Financial documentation in case of death

[CaptTom]

What good is online access ( username and password) if you are not legally authorized to act.

I had a SIL pass away with no preparation. Even without many assets, simple things like paying her electric bill were a challenge for the family, prior to being appointed.

Even then, getting access by going to the bank and presenting the required documents was much more of a hassle than simply knowing the ID and password.

 

[splitwdw]

If my son has POA, would he be able to get his own access to the account, or would he use my access? What if I've forgotten the userid/pw to the account before he realizes he should be using POA? Maybe he just wants to monitor my account weekly to make sure I haven't done anything crazy, or been hacked.

On death, there's less reason, but it still seems easier to have online access than paper, if for no other reason than to make sure the institution hasn't missed an account if I hold multiple there. Also for importing data for the last year of taxes.

If you have a Fidelity account you can give anyone authorized access to your accounts. No POA needed for 3 of the access authorizations. It's probably the same with other investment companies like Vanguard or Schwab. As I noted on another post there are 4 levels of access on Fidelity. https://www.fidelity.com/customer-service/account-access-rights-overview

 

[donheff]

I am setup similarly to the OP - a comprehensive document that tells DW and the kids where what is, how I manage withdrawals, etc. The "keys to the kingdom" as others described them are in Password Safe, PS also has notes so there is a lot of useful info about various accounts. I have a hint in my financial exit document that will clue DW and my daughter to the password for Password Safe. I am sure they could sort things out without online access and they will lose access as soon as they notify the account holders but I still think it is worthwhile having brief access. If nothing else I would like DW to be able to stop auto pays from a CC where I am the primary account holder and switch it to hers so they will continue unabated (and vice versus for some where she is primary). Interestingly, a CC phone agent suggested that the survivor(s) do that online if I was to die and didn't seem to realize that was technically prohibited use of login credentials. She specifically mentioned transferring or cashing in miles from a Sapphire Preferred account. A little housekeeping like that is not likely to raise flags or problems. But I would not recommend major changes (like moving thousands of dollars after death. Joint accounts or POD designations on critical accounts are a sensible way to make transition funds available immediately. I have well over 100 accounts and passwords listed in PS. Who knows what interesting trivia a survivor could dig up browsing through all that junk. Maybe you will see my good humored son posting spooky messages here after my demise.

Edit: maybe we should add instructions for heirs to post a humorous (or straight) obituary in forums where we are active. Otherwise we are all going to just fade away with no goodbye in the coming years.

 

[Spock]

My wife have done this (planning for one of us to not be here someday), and continue to maintain it.

In addition to the obvious problem of having all of the passwords written down in a document, passwords can and will change over time. Hard to maintain.

My wife and I use lastpass - we share some passwords using lastpass (like netflix). If I update my netflix, she gets the update via sharing.

Others, like my google account, my banking account and such - we do not share. However, the master password for each of us is in a lockbox. It is there not only for eachother - but also for our executor in the event of our both passing. lastpass has all of our accounts listed, along with the website url and the credentials.

Password managers (in this instance LastPass) have the same security risks any other software has:
https://www.zdnet.com/article/lastpass-bug-leaks-credentials-from-previous-site/

 

[target2019]

Password managers (in this instance LastPass) have the same security risks any other software has:
https://www.zdnet.com/article/lastpass-bug-leaks-credentials-from-previous-site/

That is true. Also important that the extension was updated before the article came out.

 

[Spock]

I don't understand the concern with writing down a password.
The sheet of paper my technically challenged wife keeps in her "Bible box" (a box of must keep documents that travels with us if we move, etc) is more secure than anything exposed to the world wide interweb.


My dad is rapidly sliding into dementia. While beneficiaries, etc on accounts are good, they are only useful when somebody dies. They are useless when trying to manage accounts for the incapacitated.

While I have POA for Dad's affairs, so far I find a POA next to worthless. Institutions require their own unique form. Just last week we ran into the case where Dad messed up his online access to his checking account.
Even though I am a) Joint on the account and b) co-trustee of the trust the account is held in and c) had a copy of the POA document, I could do nothing with the account... online nor in person. Since Dad can't receive text messages on his phone AND he forgot his PIN, I had to physically haul him into a branch... which was a freakin zoo. Even in the physical branch the banker could not reset access... at the bankers direction I had to try to login to his account using the web browser (not the app) on my smartphone because the banker could not do it from her desktop. It was only a stroke of luck that Dad blurted out a different PIN number that worked (and he said it was the wrong PIN).

