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Re: Final Meeting With My Finacial Advisor.
Old 01-09-2007, 10:38 AM   #21
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Re: Final Meeting With My Finacial Advisor.

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Wow, amazing! Your doctor, attorney, plumber, electrician, gardener, and accountant all work for free and are in their businesses only for service to mankind!

You certainly know some generous people.

also, I can't think of a worse field (ok, medicine) to get into to get rich quick.
Ok...............saluki, you owe me a monitor!!

Come on, that heating and air conditioning guy "really likes you" and "knows" that you need a new $3000 furnace........he's just "doing his job to keep your family warm and safe".................. : : :
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Re: Final Meeting With My Finacial Advisor.
Old 01-09-2007, 10:39 AM   #22
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Re: Final Meeting With My Finacial Advisor.

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If he only took a percentage of the added return he gave you then it might be justified. These sharks want a cut of your total investment.
Really? Care to expound upon that??
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Re: Final Meeting With My Finacial Advisor.
Old 01-09-2007, 10:45 AM   #23
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Re: Final Meeting With My Finacial Advisor.

WTF. Who mentioned any other trade than FA?

I believe in paying people for the services they provide. Every Financial advisor I have used has charged me for producing lower returns than I can achieve on my own (or, more precisely, with SWMBO). That is not a service worth paying for.

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Re: Final Meeting With My Finacial Advisor.
Old 01-09-2007, 10:47 AM   #24
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Re: Final Meeting With My Finacial Advisor.

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You are funny...............
And in many cases, correct.

Ha
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Re: Final Meeting With My Finacial Advisor.
Old 01-09-2007, 10:49 AM   #25
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Re: Final Meeting With My Finacial Advisor.

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Really? Care to expound upon that??
Yes, compensation based on beating a certain metric, and sharing the gain, instead of x percent of the total portfolio whatever the performance.
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Re: Final Meeting With My Finacial Advisor.
Old 01-09-2007, 10:57 AM   #26
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Re: Final Meeting With My Finacial Advisor.

MyDream - If I can do this you can too!! Read as many books, websites and messages boards as it takes until you reach that "AH HA!" moment.
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Re: Final Meeting With My Finacial Advisor.
Old 01-09-2007, 10:58 AM   #27
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Re: Final Meeting With My Finacial Advisor.

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Really? Care to expound upon that??
Hello? Earth to Mars... (Finance Dude)

A customer's combined FP/fund fees say are 1.5% to 2.5% of principal. His average gross return may be 7% (maybe!). So on $100,000 invested, the FP /mutual fund gets $1500 to $2500. The customer grosses is $7000, and his before tax net is $5500 to $4500. In the $1500/5500 case, his "advisors" and the fund managers get 27% as much as he does, with no risk. In the other case, which let's remember is way better than what happend to the OP, his "advisors" actually make off with more than he does!

What a really good deal this is. :P

Not that you don't already know this; it's why you are in this field. What I can't figure out is why you keep defending the indefensible on this board, where no one is fooled by it?

Shouldn't you be out giving seminars in Senior Centers?

Ha
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Re: Final Meeting With My Finacial Advisor.
Old 01-09-2007, 10:59 AM   #28
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Re: Final Meeting With My Finacial Advisor.

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Originally Posted by F M All
WTF. Who mentioned any other trade than FA?

I believe in paying people for the services they provide. Every Financial advisor I have used has charged me for producing lower returns than I can achieve on my own (or, more precisely, with SWMBO). That is not a service worth paying for.

1. Other trades were mentioned because it was implied that you can't get good service from somebody who is trying to make money. That in itself is pretty foolish because I'm not aware of too many people who are in business to lose money.

2. Have you considered that some advisors work on an hourly fee? In addition, if you goal is to find somebody (and they are seeking clients) on the principle that they can beat the market then perhaps you are looking for the wrong thing in an advisor. Most will not beat the market averages. However, the average individual investor is so far from even matching index returns that it isn't funny.

In other words, the average person didn't need an advisor in 1999, a lot of people who didn't have them needed one in 2000 and 2001



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Re: Final Meeting With My Finacial Advisor.
Old 01-09-2007, 10:59 AM   #29
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Re: Final Meeting With My Finacial Advisor.

