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Old 01-21-2012, 09:41 AM   #81
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And there are about 700,000 or so "licensed reps" in the USA. Almost 500,000 are so-called "insurance agents, or "planners", who have a Series 6 license if that, a fair number just have a life insurance license. Most reps are not fiduciaries, although they try to talk the talk. Some of us are fiduciaries......... I work with a moderate size RIA. We have 2 CFAs on staff, we only use investment policy statements, our team has 2 CFPs and and an MBA grad from Tuck. There are only about 200,000-250,000 people in the USA that hold a Series 7 and a Series 66 license. Since you are a part of the very industry you denounce, that seems a little self-serving itself.........
I was a buy side analyst at a fund that exclusively managed money for institutions and a few qualified investors, so I was not part of the retail fleecing of customers.

Firms like yours are fine and set up to be on the level. Brokers and insurance agents should be held to a fiduciaries standard because most retail investors do not understand the difference between suitability and fiduciary.
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Old 01-21-2012, 10:14 AM   #82
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One can also use the Bogleheards forum which is arguably the best place on the internet for free investment advice):
Just our opinion, but they are just too VG centeic.

While my DW/me have funds in VG, it's not the only "universe" in which we invest.

VG is just one provider to add to the recipe for our "retirement fondue", but it is certainly not the only ingredient for a successful (financial) retirement, which we have achieved.

Just our simple POV.
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Old 01-21-2012, 10:39 AM   #83
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There is no doubt in my mind that a good financial planner can be an asset to many people. Often they point out things we are not aware of - most of us don't know what we don't know, so we neve ask the right questions. A good planner can help one make one's investments more tax efficient, last longer, and should help one avoid being ripped off by scammers.

With that said, anybody looking for a planner should read the book "Where Are the Customer's Yachts." My 2 cents.
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Old 01-21-2012, 10:58 AM   #84
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Just our opinion, but they are just too VG centeic.
Well, the forum is called "Bogleheads" instead of "Investoheads" or "Frugalheads"...
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Old 01-21-2012, 11:16 AM   #85
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Well, the forum is called "Bogleheads" instead of "Investoheads" or "Frugalheads"...
Hey, I'm looking for "island heads"..

BTW, still will be in Maui in late April to look at a condo, as we previously communicated on.

Also, I was a long time poster but left the forum due to the VG "religion" (I believe you spoke to Mel to validate my comments/presence on the forum). Unfortunately, the forum has a lot to offer, but I'm the kind of person raised in one faith/belief (as the forum is), but as I became an "elder" found that there are "many paths to Dublin" (as on on the VG forum would often quote).

That includes other investment companies (and even forums) to consider, if one wishes to keep an "open mind"....
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Old 01-21-2012, 11:16 AM   #86
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We have less than 15% of our assets at Vanguard, so I guess we have the same POV as rescueme. That does not detract from the benefit of Bogleheads for me.

I do think that even this forum has shifted over the years to be more Vanguard-centric around here as well.
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Old 01-21-2012, 11:34 AM   #87
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This topic is of interest to me since I'm in somewhat the same predicament but I hesitate in posting to this thread since I noticed there are a few sharp teeth wondering around. Maybe I should start my own thread, but I need to find a few bouncers first.

Bbbam1, you know of any?
You rang?

As with any sharp teeth, always ignore the bark.

I used a CFP (fee only) planner back in 2002 where I knew just enough to know I didn't know enough at all.
We co-wrote up a statement of work, agreed on a price and deliverables, and I got the best soup-to-nuts CUSTOM analysis of my husband's and my financial situation.
I knew what I was paying for, i.e. no mysteries. I provided the data and documents, the senior CFP and a junior CFP-in-training did the w*rk. I knew the senior guy was doing the w*rk himself because our telephone conversations were always between he and I, in great detail.
I had already read several investing books, but I needed professional help to tie it all together. I have been a DIYer ever since.

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Old 01-21-2012, 01:00 PM   #88
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Hey, I'm looking for "island heads"..
BTW, still will be in Maui in late April to look at a condo, as we previously communicated on.
I think by then the realtors will be sufficiently desperate. Especially on the "upper west side" and the "less popular" parts of the island.

We're looking at a Haleakala trip in late May but we'll be on the Mainland near the end of April.

If you plan to be in the Kahului/Wailuku area for a day or two you could try sending a PM to JB. He hasn't posted here in years but he might still be interested in a Maui E-R.org chapter meeting. Otherwise you might have to take out a new charter.

