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Old 11-03-2012, 02:00 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by FinancialDave View Post
Mutual Funds fees - $75 Fidelity (the highest I have found anywhere), Vanguard $35.
Fidelity was not that bad the last time I looked at everyone else, though I haven't checked Vanguard. The Fidelity $75 fee is only for buys, sells are free. Other companies charged less but had the same charge for buys and sells. I figured I'd be making large buys in setting up my AA and then small sells raising retirement cash. So Fidelity actually looks cheaper to me. I eventually went direct to fund companies for most of my non-NTF funds, so I don't think I'm all NTF at Fidelity now. I'd rather have multiple accounts than fees.
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Old 11-03-2012, 02:35 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Cheesehead View Post
I also use both but...I think there may be a difference now because Vanguard recently changed how it benchmarks its index funds (to save themselves money):

Vanguard to Switch Benchmarks for 22 Index Funds - Yahoo! Finance

I am still trying to figure out what this means. I do believe it means we can't compare Apples-to-Apples between index funds of Fidelity & VG correct? Can some knowledgeable person please explain this in layman's terms? It seems to me that there is now a true difference, correct?

So, how can we compare the two in terms of index funds?
The WSJ today has an article on the index switch. Not sure if it is behind a paywall but here is the link:
The War Between the Indexes - WSJ.com

The article particularly comments on the differences in index content and uses VWO as an example,].
"Take the Vanguard MSCI Emerging Markets ETF, VWO -0.61% which has an expense ratio of 0.2% and tracks the MSCI Emerging Markets Index. In January, Vanguard will begin moving the ETF to the FTSE Emerging Index.
The change could cause Vanguard's licensing costs to dip below 0.02% per fund, says Vijay Sumon, director of quantitative research at HSBCHSBA.LN +0.18%—meaning that segment alone would cost an investor about $2 for every $10,000.
Yet the FTSE and MSCI indexes have a huge difference: While MSCI's index allocates almost 15% to Korean stocks, FTSE classifies South Korea as a developed country, and its emerging-markets index owns no Korean stocks. Conversely, FTSE includes the United Arab Emirates, Pakistan and Bermuda, while MSCI doesn't"
Nwsteve
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Old 11-03-2012, 02:58 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by nwsteve View Post
The WSJ today has an article on the index switch. Not sure if it is behind a paywall but here is the link:
It is blocked to non-subscribers using the link you provided.

Shhhh... Don't tell anyone. If you use a google search on The War Between the Indexes (I did it without quote marks), you get what they call an "Article Free Pass."
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Old 11-03-2012, 03:03 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by nwsteve View Post
The WSJ today has an article on the index switch. Not sure if it is behind a paywall but here is the link:
The War Between the Indexes - WSJ.com
The WSJ has a little-publicized back-door deal with Google to make their content available through the search engine. Here's how to handle that paywall issue:
1. Click on the link. You'll get the first few paragraphs of the article.
2. Highlight the article title ("The War Between the Indexes") and paste the phrase (with quotes) into a Google search box.
3. Click on the link again, which is probably the first search result (next to the image).
4. Enjoy your new WSJ access to the full article.

Notice that the link was originally:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204707104578090782337407620.html?m od=WSJ_hps_sections_personalfinance

but after running it through the search engine it became:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204707104578090782337407620.html?m od=googlenews_wsj
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Old 11-03-2012, 03:43 PM   #25
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Thanks to both RonBoyd and Nords for sharing the WSJ back door for content. I had not stumbled across that avenue before. Is it common for the Google backdoor work for other media sites?
Nwsteve
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Old 11-03-2012, 03:45 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by nwsteve View Post
Thanks to both RonBoyd and Nords for sharing the WSJ back door for content. I had not stumbled across that avenue before. Is it common for the Google backdoor work for other media sites?
Nwsteve
Psst... NYtimes
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Old 11-03-2012, 05:42 PM   #27
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Safe is a relative term!

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Originally Posted by rescueme View Post
Same here.

DW/me invest with both companies, and being in retirement (pre-SS, pre-pension), we draw from both to satisfy our income needs (me? FIDO. DW? VG).

As has been said many times before, both have their positives/negatives, and in reality, why must it be a choice between either one?

And please don't tell me that it is easier to "manage" your assets with just one company (be it FIDO, VG, or any other company).

With today's tools and migration services (being able to see all your assets, regardless of provider - such as is provided by Yodlee), there is no reason to consider that as a prime reason to just give all your assets to just one company.

Just my simple POV ...
If Yodlee is one of those places that pulls together multiple financial sites information, including passwords, this is not for me. I am worried enough when places like TDAmeritrade can't keep your account data safe - how would a small company like Yodlee be better? This just adds one more site to the mix for a security breach.

fd
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Old 11-03-2012, 05:59 PM   #28
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If Yodlee is one of those places that pulls together multiple financial sites information, including passwords, this is not for me.
I am not sure you have a voice in that decision:

Google knows you but Yodlee knows your online banking habits. - Nov. 16, 2010

Quote:
If you've banked online, you've probably used Yodlee without even knowing it. More than 200 financial institutions, including Citibank and Bank of America use its services, touching nearly 26 million consumers. Your bank probably uses its technology, too, though Yodlee doesn't like to name names.
Quote:
When you log into your bank and transfer money between your savings and checking accounts, that's Yodlee providing to [sic] the technology to make the transaction happen. Paying a bill online? Yodlee. Signing up for a new account? Yodlee. Analyze how much you spend? Yodlee.
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Old 11-03-2012, 08:29 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by RonBoyd View Post
I think the key may be this:

Quote:
For example, on Bank of America's website, customers can see all of their bank accounts in one place. Behind the scenes, Yodlee has scraped your financial data from your various lenders -- student loans, mortgage holder, credit cards, 401(k), checking, savings -- and fed it to Bank of America. (With your log-ins and permissions, of course. But more on that later.)
How I understand this is that Yodlee just supplies the API (application interface) to these banks, which would seem to indicate that the bank is responsible for securing your passwords, even though the Yodlee API may interface to it on any site that uses it.

