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Financial Pros/Cons of being Married/Single in Retirement
01-16-2017, 05:16 PM
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#1
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Cottage Grove
Posts: 212
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Financial Pros/Cons of being Married/Single in Retirement
Hypothetically, we have a couple very much in love and living together and they will continue to do so until the day one of them dies. Would it be better for them financially to be married or single? I realize that different lifetime income levels would factor in but lets assume they were always within 10-20% of each other's incomes. Where do they win and where do they lose for being married?
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01-16-2017, 07:25 PM
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#2
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Huntsville, AL/Helen, GA
Posts: 6,002
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#1 would be income taxes are cheaper on married filing together.
Often, spouses will have income from a previous spouse that may be discontinued when they get married--as in alimony. Or other income sources may cease when they get married, and I've seen long term cohabitation in those circumstances.
My friend has a mother that lived with a boyfriend for 25 years, and she had a low income job. He died, and she was literally put out in the streets with little social security and no pension to live on. Now, the lady's wheel chair bound and my friend's going to have to move her into her house and provide 24 hour care. It's just not fair that the man she took care of left her with nothing. It's not uncommon, unfortunately. She has no funds to get into a nursing home.
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01-16-2017, 07:37 PM
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#3
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Santa Paula
Posts: 4,067
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Here is our story: Both our spouses passed away in 2005. In 2006 we were both single and the income taxes killed me. My wife had no income other than her husband's SS and a small survivor's pension.
We married in late 2007, and since she was over 60 she did not lose his SS or her pension. Even combining all that, MFJ was a lots less expensive, taxwise.
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01-16-2017, 07:42 PM
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#4
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,430
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I'm single, so am only guessing. Although it seems as though many financial things are more favorable for married folks
Would they be able to collect on each other's SS? (If either were married previously, they may get a better deal claiming on spouse #1 SS).
Would they be able to file taxes MFJ?
Aren't married (MFJ) folk's tax brackets higher, thus allowing them to take advantage of Roth conversions, etc.?
If either are pension-eligible, are they able to leave their pension (Or a %-age thereof) to the spouse, if married?
Are either of them getting employer-provided healthcare for which the other one would become eligible, if married?
omni
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01-16-2017, 07:55 PM
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#5
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Independence
Posts: 7,271
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Long term unmarried couple here. Pretty much everything we own is titled joint with right of survivorship, so no concern about a survivor being tossed to the curb. Paltry SS benefits, no pensions. I thought we had the better tax status, maybe I'm wrong. One itemizes and the other takes standard deduction. We adjust our incomes by having one or the other declare interest income from loans and try to make SS cutoffs work for us, but don't go crazy. Enough income comes in we can be sloppy.
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01-16-2017, 09:00 PM
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#6
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Cottage Grove
Posts: 212
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In my hypothetical, both people have earned about the same amount of money throughout their lives before they retired and I'm assuming they have about the same amount of savings.
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01-16-2017, 09:03 PM
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#7
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gone traveling
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,375
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What's the marriage tax penalty then?
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01-16-2017, 09:16 PM
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#8
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Nashville
Posts: 2,504
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Not so much "they," but are either of them over the estate tax exclusion limit? Their heirs may care.
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OMY * 3 2ish Done 7.28.17
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01-16-2017, 09:18 PM
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#9
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Cottage Grove
Posts: 212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2017ish
Not so much "they," but are either of them over the estate tax exclusion limit? Their heirs may care.
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Good question. Will it matter if they are married or not?
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01-17-2017, 06:27 AM
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#10
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 11,313
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I suspect the financials would vary enormously depending on the specifics. If DW was to die I doubt the tax implications would be my primary consideration in a decision to marry or not. My inclination would be to avoid marriage for a variety of reasons but if I got several years into living together I would at least look into the financial benefits of both approaches. If I ever chose marriage I would be very careful with prenups and trusts. The main advantage I could see would be leaving my Fed pension survivor annuity to a new significant other. Maybe I could sell it .
__________________
Idleness is fatal only to the mediocre -- Albert Camus
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01-17-2017, 08:17 AM
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#11
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: the prairies
Posts: 5,021
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gerntz
What's the marriage tax penalty then?
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Is there one? I may be wrong, but as far as I know, there is no tax advantage to being single. In fact, they are penalized because couples and families enjoy some tax advantages that are unavailable to single people. Single people also can't designate a spousal equivalent for SS, but they contribute at the same rate as married people.
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01-17-2017, 08:28 AM
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#12
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Nashville
Posts: 2,504
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Music Lover
Is there one? I may be wrong, but as far as I know, there is no tax advantage to being single. In fact, they are penalized because couples and families enjoy some tax advantages that are unavailable to single people. Single people also can't designate a spousal equivalent for SS, but they contribute at the same rate as married people.
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Yes. For example, two individuals with relatively similar incomes are indeed tax penalized if they marry. On balance, the Code and other laws favor marrieds, but there are many exceptions. (We've been in this situation for a long time; tried to get DW to agree to a paper divorce in 1992, but she didn't want to go there.)
Middle son and his partner are in holding pattern (after starting relationship at 19) because they both are high wage earners. Tax hit would be noticeable. Eldest and his wife ran spreadsheets and found only a .2% penalty so they got married ....