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Originally Posted by F M All
Yes, compensation based on beating a certain metric, and sharing the gain, instead of x percent of the total portfolio whatever the performance.
Is that a wish, or a dream? Because that's not in the NASD/SEC rulebook, as far as I know............

Sounds like you like the hedge fund approach.......the managers take 20% of the gain every year...........
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Re: Final Meeting With My Finacial Advisor.
Old 01-09-2007, 11:03 AM   #30
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Re: Final Meeting With My Finacial Advisor.

Try "The Bogleheads Guide to Investing"... it talks about how to drive the car instead of delving into the theories of internal combustion engines.

More importantly at least two of those guys aren't in it for the money, have been successfully retired for decades, and have been financial education advocates for years. I've always enjoyed reading Mel & Taylor over at the Diehards board.

If Vanguard funds aren't available in Canada (I have no idea) the entire concept can be implemented with just about anybody's low-cost index funds.

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Re: Final Meeting With My Finacial Advisor.
Old 01-09-2007, 11:10 AM   #31
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Re: Final Meeting With My Finacial Advisor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by saluki9
1. Other trades were mentioned because it was implied that you can't get good service from somebody who is trying to make money. That in itself is pretty foolish because I'm not aware of too many people who are in business to lose money.

2. Have you considered that some advisors work on an hourly fee? In addition, if you goal is to find somebody (and they are seeking clients) on the principle that they can beat the market then perhaps you are looking for the wrong thing in an advisor. Most will not beat the market averages. However, the average individual investor is so far from even matching index returns that it isn't funny.

In other words, the average person didn't need an advisor in 1999, a lot of people who didn't have them needed one in 2000 and 2001=
Saluki, you are beating your head against the wall..............folks on here care about little else other than the "my advisor couldn't beat XYZ fund, so I dumped him/her............

I am pretty stupid, though........... :P In 1999, I "only" took 20% of my clients equity portfolios and reallocated to bonds............ :P. I'm "sure" they would have done that on their own............ : : :



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Re: Final Meeting With My Finacial Advisor.
Old 01-09-2007, 11:14 AM   #32
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Re: Final Meeting With My Finacial Advisor.

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Quote:
Yes, compensation based on beating a certain metric, and sharing the gain, instead of x percent of the total portfolio whatever the performance.
Is that a wish, or a dream? Because that's not in the NASD/SEC rulebook, as far as I know............ Wink
Regardless of whether it is a wish or a dream, it would place the adviser in a position where his/her motivation would be completely aligned with the customer's motivation. And that is to find a better risked return than the customer would achieve by him/herself (the "certain metric").
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Re: Final Meeting With My Finacial Advisor.
Old 01-09-2007, 11:19 AM   #33
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Re: Final Meeting With My Finacial Advisor.

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Is that a wish, or a dream? Because that's not in the NASD/SEC rulebook, as far as I know............ Wink

Regardless of whether it is a wish or a dream, it would place the adviser in a position where his/her motivation would be completely aligned with the customer's motivation. And that is to find a better risked return than the customer would achieve by him/herself (the "certain metric").
There are any number of occupations where changing the metric would help.....not just FA's.........how about if my attorney only charges me if he/she wins the case? Maybe the plumber can give me a 25% discount if the toilet he installed fails in the nect 3 years?? I am for that 100%............

I guess you can commoditize anything...........
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Re: Final Meeting With My Financial Advisor.
Old 01-09-2007, 11:19 AM   #34
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Re: Final Meeting With My Financial Advisor.

Reading books, as opposed to newsletters and magazines, is a superior way to become an informed investor. Of course, reading a book requires a certain amount of commitment and perseverance in that you have to acquire the book (purchase or library), read it, understand it and perhaps read it again.

This list from diehards.org is one of the better lists that you can refer to. All of the publications will assist any of us in our quest to become a much more informed investor. http://www.diehards.org/readbooks.htm
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Re: Final Meeting With My Financial Advisor.
Old 01-09-2007, 11:21 AM   #35
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Re: Final Meeting With My Financial Advisor.