As far as it being "wrong" to use somebody elses uid/pw to access accounts... well... its also wrong to drive 66mph in a 65 zone. It is far more secure to arrange a transfer of the above sheet of paper with a list of accounts/uid/pw's than it is to give an executor their own account access. As time goes by and relationships change I will likely change executors multiple times. I've tried to play the game by the institutions rule book: Joint account owner, co-trustee of the trust owning the account, and POA and I STILL can't admin his account.



Lastly a comment on incapacitation: I found out last month that going to court and spending 5K to get somebody legally declared incompetent is also next to worthless.
Google "testamentary capacity" and "orientated x4". As long as somebody still knows who his family/heirs are, even when declared legally incompetent to handle their affairs, they can still go and change their wills, trusts, revoke POA's, and take over any hidden bank accounts you setup on their behalf to pay their bills.
The "system" relies on the ward not being aware they have these rights.

 

[donheff]

Password managers (in this instance LastPass) have the same security risks any other software has:
https://www.zdnet.com/article/lastpass-bug-leaks-credentials-from-previous-site/

Password Safe is a standalone app. The "safe" itself is an encrypted file that can be kept anywhere. I keep it on Dropbox and periodically back it up locally and elsewhere. By keeping the master safe in the cloud I can update it from any device I open it from. I'm not sure whether that is more, less, or about as secure as Lastpass and other apps. They undoubtedly keep your password file encrypted and I assume don't keep a copy of your password. If that is the case a hacker could access your account login ID but not your data.

 

[gauss]

Avoid getting electronic statements then everything you need should come in the US Mail. No need for online access if you are following the legal processes that exist and you have authority to access the accounts.

 

[target2019]

Password Safe is a standalone app. The "safe" itself is an encrypted file that can be kept anywhere. I keep it on Dropbox and periodically back it up locally and elsewhere. By keeping the master safe in the cloud I can update it from any device I open it from. I'm not sure whether that is more, less, or about as secure as Lastpass and other apps. They undoubtedly keep your password file encrypted and I assume don't keep a copy of your password. If that is the case a hacker could access your account login ID but not your data.

Password and file are encrypted. In situations where law enforcement was involved, they can't comply, as they have no access to your pass or storage.

For a while we were using 1Password with Dropbox storage shared between family members. That works too.

 

[kaneohe]

.......................... If nothing else I would like DW to be able to stop auto pays from a CC where I am the primary account holder and switch it to hers so they will continue unabated ...........................

a good reminder that not only is the account info. important, but what to do with it as well. Don't know if these things happen automatically because the financial companies scour death notices:

if both spouses are on SS, the survivor needs to transition to the survivor benefit and stop the other; if on a pension, survivor needs to notify the company so the appropriate survivor pension is received (50% or whatever was chosen).

If bills are on autopay from bank, bank account needs to be replenished w/ enough cash periodically so the bills get paid. If the bills are paid from a brokerage margin account, the bills will continue to be paid even w/o cash but margin interest will be charged unless survivor is aware of what is happening.
Challenging stuff if only one spouse has handled the finances.

Similar challenges regarding the payment of estimated taxes and I'm sure there are more............

 

[GravitySucks]

Store Cards. DW was a JC Penny super shopper. 3 calls and one letter till the monthly 0 balance notices stopped coming. Out of the blue one came 3 years later with a charge on it. 3 more years now and I'm hoping it's resolved but keep an eye on the mail. Everything back by Visa/MasterCard resolved easily.

No one has my passwords. DDs know the account numbers and who I bank and trade with. Creditors can wait till the estate is settled. Let them sue a dead man.

This is a good reminder thread though. I will put my Fido Advisor name and number with my POA documents. Don't want to be hospitalized with no way to get cash.

 

[Sunset]

I don't understand the concern with writing down a password.
The sheet of paper my technically challenged wife keeps in her "Bible box" (a box of must keep documents that travels with us if we move, etc) is more secure than anything exposed to the world wide interweb.

....

Besides the fact that some places require passwords to be changed.