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OMY * 3 2ish Done 7.28.17
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01-17-2017, 08:32 AM
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#13
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Nashville
Posts: 2,504
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If one (but not both) is over the estate tax exclusion, marriage would enable them to set up an estate plan to use the portability provisions to exclude a bit more than 10,000,000, rather than a bit more than 5,000,000, from estate taxation. So it would matter, and could benefit the heirs.
If they are both over, they probably are already consulting with estate planning counsel.
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OMY * 3 2ish Done 7.28.17
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01-17-2017, 08:40 AM
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#14
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,778
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Married people get all kinds of financial breaks that singles don't. I don't have a list, but there are plenty; I read about them in a book called Singled Out.
However, single people get to make their own financial decisions. To me personally, that's more important than any financial advantages.
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01-17-2017, 09:18 AM
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#15
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,535
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bamaman
My friend has a mother that lived with a boyfriend for 25 years, and she had a low income job. He died, and she was literally put out in the streets with little social security and no pension to live on. Now, the lady's wheel chair bound and my friend's going to have to move her into her house and provide 24 hour care. It's just not fair that the man she took care of left her with nothing. It's not uncommon, unfortunately. She has no funds to get into a nursing home.
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She could go to court to prove "common law" marriage and get his SS.
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01-17-2017, 09:28 AM
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#16
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Beach and Mountain
Posts: 1,086
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I am going to assume a second marriage. I am going to assume they have wills that leave everything to each other upon passing. I am going to assume there were kids in each 1st marriage. Second to pass always finds some way to hate/alienate kids from deceased spouses first marriage. Therefore, those kids get nothing from will of second to pass.
Yes, this can also happen with an unmarried couple, but married couples tend to mix those finances. In either case, this is a problem with small estates. Larger estates, not so much. And yes, this is a common set of assumptions.
Hence, one more situation where single (and separate finances) is better.
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01-17-2017, 09:38 AM
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#17
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 1,008
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There are probably some non-direct tax issues with staying single but joining your lives as a couple. I've heard about these from gay couples that I know though for them some of this is in the past since they can now marry. If you know a gay couple they might be the best source of getting this setup right.
There are difficulties when commingling your assets. One is gift tax issues if you buy property or other large items together but one of the parties puts up the money or more of it. If you want it to be equally owned then the one that put up more of the money has to gift to the other the remaining share. For example, buy a $200,000 house and one party pays for it all. They would then need to gift the other party $100,000 of house. That will take a number of years at $14,000 per year or you can use up some of your estate tax limit and do it all in one year.
You may run into issues of not being related and the hassles that can cause with financial issues, medical and hospitals, insurance, and a lot of other places. You might not be able to visit or see the person or deal with issues in their place. You can apparently set it up to work like marriage (but not completely) at some expense. Even then somebody on the front line can decide to ignore your setup causing you to have to spend more time and effort to deal with that rather than the issues at hand. Also, your setup may not have legal force in all states or countries.
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01-17-2017, 09:49 AM
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#18
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 47,467
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Sharing money
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johanson
Hypothetically, we have a couple very much in love and living together and they will continue to do so until the day one of them dies. Would it be better for them financially to be married or single? I realize that different lifetime income levels would factor in but lets assume they were always within 10-20% of each other's incomes. Where do they win and where do they lose for being married?
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Honestly, I think this depends SO much on the individual couple and the financial aspects of their marriage agreement. Will they share money and expenses when married, but not when single? I think this what makes the biggest difference.
When I was married, we shared money with joint bank accounts and credit cards and so on. I guess most people do. My ex like to spend as much we had plus as much as we could borrow. So I'd buy things whenever there was money in the bank or on the credit card to be spent, because if I didn't it would be gone.
As a single person living next door to my SO, I do not share money with him or anyone. I spend a lot less because there is no urgency to spend the money before it is gone. I think that would be true if we lived together also, as long as we did not share our money and expenses, and each paid our share of expenses separately.
Not sharing money has the added benefit of eliminating a lot of discord. I really don't care what he spends his money on since it isn't my money.
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01-17-2017, 09:53 AM
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#19
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 12,566
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Or vice versa. Everybody demonizes step-parents, but I've seen one case where the step-kids did the alienating while the first parent was still living; and were rewarded by being cut out of that parent's will. In that case, the stepkids all but demanded their parent get divorced because they didn't like the step-parent; on refusal, they cut off all relations with the couple, cut them for 30+ years, but apparently stalked both parties online to learn when one of them died...
Either way, your point is taken.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z3Dreamer
Second to pass always finds some way to hate/alienate kids from deceased spouses first marriage. Therefore, those kids get nothing from will of second to pass.
r.
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01-17-2017, 12:29 PM
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#20
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Cottage Grove
Posts: 212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ER Eddie
Married people get all kinds of financial breaks that singles don't. I don't have a list, but there are plenty; I read about them in a book called Singled Out.
However, single people get to make their own financial decisions. To me personally, that's more important than any financial advantages.
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This is what I'm looking for...the exact breaks married or single people get. Looking at the differences in tax brackets alone, two single people making $90K per year each, pay a lot less in taxes than a married couple making $180K together. But, two single people making $35K each pay the same tax as a married couple making $70K together. I didn't factor in their standard deductions but I don't think that changes the rates.
2017 Tax Brackets | Tax Foundation
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