Finances and Discussing Money across Generations

[Calico]

I agree with all the previous posters who recommend NOT initiating a conversation about your parents' money and what you might anticipate as an inheritance. You never know what will happen in life.

My father made piles of money in his lifetime, and he also acquired a new wife, a new house, and a new boat every 20 years or so. All of which was followed by a new divorce, new wife, wash-rinse-repeat.

I watched what he did with his money and determined to do the exact opposite. I assumed he would die owing money, and that's exactly what happened. It was his to do with as he wished, and he certainly had a good time.

Knowing there was no safety net coming from my parents at some future date was a huge contributor to my independence, financial and otherwise.

Having said all that, I hope the OP's parents stay together forever and do as they see fit with every dollar - whether that means spending all of it or leaving a large legacy.

IMHO, the best course of action for the OP is to continue on the path they are on, and if an inheritance happens to arrive at some time in the future, count their blessings.

[Totoro]

Bit late to the party here, here's my perspective anyway - It will sound familiar by now.

When I was more or less 25 (34 now), there was the following situation:

• I had no debt, no assets, nearing a PhD
• Parents were married, worth about roughly $2M in today money
• Grandparents well off (another $1M or so at one side with parent only child, >$5M but don't really know on the other side with 4 children).

Here's roughly what happened in the next 5 years:

• Parents got divorced
• Got completely cut off from one side of the family

As a result, any likely inheritance coming my way now will be 'a bit' vs. 'very sizeable'. And it may be in 30 years, or tomorrow. Or the 'cut off' side will leave me money anyway - no way to know.



Anyway, here is what I realized: basically the inheritance factor is very much out of your control, so you can't plan for it.



What I did do: I went for the high-stress high-paying job because I wanted to be (economically) free as soon as possible. Also didn't see the point of working 40 hours a week for the rest of my life, when I could also work 60 hours and 'graduate' to economic freedom before I was 40. Also shifted careers and move geography, but that was serendipity along the way, not much planning. By happenstance I picked up alot of valuable social skills and a fun network of people, both of which improved my life in a big way.



All this to say: Act as if no inheritance will be there. If you do well in your career and manage to build some wealth by LBYM, start sharing that fact with your parents. It will likely make them proud. Stop there.



Do not start up conversations about inheriting and estate planning yourself, it's intrusive and can damage your relation with them. Do however show your own interest in asset management by showing what you are doing with your money (hopefully succesfully!).



In my case this lead to me managing the finances of the 'non cut-off' side of the family. Basically because they believe I know what I am doing better than they do, and trust my character to handle these things with integrity.



In addition, professional skills you pick up in the beginning of your career can be very helpful in all sorts of areas in life. So the learning value alone is a big boon. And with any luck you meet a few interesting people along the way.

And just to finish off: Once you start getting financially independent (or free) yourself, you'll notice that your perspective will start to shift, in a good way. The inheritance thoughts will diminish, and move more towards time and enjoying the family you have, while you have it.

... so get cracking on your own financial path

[athena53]

Quote:

Originally Posted by younginvestor2013 If I attempted to be more frugal, the marginal savings wouldn't have a huge impact on my long term FI plans given that my nest egg generates more returns In a year than my own contributions, so I view it as a partial trade off of living in the now somewhat. Plus, it's harder to maintain a social life as a 25 year old that doesn't go out to dinners with friends or to the bars .

I'm with you on that! In my case, travel was a big priority. I don't regret a dime of whatever DH and I spent over the years (supplemented by judicious use of loyalty program points). First of all, not everyone makes it to retirement, or they find when they get there that they're less able to do the things they'd planned for "someday". Second, when the market crashed during the financial crisis, I actually felt a little better that I'd enjoyed some of the money along the way. It sounds like you've found a good balance.

[ChicagoGal]

I have to agree with the posters here. Ignore the potential inheritance and live your life. At your age, there is so much yet to come that you can't foresee. Will you marry? Will you have kids? Will you change jobs (voluntarily or involuntarily)? Will your health change? Will you be hit with a natural disaster or win the Publishers Clearinghouse Sweepstakes (if they even still have that)? What will the markets do? What circumstances may change for your parents? And yes... will the zombie apocalypse change anything?