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Also, I was a long time poster but left the forum due to the VG "religion" (I believe you spoke to Mel to validate my comments/presence on the forum). Unfortunately, the forum has a lot to offer, but I'm the kind of person raised in one faith/belief (as the forum is), but as I became an "elder" found that there are "many paths to Dublin" (as on on the VG forum would often quote).
Their "new" software is a lot easier on the eye, but I still end up having to wade through over 100 posts per day. Along with updating a blog, scanning a Twitter feed, moderating another discussion board... something always falls off the daily "To Do" list and Bogleheads is usually the first to fall.
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Old 01-21-2012, 01:46 PM   #89
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Here is the problem with your smirking, self-satisfied answer: car dealers are not supposed to be fiduciaries to their customers, while advisors are. The whole premise that it is OK for clients to be banged in the bakehole by an advisor selling them overpriced crap just because the client doesn't know any better is EXACTLY what is wrong with the financial sales advice industry.
Good news, another person I can agree with. Most customers do not understand financial planning. Then are sold the wrong instruments.
And then still do not understand why they lost their retirement fund. When they paid a FP for advice.
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Old 01-21-2012, 05:50 PM   #90
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I consulted 2 FP (One fee only, the other the representative of the firm handling the retirement accounts at my work place) about my ER plans to make sure there wasn't something overlooked following the old saying of "you don't know what you don't know" and both sources told me my plan looked sound and much to my surprise had no suggestions for any substantive changes. ER soon followed in December 2002 and so far so good.

The surprising thing is that Net Worth projections they both provided based on my portfolio at the time turned out to be very conservative even with the recent big recession. Good to see some FP follow a really conservative approach.
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Old 01-22-2012, 06:27 PM   #91
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Good news, another person I can agree with. Most customers do not understand financial planning. Then are sold the wrong instruments.
And then still do not understand why they lost their retirement fund. When they paid a FP for advice.
So, I don't understand real estate all that well. If I bought a condo in Arizona in 2007 and paid $250,000 for it, why is it worth only $65,000 now? And, I definitely PAID someone for the advice to buy that condo.........
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Old 01-22-2012, 07:32 PM   #92
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So, I don't understand real estate all that well. If I bought a condo in Arizona in 2007 and paid $250,000 for it, why is it worth only $65,000 now? And, I definitely PAID someone for the advice to buy that condo.........
Another reason not to use so called advisors.
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Old 01-22-2012, 07:46 PM   #93
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So, I don't understand real estate all that well. If I bought a condo in Arizona in 2007 and paid $250,000 for it, why is it worth only $65,000 now? And, I definitely PAID someone for the advice to buy that condo.........
This cannot be.Or the people who have been telling me that real esate can only go up might be wrong.
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Old 01-22-2012, 11:48 PM   #94
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Another reason not to use so called advisors.
Thank you. Your logic is perfect. Supports are views.
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Old 01-23-2012, 07:44 AM   #95
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Its the internet, you need to separate the fact from the fiction and the fact from the opinion.
It's difficult to determine the so called fact from fiction when you're not educated enough to know the difference.
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As with any sharp teeth, always ignore the bark.
And I can appreciate that but unfortunately I don't have the thick skin needed to handle some of the comment, I guess that's my problem and will learn to deal with it.

In a nutshell and again I don't mean to take away from this thread, but it would appear we maybe getting rid of/firing our maybe 14th FP/FA.

Thanks for the replies.
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Old 01-23-2012, 08:48 AM   #96
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It's difficult to determine the so called fact from fiction when you're not educated enough to know the difference.
And I can appreciate that but unfortunately I don't have the thick skin needed to handle some of the comment, I guess that's my problem and will learn to deal with it.

In a nutshell and again I don't mean to take away from this thread, but it would appear we maybe getting rid of/firing our maybe 14th FP/FA.

Thanks for the replies.
I agree fact from fiction is tough to figure out, because to some people, there is more than one layer of truth. I also think some people don't do enough due dilligence when choosing an advisor. Like interviewing more than 1, asking questions which allow a BS detector to go off, or clearly stating goals.
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Old 01-23-2012, 09:05 AM   #97
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In a nutshell and again I don't mean to take away from this thread, but it would appear we maybe getting rid of/firing our maybe 14th FP/FA.
Are you serious? After two or three failures I would think anyone would decide it is time to figure this out for themselves. Fourteen would seem to fit Einstein's definition of insanity.
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Old 01-23-2012, 09:14 AM   #98
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I also think some people don't do enough due dilligence when choosing an advisor. Like interviewing more than 1, asking questions which allow a BS detector to go off, or clearly stating goals.
Let's take a different spin on this. Why is it that so many people are getting ripped off when having automotive service work done? Is it because owners aren't educated enough about how an engine/suspension/drive train works, or is it because they haven't done enough due diligence in choosing an automotive repair shop? There was a recent survey done on automotive shops, and out of around 30 that were researched, in there opinion 25 failed by attempting to sell more then what was needed to do that particular repair. Now what if the owner of said car did research and went to 10 of those 25 that failed, would that be considered due diligence since they took the time to check out 10 auto shops? Unfortunately all 10 would have failed according to the research.