There is the real danger that someone in a person's life (housekeeper, friend, child of a friend, neighbor drug addict, relative, own child, repair person, cleaner, etc) would learn over the years of the "Bible box". One day, slip in a steal it, or take a photo of the papers, and then all your money disappears.

 

[gayl]

I have a bunch of beneficiaries. 2 on life insurance provided by pension (yeah that's weird) & pension buyback allocation, 2 on the house & 2 accounts at Schwab, 8 on the big account there, 2 at USAA. Schwab & USAA under Totten Trusts (POD / TOD) so that's on autopilot with original death certs. Personal items have a 1/2 page handwritten document witnessed by 2 of my sisters accompanied by handwritten notes to my son beneath it. So in my case it doesn't have to be fancy. I'm single

Only complication is that I loaned (yes it's notarized with a copy of his tax return that year) my daughter's bf the downpayment for their place. She's not on the deed or loan (he handles that) so I want them paid back (or give a 1099C) if I die bf its retitled. I'll tear it up if it's retitled.

 

[kgtest]

A lot of articles I’ve read suggest creating a document that details all things financial for your survivors, including usernames and passwords to banks, brokerages, etc. While I completely understand the utility of such a document (and as my father’s executor, I would find this incredibly helpful when he passes) the security risks give me agita. I’m a retired CIO (IT management), and account security has always been top priority for me.

I have a printed out financial plan that explains our accounts, investing philosophy, withdrawal and tax strategies, etc., but I am loathe to put usernames and passwords in a printout. I keep login info in a password vault, and I’m loathe to print out the access info for that, too.

The good news is that my partner has her own accounts and will be fine for years without accessing my money, so if there is a lot of rigamarole getting access, it will be just annoying.

I’m interested to hear what folks do about this.

Google Sheets. If it's hacked, we have some problems. Haven't had an issue yet. Although I am super happy we have a retired CIO on the forum now...WELCOME!

DW and the USB drive in the safe at the post office are the only two people that I presume know it. If I get divorced, sure we will have problems....we will never need to thankfully.

 

[Spock]

Besides the fact that some places require passwords to be changed.

There is the real danger that someone in a person's life (housekeeper, friend, child of a friend, neighbor drug addict, relative, own child, repair person, cleaner, etc) would learn over the years of the "Bible box". One day, slip in a steal it, or take a photo of the papers, and then all your money disappears.

changes: Its nothing to update the list once a quarter.

risks:
no kids
no house keeper
no relatives within 1500 miles
no friends with kids, no guests of any kind enter the room where its kept.
repair person is only on site when I am home and there is nothing to repair in the room where the box is kept.
Neighborhood druggie is probably going to take the TV and not look for a box that a Bible was shipped in.

If you have an exposed life then maybe a physical list isn't a good thing. For us, my wife can't copy/paste or log into facebook by herself. She requires a physical list and I've arranged for a tech+$ literate executor/advisor that she can take this list to so he can handle stuff as the wife wishes.

 

[Finance Dave]

We just went through this last year. We have a spreadsheet that lists account name, account number, institution, contact name, beneficiary, contact phone, balance as of creation date, username and password to log in, and then a comments section that tells any key notes. This spreadsheet is part of our documentation that our executor has. THis also was combined with a detailed review of all our beneficiaries to make sure we had them set right.

We have another "section" in the same spreadsheet for other "assets" such as cars, expensive items, rental properties with the addresses/tenants/etc. Details about where documents are kept, approximate values, what we want done with them, etc.

Our estate "binder" is about 40 pages long...with wills, health care proxies, asset lists, password lists, people to contact if we die, funeral arrangements, obituaries, note to the spouse, and other items. My executor has a copy and physicians have copies of the health care proxies.

 

[MuirWannabe]

We use LastPass. Our daughters also use LastPass for their vault. We just keep each other’s LastPass password in our vault so we have it if ever needed. Will work good upon our demise also.

 

[Splash]

We split our time between 3 residences. Much of the year we move back and forth between 2 of the residences. To avoid having sensitive information sitting in a mailbox and to make payments convenient we have moved everything possible to electronic delivery and auto payment. As a result, our kids will not be able to gather information from our mailbox should we become incapacitated.

Annually we update a document which includes financial and other helpful information and put it in our safe deposit box. Our son is a legal owner of our safe deposit box, along with us, so he will be able to access the box when needed.