My dad is 77 and married to his 3rd wife. He is retired (she never worked), and by all accounts, they are fairly well off (I'm sure my grandparents left him a nice sum and he had a very successful career until he retired about 7 years ago). They're not extravagant in spending, other than the 2 houses they own, although left to her own devices, the wife would likely spend much more (she is very vocal about how he won't travel more or buy her a new kitchen, etc.) He's in pretty good health, she has MS, but otherwise is in good health. I have two sisters, both of whom have children (I'm single with no kids), and all three of us are in slightly different financial situations. So really, the inheritance situation could be a little, a lot, nothing, soon (hope not), far in the future, I have no idea. So not a factor at all in my future planning. I still should retire in the next 4-5 years.

It looks like you are seeking the right balance between enjoying life now and planning for the future. Good (So am I, btw!) And there's no right answer to that - just what works for you. And that will change over the years, so keep at it! Take time to smell the roses, but make sure you keep fertilizing them so that they continue to bloom.

[Gumby]

Consider the following scenario:

Mom tragically dies young. Dad remarries a younger woman and they start having kids together. Or Dad marries another woman who comes with existing children from a prior marriage. Dad then dies and leaves everything to the new wife. Who do you think will end up with the money after that? Hint - probably not you.

Live your life as if you never knew about your parents' money. If you ever get any of it, consider it icing on the cake. But you have to bake the cake yourself.

[marko]

Quote:

Originally Posted by younginvestor2013 ^^^^ although, that being said, I do enjoy things in life. Meals/nights out with friends, vacations, shopping, etc. Id say compared to the typical poster here, it seems that I don't "lybm" as much but still manage to save about 15-17% of my gross income so my savings rate is still fairly high for my age. If I attempted to be more frugal, the marginal savings wouldn't have a huge impact on my long term FI plans given that my nest egg generates more returns In a year than my own contributions, so I view it as a partial trade off of living in the now somewhat. Plus, it's harder to maintain a social life as a 25 year old that doesn't go out to dinners with friends or to the bars . Sent from my iPhone using Early Retirement Forum

You seem to have your act together financially and otherwise. Why not just play this back-of-the-envelope game:

Give your parents what?, another 25 years and figure out what their net worth might be at that time.

Divide the parents estate by how many siblings you have and consider their charities and be sure to include taxes and other distributions etc. (i.e. your net inheritance)

Figure out what YOUR NW would be at that time.

You may realize that by that time, your inheritance might not be as great an influence to your lifestyle as you suspected.

The way you're going, I'd guess that your own NW will be such that any inheritance may be a nice piece of gravy but not enough to greatly change your life nor would it notably improve or change your road to that point.

[Andre1969]

Quote:

Originally Posted by marko You seem to have your act together financially and otherwise. Why not just play this back-of-the-envelope game: Give your parents what?, another 25 years and figure out what their net worth might be at that time. Divide the parents estate by how many siblings you have and consider their charities and be sure to include taxes and other distributions etc. (i.e. your net inheritance) Figure out what YOUR NW would be at that time. You may realize that by that time, your inheritance might not be as great an influence to your lifestyle as you suspected. The way you're going, I'd guess that your own NW will be such that any inheritance may be a nice piece of gravy but not enough to greatly change your life nor would it notably improve or change your road to that point.

I've thought about that myself, sometimes. I'm an only child, and the only grandkid on Mom's side of the family. So, I do stand to inherit a pretty good amount of money. Mom and stepdad are 66 and 62, respectively. I also have an uncle who's 62, and I'm his beneficiary. And my 91 year old Grandmom has left me part of her estate.