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Originally Posted by mickeyd
Reading books, as opposed to newsletters and magazines, is a superior way to become an informed investor. Of course, reading a book requires a certain amount of commitment and perseverance in that you have to acquire the book (purchase or library), read it, understand it and perhaps read it again.

This list form diehards.org is one of the better lists that you can refer to. All of the publications will assist any of us in our quest to become a much more informed investor. http://www.diehards.org/readbooks.htm
Agree with you 100%..............
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Re: Final Meeting With My Finacial Advisor.
Old 01-09-2007, 11:22 AM   #36
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Re: Final Meeting With My Finacial Advisor.

MD, if you received an average 1% return, you actually lost money when inflation is factored in. I would recommend reading this book by John bogle, the father of indexing: "Common Sense on Mutual Funds." When you get done, you'll know more than your IG advisor.
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Re: Final Meeting With My Finacial Advisor.
Old 01-09-2007, 11:27 AM   #37
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Re: Final Meeting With My Finacial Advisor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FinanceDude
There are any number of occupations where changing the metric would help.....not just FA's.........how about if my attorney only charges me if he/she wins the case? Maybe the plumber can give me a 25% discount if the toilet he installed fails in the nect 3 years?? I am for that 100%............

I guess you can commoditize anything...........
FD,

Don't a lot of attorneys do that today - not necessarily a good thing.

I suggest you get a plumber who warrants his work. I doubt you can find a toilet that will last for 3 years though......

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Re: Final Meeting With My Finacial Advisor.
Old 01-09-2007, 11:30 AM   #38
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Re: Final Meeting With My Finacial Advisor.

My Dream

I suggest you go to Morningstar. You can learn a lot about funds there. Look for funds that have an MER of under 1%. You want to start simple. Get some index funds that mirror the markets you want to participate in. Because you are in Canada, you will want some C$ exposure. The funds there are biased toward banking and resources. So you might diversify with a US index covering other sectors. The you want international exposure.

You will need a discount brokerage account to buy no load funds. TDW offer eFunds that carry low costs and perform well. Good luck. And welcome to the DIY gang.

A Financial Planner might help you set up a realistic budget and do some DRIP investing. Get one who charges by the hour and cannot sell you any products. Some of the advice here (e.g. diehards) does not apply well to your situation. Try Financial Webring.
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Re: Final Meeting With My Finacial Advisor.
Old 01-09-2007, 11:36 AM   #39
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Re: Final Meeting With My Finacial Advisor.

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There are any number of occupations where changing the metric would help.....not just FA's.........how about if my attorney only charges me if he/she wins the case? Maybe the plumber can give me a 25% discount if the toilet he installed fails in the nect 3 years?? I am for that 100%............ laugh laugh

I guess you can commoditize anything...........
Why do you consider it "commoditization" to work to a reasonable performance standard? The plumber comes back and fixes the toilet if it starts leaking within a reasonable period of time. For free.

I admit that it would be difficult to define the performance standard for a FA, but the concept of doing so is not ridiculous. Aligning the motivations of the buyer and seller makes sense (but perhaps not enough dollars?).
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Re: Final Meeting With My Finacial Advisor.
Old 01-09-2007, 11:49 AM   #40
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Re: Final Meeting With My Finacial Advisor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FinanceDude
Saluki, you are beating your head against the wall..............folks on here care about little else other than the "my advisor couldn't beat XYZ fund, so I dumped him/her............

I am pretty stupid, though........... :P In 1999, I "only" took 20% of my clients equity portfolios and reallocated to bonds............ :P. I'm "sure" they would have done that on their own............ : : :

FD, I disagree. I think many of the folks here would be happy if they felt they were getting reasonable performance for reasonable cost without having to do the heavy lifting themselves. Most seem to be pretty happy with the concept of "modest" returns for "modest" risk, and prefer to simplify their portfolios to reduce their effort.
Unfortunately, there are too many bad experiences with FAs , especially the major firms, giving relatively low returns for high cost. Probably these firms don't care, yet, because there is a huge ocean full of the "financially unwashed" but sooner or later they are going to kill the goose (that is laying their golden egg).



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