Now here is what I perceive to be the problem when you allow one site, such as MINT, or say B of A in the example above to essentially "save" all your passwords, you are putting all your eggs into one proverbial basket.

I see nothing to indicate in the article nor the Yodlee website that it would be storing your passwords on its site - it is basically interface and data mining software that runs on banking websites.

I could be totally wrong, but that is my impression, as financial institutes certainly share information but hopefully not your passwords WITHOUT YOUR PERMISSION, as the article notes.

fd
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Fidelity Fees
Old 11-03-2012, 08:45 PM   #30
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Fidelity Fees

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Originally Posted by Animorph View Post
Fidelity was not that bad the last time I looked at everyone else, though I haven't checked Vanguard. The Fidelity $75 fee is only for buys, sells are free. Other companies charged less but had the same charge for buys and sells. I figured I'd be making large buys in setting up my AA and then small sells raising retirement cash. So Fidelity actually looks cheaper to me. I eventually went direct to fund companies for most of my non-NTF funds, so I don't think I'm all NTF at Fidelity now. I'd rather have multiple accounts than fees.
I just checked on the Fidelity site and it still looks to me like $75 flat fee both ways, but even if it isn't here is the issue:

Most people don't realize how these fees and commissions compound over time. Let's take your simple $75 commission charged on a mutual fund earning 10% a year over it's lifetime. Say you own this fund for 40 years - this $75 cost you $3,394 over the 40 years you held the fund. Maybe noise in the bigger picture of a million dollar portfolio, but still is one of those fees that can be eliminated or reduced and this is the cost of just ONE commission. The sell commission would only cost you $75 over the life of the fund -- this is why front end loads are so destructive.

fd
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Old 11-03-2012, 08:58 PM   #31
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Hmmm. If I've set up my passwords properly directly with my bank and the passwords are compromised (either because the bank gave 'em to Yodlee or because the bank itself was negligent), I'd think I and the other folks affected would be in a good position to force the bank to make things right. But, if I give all my passwords and account info to Yodlee and my accounts later get hacked/zeroed out, then deciding which party is at fault gets a lot harder. And I doubt Yodlee's pockets are as deep.
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Old 11-03-2012, 09:05 PM   #32
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We use both. My Fidelity rollover IRA was formerly my MegaCorp 401K at Fidelity. My Vanguard rollover IRA is my MegaCorp lump sum pension plus our Roth IRA's. The bulk of the money at both is invested in Freedom or Target funds.

Personally, I prefer Vanguard because the website is much easier to manage IMHO and, of course, the expenses are lower. I have been considering rolling the Fidelity IRA to Vanguard after the dividends are paid in December.

I will probably keep both for diversity. When my RMD's become due in the not too distant future, the proceeds will be going into two local credit unions.
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Old 11-03-2012, 10:48 PM   #33
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I just checked on the Fidelity site and it still looks to me like $75 flat fee both ways, but even if it isn't here is the issue:

Most people don't realize how these fees and commissions compound over time. Let's take your simple $75 commission charged on a mutual fund earning 10% a year over it's lifetime. Say you own this fund for 40 years - this $75 cost you $3,394 over the 40 years you held the fund. Maybe noise in the bigger picture of a million dollar portfolio, but still is one of those fees that can be eliminated or reduced and this is the cost of just ONE commission. The sell commission would only cost you $75 over the life of the fund -- this is why front end loads are so destructive.

fd
There is no transaction fee on dividend/capital gains distributions. The $75 is only for the purchase. If you really want a fund not in the NTF family, simply buy the fund direct and later move to your Fido account.
I have recently moved Vanguard positions to Fido and sold partial shares, no sales costs.
Nwsteve
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Fidelity/Vanguard/ Scottrade
Old 11-03-2012, 11:21 PM   #34
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Fidelity/Vanguard/ Scottrade

For Mutual Fund transactions, I use Scottrade instead of Fidelity. They charge only $17 transaction fee. They also have some funds that can be bought with NO Transaction Fee.
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Old 11-04-2012, 11:18 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by nwsteve View Post
Thanks to both RonBoyd and Nords for sharing the WSJ back door for content. I had not stumbled across that avenue before. Is it common for the Google backdoor work for other media sites?
Nwsteve
I try it every time I get paywalled. You never know who's signed up since the last time you tried.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FinancialDave View Post
If Yodlee is one of those places that pulls together multiple financial sites information, including passwords, this is not for me. I am worried enough when places like TDAmeritrade can't keep your account data safe - how would a small company like Yodlee be better? This just adds one more site to the mix for a security breach.
Yodlee is one of the very first places to aggregate financial info, and I agree with you that they can be hacked. Everybody can be hacked. The difference is that Yodlee and the financial institutions have been doing business for long enough to be able to make you whole. Eventually.
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