However, a lot of things could happen. Grandmom is in assisted living, and burning about $10,000 per month. My uncle is on dialysis, and while he probably won't live to a ripe old age, I could also see him running up some bills as he gets older. My Mom and stepdad don't have any signs of impending doom. However, they told me that their estate is set to go half to me, and the other half would go to his sister and half-brother. This is regardless of whoever dies first. However, who knows? My Mom could go first, and my stepdad could change his mind.

So, because of all that, I'm not counting on anything. And I figure anything that I do get, as another poster put it, is merely icing on a cake that I baked myself. Even if Grandmom passed away tomorrow, the amount I'd get wouldn't be life changing. My uncle hasn't done too badly, partly because I've helped manage his 401k and IRA. But, I figure he could still live another 10 years, maybe more. In another 10 years, I'll be 55 and should be setting pretty, all on my own. And chances are either my Mom or stepdad could easily go another 20-25 years, so that would put me around 65-70. By that point, if I haven't saved up for early retirement, then I think I missed the train!

[marko]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andre1969 However, a lot of things could happen. Grandmom is in assisted living, and burning about $10,000 per month. My uncle is on dialysis, and while he probably won't live to a ripe old age, I could also see him running up some bills as he gets older. My Mom and stepdad don't have any signs of impending doom. However, they told me that their estate is set to go half to me, and the other half would go to his sister and half-brother. This is regardless of whoever dies first. However, who knows? My Mom could go first, and my stepdad could change his mind. So, because of all that, I'm not counting on anything.

Agreed and that is the consensus of the contributors here.

I could write a book on several of my friends who were expecting big inheritances only to one day find that the money went to: new wives, unknown mistresses, undeclared siblings, a dog park, 'save the whales', a housekeeper, taxes, a sibling who was kinder to the old man than they were, a drug rehab center ("there you go junior, you can go there for free now...tell 'em I sent you") and so on.

I was only suggesting that after some very quick math the OP might find that his (best case) inheritance will be a drop in the bucket compared to his overall NW when the time comes.

[FUEGO]

+1 on the inheritances gone wrong train. My brother just got disinherited from my parents, and they are leaving everything to me with the understanding that I'll look after my brother's kids (my parents grandkids) as necessary. Of course, not being an a$$ could prevent this fate from befalling you!

My neighbor died recently. She left everything to her caretaker (some guy that lived in the neighborhood) and didn't give anything to her children (I assume they weren't very active in her life and lived on the other side of the country). No idea if the estate was $150k (just the house) or a million or more, but see never seemed to lack money. Bet there was some disappointed children when they found out mom died and didn't leave anything to them.

[Dog]

Another story. I have an old friend that was the apple of her father's eye. Her parents were divorced a while back. He met, dated and eventually married a younger woman. My friend and this woman got along very well and my friend felt sure that she would be taken care of (she is a spendthrift and floats from place to place, job-to-job and a couple of divorces. Dad always bailed her out). Anyway, her father and new wife moved out of state, he became ill and at some point the will was changed to the new wife inheriting everything and basically telling my friend to kiss off. My friend received nothing, has zero assets and is now trying to build a career in her late 50s.
She should have never counted on an inheritance.



Sent from my iPhone using Early Retirement Forum

[Music Lover]

Another twist on an inheritance: One of my uncles has 3 kids. His wife passed away many years ago and he never re-married. 2 of the kids are doing well, they have decent jobs and handle their money well. The 3rd kid is unreliable and can't hold a job and was constantly being bailed out by his dad. Finally, a few years ago the 3rd kid was cut off. The reason? His dad kept track throughout the years of all the bailouts, "loans" that were never paid back, rent payments, down payments on cars, etc., and then told him "Your share (a third) of what I expected to leave you when I die has been used up. You're on your own now."

[petershk]

Pretty crazy stories.

I'm on the other side. My parents don't have much (may need help actually). DW and I are at about 3.7m in liquid assets. Our kids are 2.5 and 10 months so it's probable that there will be a sizable inheritance.

While the kids grow up we plan to teach them about money but not make it easy for them nor do we live exteavgantly and thus don't plan to tell the kids how much there is. We've put money aside in a long term indexed investment account for education + a bit more. Then we plan to give them another chunk at 25-30... You know once they get past "the stupids" . How much I don't know... But not enough to do nothing.

