high food spend is that they are going to really expensive restaurants so dropping big amounts versus actually spending a hundred dollars a day on food.

[DawgMan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kgtest If you look at the 1 year returns vs YTD you might change your mind.

Well, not sure what you mean?? I suppose it all depends on one’s individual investments/income to answer that question...

[DawgMan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teacher Terry Snow, I think the difference on the high food spend is that they are going to really expensive restaurants so dropping big amounts versus actually spending a hundred dollars a day on food.

Yep. Choice of restaurant, drinks, wine, and company can move the needle here.

[Perryinva]

He’s probably referring to YTD returns in the 16-18% range based on benchmarks, vs a1 year return which showed a more typical 7-8%, mainly due to the 12/2018 short turn market tanks. I agree, though, WTF, everyone has different investments, so who knows. Bottom line, no one retired would be really unhappy long term with 7-8% and less than 2% inflation. Well, I know I wouldn’t. My 10 year bull market returns have been well above that, but I will not fool myself in to thinking that is sustainable for the next 20 years. Like some here, I have more than adequate fixed income, and while not the OPs definition of Fat Fire, it is plenty fat for us with about 1/2 discretionary

[Scuba]

We have increased spending since our ER, mainly in 2 categories - travel went from $20-$25K to $35-$40K as we now take much longer trips and have done more short trips too. Healthcare has gone up dramatically as our employers no longer pay insurance premiums. We also spend quite a bit on eating out and groceries, but that was the case pre- FIRE.

[kimcdougc]

Quote:

Originally Posted by marko I mentioned earlier in the thread (or maybe another thread) that we tried coach overnight to Europe once. Once. Seven hours of hell. Never again. Of course, we're quite spoiled because my previous 4 million miles were all in First so we're a bit skewed in our expectations. I'm of the mindset that First is the real price of the flight and anything below that is a compromise in varying degrees of discomfort. I'll economize elsewhere.

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