I don't want to open up a can of worms.........but, I can appreciate how people can get taken by auto shops since a car can be overwhelming to repair for some if not most people and I understand that. In my case I can spot the shops that try to rip people off since I've been repairing my cars for most of my life and I can spot within seconds those that try to talk the talk, therefor the so called bs detector sounds loud and clear.

I feel like my friend when it comes to financial advisors/planners and it's not because I haven't interviewed enough advisors, unless some believe 40 advisors from 8 different institutions is not near enough.

Am I missing something in the translation?

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Are you serious? After two or three failures I would think anyone would decide it is time to figure this out for themselves. Fourteen would seem to fit Einstein's definition of insanity.
Should I say to my friend, are you serious, after three failed attempts I would think it's time for you to figure out how to repair your own car. In other words, diagnose your own problems and repair the car yourself. Any idea how my friend would react to that advise?

Oh and doneff, I've tried to figure it out myself, as a matter of fact I've been a member of The Financial Webring forum since 2007 and have left several times since I needed to get a thicker layer of skin before returning.

I'm hoping I can learn from this thread rather then feel it's 10 against me, after all...... I left my knife at home.
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Old 01-23-2012, 09:37 AM   #99
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In a nutshell and again I don't mean to take away from this thread, but it would appear we maybe getting rid of/firing our maybe 14th FP/FA.
Are you serious? After two or three failures I would think anyone would decide it is time to figure this out for themselves. Fourteen would seem to fit Einstein's definition of insanity.

+15!

Really, going through 14 planners must be telling you something?

Seriously, it's so much easier to just do some simple balanced plan on your own (a few funds, or just a target fund), and you really can't go far wrong (and probably won't go wrong at all). And most likely less wrong than a string of advisers you had to fire.

And has been said many times, by the time you know enough to know if your adviser is any good, you know enough to DIY (unless you have some especially complex issues).

RE: your reply to donheff on 14 advisers:

Quote:
Should I say to my friend, are you serious, after three failed attempts I would think it's time for you to figure out how to repair your own car. In other words, diagnose your own problems and repair the car yourself. Any idea how my friend would react to that advise?

But learning about cars from scratch (if you had no exposure to it as you grew up), or learning how to remodel a bathroom is very tough. Learning what the average person needs to know for their investments can be learned in 10 minutes. Buy a target fund, or split across a few basic index funds, or google "Couch Potato Portfolio":

Quote:
The Couch Potato Portfolio
The original Couch Potato Portfolio strategy included investing half of the investor's assets in a Standard & Poor's 500 Index fund and half in a fund mirroring the Shearson/Lehman Intermediate Bond Index. Burns used the Vanguard 500 Index and Vanguard Total Bond Fund Index.

How tough is that? You can be done before you could even open your tool box!


-ERD50
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Old 01-23-2012, 09:59 AM   #100
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But learning about cars from scratch (if you had no exposure to it as you grew up), or learning how to remodel a bathroom is very tough. Learning what the average person needs to know for their investments can be learned in 10 minutes. Buy a target fund, or split across a few basic index funds, or google "Couch Potato Portfolio":


-ERD50
ERD50, I've remodeled two complete bathrooms (thread is in this forum)and didn't find it near as difficult as learning how to invest. Reason being is I believe I'm mechanically inclined and it comes easy for me. Rebuilding my first engine came easy for me as well as my first major home reno but I wouldn't consider saying to you or any other member, that it's easier then dong your own investing, since I'm not in your shoes.

ERD50, if you tried to install a thermostatic shower system and totally remodel your bathroom, I wouldn't downplay the work involved even though I think the average person can do it with assistance. Don't you think being a member of FWF since 2007 isn't an attempt to learn it myself.
Again if my friend made an attempt to learn how to repair there own car and failed my advise wouldn't be it's easier then doing your own investing since I don't know how mechanically inclined they are.

On the automotive forum that I belong to, you'd be amazed at how many people can't diagnose a no start, even when we walk them through it. Yes we don't think anyone can do it. Some people take much longer to wrap there head around diagnostics. I'm not saying I'll never learn how to do my own investing, I'm just finding it much harder and longer to wrap my head around the whole concept.

Again, I don't want to feel that each reply of mine is an attempt to defend myself since I won't learn anything from that. If that's the case then there is no need to reply to this thread anymore.

Reading back through my post, based on the replies....... I don't think my message came across.
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