Other than that we plan to leave anything else either to grandkids/nieces/nephews for things like college or maybe house down payment and probably give the rest away. It's also likely we'll give it away while were alive as we get older.

Last thing I want is to leave entitled kids but I do want to give them every chance to pursue their dreams.

Now if one of my kids has some great passion for philanthropy or something we might give them control over the money through a foundation or something but that would be pretty outlier situation.

Of course... Over the next 30 years a lot can happen so who knows...

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Early Retirement Forum mobile app

[catman2020]

I would suggest that you do start a discussion with your folks about finances for a few reasons - not about what you might receive. I agree with the overall advice to discount any inheritance you might get from your planning.

- at a minimum you should have the basic info on accounts and contact information
- DW and I have a few older relatives with some -- to a pretty large amount that they could leave as inheritance. What I've seen, and when I went online seems to be confirmed by various studies, is that if you make to 70, 80 or 90 plus years old with substantial amount of savings you stand a very good chance of being a victim of fraud and/or suffer from some form of dementia that makes it difficult for you to effectively manage your money.

There aren't any really great solutions I have found for these issues. You can do the 'it's their money and they can do whatever they want' but when you see these kinds of things it's hard to just stand by especially when there are spouses etc who are also being impacted:

- an 80plus year old is having to change all of her account numbers etc because of identity theft and still be getting taken in even after that
- a 90plus year old 'goes into business' with a 30 something who wants to bring in a convicted felon as a partner

Start the dialogue now when everyone is clearheaded. Sounds like you and your folks are both big planners and it might be a welcome discussion. Hopefully if/when the time comes your folks can 'hand over the keys' if they need to.




Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum

[gauss]

Perhaps you could estimate a range of inheritances to be used in the study of the robustness of your retirement plan, but I certainly would not build it into your baseline retirement plan assumptions.

If the size of the potential inheritance is large compared with your own assets then this strategy may not be appropriate.

-gauss

p.s. Remember that your parents could donate 75% of their 4m nest egg to charity and leave you and your siblings 25% of it. This would still be a sizable inheritance but perhaps not what you were originally expecting and planning for.

[Totoro]

Quote:

Originally Posted by catman2020 .. at a minimum you should have the basic info on accounts and contact information

+1 on this, maybe with a slight twist.

Ask them to keep an overview of the information in a safe place so you can get to it when it's necessary. You don't need access right now, just know where it is (e.g. "in a green folder upstairs in the brown desk"). Same thing with items as wills, DNRs and such. You should actually do the same (let your parents or a few siblings know in case something happens to you).

This can quite naturally lead to discussions on their wishes once they grow older and start needing help. Potentially quite uncomfortable to discuss about, so you can't force it. But very essential and helpful.

Note that this is more an end of life and quality of life thing, nothing financial per se.

[jollystomper]

To the OP, maybe this example from my life with help.

Both DW and I decided we would live our lives and assume we would get nothing from our parents. For my parents my attitude was they sacrificed to raise 7 kids and saw that we all got good educations and became independent, let them enjoy their money however they wanted. They had a passion for helping the poor both where they lived and in the country they emigrated from, so we knew that is where they were very generous with their money, and that was fine with us. We never talked about inheritance.

My dad passed away about 20 years ago, it turns out he set aside several thousand for each of us, in our case we put it towards our kids education. My other passed away last year, and it turns out she left what we consider large inheritances for her kids and grandkids.

Meanwhile, my DW's parents are have been talking about inheritance with DW and their kids, and IMHO it has been a disaster. When DW and I married we we in our mid-twenties they were very well off and MIL particularly tried to use her wealth to influence to "take her side" on issues, which I refused and let to estrangement from MIL for a while. I was able to convince DW to get out of those "what is due for you if you keep me happy" discussions, which was hard for her as all of her siblings were quite happy to benefit from them and on the surface it seemed their lives were better because of it.

