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Old 10-20-2015, 03:13 PM   #21
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Whoa, my projections have changed considerably!! I used the RIP tool to plan my retirement, it seemed to give me a little more confidence.
with the changes, it shows a 40% decline than previous evaluations. I am not sure what to think.....

I still have enough to live on, but now I am rethinking buying that RV....
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Old 10-20-2015, 03:40 PM   #22
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I went back again and now see the difference. there's a toggle that lets you
project in either today's dollars or future dollars. that's the 40% difference.

I came out way ahead in future dollars for an average market.


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Old 10-20-2015, 03:47 PM   #23
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I went back again and now see the difference. there's a toggle that lets you
project in either today's dollars or future dollars. that's the 40% difference.

I came out way ahead in future dollars for an average market.


Are you sure you want it in future dollars? To me today's dollars is a better value because it would take inflation into consideration.

Also, Your 40% reduction from the old version may be more related with average vs below average market returns.
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Old 10-20-2015, 03:59 PM   #24
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I went back again and now see the difference. there's a toggle that lets you
project in either today's dollars or future dollars. that's the 40% difference.
I should have mentioned that feature but as I usually use the today's dollars feature I never even thought about it.
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Old 10-20-2015, 04:02 PM   #25
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If only Vanguard had something of equal caliber.
On the long run into retirement I used to use the Financials Engine tool available through the Vanguard site but these days I prefer the FRIP and FIRECALC calculators.
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Old 10-20-2015, 08:14 PM   #26
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On the long run into retirement I used to use the Financials Engine tool available through the Vanguard site but these days I prefer the FRIP and FIRECALC calculators.
FIRECALC and CFIRE, using historical data, definitely provide more optimistic scenarios. I always liked FRIP because of the "underperforming market"/90% confidence option (although as noted above the 95% confidence level has been removed).

Now I don't know what to think as the new results show only the tax bracket one is assumed to be in, while the former version showed exact yearly amounts of estimated taxes to be paid, without any mention of a tax bracket. So to me comparing results from the old to the new version is like comparing apples and oranges. Worst, the former version showed me paying some taxes (albeit low), and now I'm assumed to be in a "0" tax bracket, which makes no sense. When I use the tax calculator provided, I'm given a 9% federal/2% state (CA) tax bracket, which isn't useful because it fails to take into account taxable accounts/roths, etc.
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Old 10-20-2015, 09:14 PM   #27
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FIRECALC and CFIRE, using historical data, definitely provide more optimistic scenarios. I always liked FRIP because of the "underperforming market"/90% confidence option (although as noted above the 95% confidence level has been removed).

Now I don't know what to think as the new results show only the tax bracket one is assumed to be in, while the former version showed exact yearly amounts of estimated taxes to be paid, without any mention of a tax bracket. So to me comparing results from the old to the new version is like comparing apples and oranges. Worst, the former version showed me paying some taxes (albeit low), and now I'm assumed to be in a "0" tax bracket, which makes no sense. When I use the tax calculator provided, I'm given a 9% federal/2% state (CA) tax bracket, which isn't useful because it fails to take into account taxable accounts/roths, etc.
I never paid any attention to the assumed tax brackets because for me they will vary a lot due to the Roth conversions I choose to do each year and will drop dramatically when I stop doing Roth conversions, and start doing Roth withdrawals.
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Old 10-20-2015, 11:18 PM   #28
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I never paid any attention to the assumed tax brackets because for me they will vary a lot due to the Roth conversions I choose to do each year and will drop dramatically when I stop doing Roth conversions, and start doing Roth withdrawals.
Yes I intend to do Roth conversions as well. but in the former version it gave the tax detail so at least you had the ability to see what their assumptions were. Now you do not.
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Old 10-21-2015, 12:07 AM   #29
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For me the tax detail was one of the main features RIP had over the other retirement planners. I'll probably look for something else to use now for a planner. I'm not a fan so far of the new reports without the taxes and minimum required distributions listed year by year. If they are still there somewhere I can't find them

Added -

I found the minimum distributions on the downloaded report, but the numbers look way low for me. Like crazy way low compared to the old RIP. Is anyone else seeing this?
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Old 10-21-2015, 04:05 AM   #30
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My plan is now failing but I noticed it is missing a fairly large cash account. It is not including it in the analysis and calls it unassigned as all the other accounts are tagged retirement.
I had similar problems since I started using RIP years ago, with certain non-Fidelity accounts. I just refresh the data each time I use RIP and print (to PDF) a report before I save.
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Old 10-21-2015, 07:40 AM   #31
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Justva heads up, i had pension info in the old rip, lump sum and annuity scenarios, the new rip turned both options on so i was getting the ls and annuity. Had to set ls value to 9 to run.


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Old 10-21-2015, 07:41 AM   #32
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I mean 0 not nine.... Duh


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Old 10-21-2015, 10:30 AM   #33
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For me the tax detail was one of the main features RIP had over the other retirement planners. I'll probably look for something else to use now for a planner. I'm not a fan so far of the new reports without the taxes and minimum required distributions listed year by year. If they are still there somewhere I can't find them

Added -

I found the minimum distributions on the downloaded report, but the numbers look way low for me. Like crazy way low compared to the old RIP. Is anyone else seeing this?
Emphasis added.

+1

Will probably use something else now as well, probably ESPlanner as it as conservative as FRIP and provides tax detail (as well as lots of other detail, which is why FRIP and ESP, aside from being the most conservative, were my calculators of choice).

Just checked RMD's, and they approximate ones from before. I remain uncomfortable being unable to see FRIP's tax assumptions other than an assumed tax bracket.
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Old 10-21-2015, 11:17 AM   #34
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I found the tax amounts generated by the old RIP to be inaccurate. Actually, in some cases they made no sense at all. I questioned a rep at Fidelity and he told me to take no notice of the tax amounts; they were aware that in some cases they are wildly wrong.