Fast forward over the years... FIL and MIL end up splitting up, then FIL's health fails, and it impacts their wealth. DW siblings grow more dependent on them, to the point of being suspicious whenever FIL or MIL visit another sibling, concerned they are being influenced to get "more". FIL passes away about 15 years ago and there is a HUGE brouhaha over his possessions, I won't get into it but essentially DW got nothing But because we did not expect anything it does not impact our lifestyle or financial plans. MIL is still alive but DW siblings are evening more dependent on her, all have gone through bad times and divorces primarily due to trying to live live they had both their own money and MIL's money, MIL is in her mid 80's now and finally sees the light and slows down the gravy train and now wants DW and I to help her with her finances and talks of leaving various things to us and our kids, but I STILL tell DW to avoid those discussions, since her sibling have pretty much gone into "vulture circling" mode (even though MIL is still in very good health) - all due to focusing on MIL's money which they each think they "deserve" and "need".

So... this is long than I intended, but wanted to explain the danger, as I see it, of even *thinking* about what Mom and Dad might leave you. Divorce, illness, etc. can change things over time. Thinking about what one might get distracts one from focusing on doing what you can on your own, and leads to temptation to say "I don't need to save as much" -but one cannot assume YOUR circumstances won't change either, which can then increasing the longing for the "inheritance".

The best thing in my view, to echo what some others have said - put it put of your mind. Don't think on it. Focus on your own means. Shoot for investing and saving 25-30% or more instead of 15-17%. Then you won't be depending on the lure of a future inheritance. And if it does come? Then it is a bonus.

[Pilot2013]

I think I don't agree with most on here.... Not that I would initiate a discussion about inheritance, but I think EVERY family should discuss finances, and financial matters. The "old way" was that parents don't discuss how much they make, what they spend, how they plan, insurance, wills, trusts, any of it. And how do the kids learn a frickin' thing!

Talk to them. If for no other reason than to learn how they made things work so well for themselves! I agree with a previous poster that you should find out information on accounts, insurance, etc. And to let them know how well you are doing and get ideas to improve from them as they are obviously pretty savvy, unless they earned it the old fashioned way... inheritance!

[eta2020]

I am pretty sure there will be more then 4 Million in today’s dollars left after I am gone.

I have no problem to leave it with "successful" child. I teach my child basiscs of investing and LBYM a if things continue going as they did so far she will be worthy that money.

I would not leave it to some bum who is waiting for it though. . If she is smart she should not count on it...... and I will try to reward smartness.

When she pays attention I try to teach her few basic things about money. It is more about control then some kind of money intelligence.

[marko]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pilot2013 I think I don't agree with most on here.... Not that I would initiate a discussion about inheritance, but I think EVERY family should discuss finances, and financial matters. The "old way" was that parents don't discuss how much they make, what they spend, how they plan, insurance, wills, trusts, any of it. And how do the kids learn a frickin' thing!

The OP was asking specifically about if he should broach the subject of what his inheritance might be.

At some point in life, I believe that most children of multi-generational wealth are clued in as to what/where/how of the family finances; specific inheritance amounts being another story altogether.

[sheehs1]

One additional thing I would like to point out to the OP, IF he is still reading is to not ignore the affects of taxation or the Unified Tax Credit ceiling (the amount that can pass to heirs without federal and state taxation).
.
While it is currently 5.34 million (total net worth of the 2nd to die, which has to include any net worth of a marital trust), there is nothing carved in stone that says it has to stay at this level. In 2001, it was as low as $600,000, in 2002 it was a million, in 2006 it was 2 million.

In essence, the final estate may owe upwards of 55% to federal and states governments for estates in excess of the current Unified Tax Credit amount.

My point is no one knows what it may be in the future. It is pretty much unprecedented that it is currently $5.34 million. There is a lot of controversy around it. Who knows if there will be a UTC 20 years from now or if they will just tax everything. We just don't know. Just be aware of this potential "gotcha"!.

http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estate..._United_States