I suspect this is why they have changed the tax part of the new tool.
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Old 10-21-2015, 11:35 AM   #35
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I found the tax amounts generated by the old RIP to be inaccurate. Actually, in some cases they made no sense at all. I questioned a rep at Fidelity and he told me to take no notice of the tax amounts; they were aware that in some cases they are wildly wrong.

I suspect this is why they have changed the tax part of the new tool.
My first thoughts from seeing the detail tax part removed is the less detail the less Fidelity could be held accountable for errors. The output is a bit strange to say the least, as the detail columns don't add up to the total columns since taxes aren't shown or even included in total expenses - just implied somewhere while apparently residing somewhere off into the ether.

It makes it hard to check their numbers for accuracy or even a basic reasonableness check.
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Old 10-21-2015, 12:12 PM   #36
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I found the tax amounts generated by the old RIP to be inaccurate. Actually, in some cases they made no sense at all. I questioned a rep at Fidelity and he told me to take no notice of the tax amounts; they were aware that in some cases they are wildly wrong.

I suspect this is why they have changed the tax part of the new tool.
Your statement is concerning. I find it odd FRIP would bother to put in tax amounts in the old version only to have a Fidelity rep to say "take no notice" of those amounts. What else, then, in the calculator should we "take no notice" of? Either that rep was wrong or the calculator was wrong...somewhere.

I found the tax amounts in ESPlanner roughly matched those in FRIP. Almost 2 of every 3 of my PF $ are in after-tax/Roth, so I'm not worried so much about it, particularly since I plan to do Roth conversions. What I am concerned with is the usefulness of this new version.
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Old 10-21-2015, 12:53 PM   #37
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I found the tax amounts in ESPlanner roughly matched those in FRIP. Almost 2 of every 3 of my PF $ are in after-tax/Roth, so I'm not worried so much about it, particularly since I plan to do Roth conversions. What I am concerned with is the usefulness of this new version.
I've not used ESPlanner but I don't recall FRIP ever having any inputs to allow one to indicate the amounts of future income to be from regular income, qualified dividends, cap gains, ROTH withdrawals etc, or to estimate tax lowering deductions from mortgages, HSA's, charitable giving etc. I had always assumed that the tax estimates old FRIP were rough calculations anyway. This simplified version of stating one's expected effective tax rate is probably better imo, but that rate is not going to be consistent year on year over my retirement, but it is very easy to tinker with based on my actual returns.
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Old 10-21-2015, 02:05 PM   #38
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I've not used ESPlanner but I don't recall FRIP ever having any inputs to allow one to indicate the amounts of future income to be from regular income, qualified dividends, cap gains, ROTH withdrawals etc, or to estimate tax lowering deductions from mortgages, HSA's, charitable giving etc. I had always assumed that the tax estimates old FRIP were rough calculations anyway. This simplified version of stating one's expected effective tax rate is probably better imo, but that rate is not going to be consistent year on year over my retirement, but it is very easy to tinker with based on my actual returns.
Emphasis added

I assumed the same, and neither FRIP or ESPlanner allowed for the tax inputs you mentioned (I'm not sure that's even possible, given the endless combinations). ESPlanner allows one to decide withdrawal order of taxable, non-taxable, and roth. The old version of FRIP didn't do this, but IIRC the methodology explained that withdrawals were assumed to be made in the order of taxable, non-taxable, and then ROTH.

My intention was to use FRIP and ESPlanner to compare my year end balances to their estimates based on worst case scenarios. IMO, the value of FRIP is precisely their year end net worth estimates which can be used as comparison to see if one is "on track", more or less (much like those who use spreadsheets to do the same).

How can a tax bracket be valuable? In my case, it stated I would be in the zero tax bracket throughout retirement. How is this even possible, and how is it actionable given no explanations are given for how this conclusion was reached?
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Old 10-21-2015, 02:11 PM   #39
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I've not used ESPlanner but I don't recall FRIP ever having any inputs to allow one to indicate the amounts of future income to be from regular income, qualified dividends, cap gains, ROTH withdrawals etc, or to estimate tax lowering deductions from mortgages, HSA's, charitable giving etc. I had always assumed that the tax estimates old FRIP were rough calculations anyway. This simplified version of stating one's expected effective tax rate is probably better imo, but that rate is not going to be consistent year on year over my retirement, but it is very easy to tinker with based on my actual returns.
Good points, but I thought I could count on them for a somewhat reasonable approximation of MRDs and associated tax consequences. I guess better to find out now I probably should delve into that more myself.

I still have not figured out why our MRDs went so low but it is not giving me warm fuzzies since they are the ones who converted the data, not me and I have the printouts with MRDs from the old versions with the higher and more realistic looking amounts. One tax bracket throughout retirement is kind of useless for us because of varying income streams, especially MRDs, as we are taking the ACA credits now instead of doing Roth conversions.
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Old 10-21-2015, 02:47 PM   #40
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How can a tax bracket be valuable? In my case, it stated I would be in the zero tax bracket throughout retirement. How is this even possible, and how is it actionable given no explanations are given for how this conclusion was reached?
It is not a tax bracket that the new FRIP provides, it is an expected effective tax rate, which is tax paid divided by gross income, so you can easily calculate that from your past tax returns, and estimate it for returns in the future.

A default effective tax rate of zero means, like FIRECALC, it is not going to calculate any taxes at all, so you would have to allow for taxes in your expense estimates. With no taxes estimated then it really is up to the user to estimate taxes based on his personal circumstances incluing the magnitude and order of withdrawals from after tax, deferred tax, and tax free accounts.
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