FIRE Cover Stories

[Nords]

I found it was easy to ascertain those "Profs" who taught full time vs. those that were "Adjunct instructors". The tenured professors talked about what could be - the Adjuncts not only spoke of what could be, but what was reality in the "real world" ...

I know professors who use their tenure security to commercialize their research via entrepreneurial risks.

But these types of people are unlikely to ever retire, let alone ER...

 

[rescueme]

I know professors who use their tenure security to commercialize their research via entrepreneurial risks.

But these types of people are unlikely to ever retire, let alone ER...

In that case, I tip my hat to them. They are probally able to apply what they teach in the classroom, and that's a good technique.

However, I found in my limited exposure to the "educational elite" that most did not dwell on anything outside of the local campus.

As an example, I had an adjunct who was the instructor of two levels of law (Business), and was acting as a representative of Bethlehem Steel during their "shutdown" period, over many years.

He was not only able to "teach the text", but also was well versed in contract/labor law as it was part of his practice, and interface what was going on in the "commercial" world.

Not to "down" those whose views are only in the academic world, but IMHO (and actual practice) those who brought some "grit" to the table were much better instructors overall...

 

[Keim]

I am an adhunct professor of public speaking. I definitely TRY to bring my real world experience to the table for my students.

Just yesterday I got to say "Yes, I know random selection of speaking times causes stress and, yes, not being in class the day your name is drawn to give your speech will get you an F. Each speech is 10% of your grade. Yes, I know that seems harsh. No, I get no pleasure in being difficult. Do you think businesses let you skip meetings and re-schedule important product pitches because you have the sniffles?"

 

[FinanceDude]

We discussed this in an earlier thread. I've been a lawyer for 35 years. Law (and some other professions) becomes what you are rather than what you do. Lawyers tend to be very competitive people, and aggressively keep score. What surprises some non lawyers is that the scoring is generally not about money. Anyone can make money. We want everyone to know that we are in a situation where our opinions and ideas are valued. That is why we can pay judges half what they would get anywhere else and still get good people, and why lawyers jump at the chance of a Supreme Court pro bono assignment. Hard to let that go. I certainly can't, which is why I am Professor Emeritus

You should mention that fact that once tenured it is nearly impossible to lose your job at a university. That fact alone has kept many folks in academia, at a time when millions are losing their jobs. Granted, some universities have eliminated "non-essential" departments, thus losing some tenured folks, but their DB pensions are still protected.

 

[lowflyer]

Just got around to reading this thread and although I've used the "I'm semi, early-retired" thing many times, wouldn't a "hard-core" ER person be proud to proclaim they are retired? I know it stirs up all manner of response from others, but shouldn't that be part of the joy of ER?

 

[travelover]

My immediate family and in-laws all know that I early retired with a pension, so there is no need for subterfuge there. What they don't know is that if the pension disappeared, I'd still be fine because I planned, saved and invested for the worst case scenario. Makes for a lot fewer loan requests.

 

[Purron]

Just got around to reading this thread and although I've used the "I'm semi, early-retired" thing many times, wouldn't a "hard-core" ER person be proud to proclaim they are retired? I know it stirs up all manner of response from others, but shouldn't that be part of the joy of ER?

I wouldn't consider myself "hard core", but do simply tell people I'm retired. I mention my volunteer work and the fact I'm on the board of a local charity group if they follow up with the "what do you do" question.

I suspect it's a bit easier for me since I'm a woman. We'll see how DH handles it when he retires

 

[haha]

Maybe he didn't go as voluntarily into his own retirement as I was always lead to believe. Makes me glad I've been LBYM so I could be FIRE on short notice if it ever comes to that.

That is possible. It is also possible that he has seen some downside (not necessarily financial) to early retirement.

People who stay here will in general not express negative viewpoints. They can feel how these would be received, and anyway why bother people with things they clearly do not want to hear?

Your father is different, he truly cares about your well being, not about fitting into a virtual social group.

Ha

 

[Culture]

I wish I could convince my wife that our ER should be deep cover. She plans to tell everyone what we are doing, once we do it. I vehemently disagree, but she is sticking to her guns. We will see what actually happens in 3 years and 2 months (age 49).

 

[FIREd]

Just got around to reading this thread and although I've used the "I'm semi, early-retired" thing many times, wouldn't a "hard-core" ER person be proud to proclaim they are retired? I know it stirs up all manner of response from others, but shouldn't that be part of the joy of ER?

I am not a hard-core early retiree. I am not militant about early retirement. I don't even think early-retirement is the best path in life for most people. And I don't feel the need to convince anyone else to retire early. I just don't want to waste time justifying my choices to people who have no business judging those choices. I just want to do my thing and I want people to keep their noses out of it. If it takes a white lie for people to bug out, so be it. If I feel the need to brag about ER, I'll do it here, anonymously.

As people say back in the old country, "to live happy, live hidden".

 

[Nords]

Just got around to reading this thread and although I've used the "I'm semi, early-retired" thing many times, wouldn't a "hard-core" ER person be proud to proclaim they are retired? I know it stirs up all manner of response from others, but shouldn't that be part of the joy of ER?

The point isn't whether or not we're proud.

The point is whether or not we want to continue hearing the words "Yeah, but...", whether we want to keep responding to the implications that we must be rich or liars (or both), whether we want to be used as sounding boards for jealousy & envy, whether we want to discuss "Hey, then you have plenty of time to help us with..." and so on.

The joy of ER comes from not having to put up with these situations.

 

[Emeritus]

Hello Emeritus - in my opinion the same can be said about many professions, including law, medical, engineering etc.

Of course, it simply surprises some people that lawyers routinely value such respect more than money. That physicians and Engineers feel that way surprises few people.

 

[Emeritus]

You should mention that fact that once tenured it is nearly impossible to lose your job at a university. That fact alone has kept many folks in academia, at a time when millions are losing their jobs. Granted, some universities have eliminated "non-essential" departments, thus losing some tenured folks, but their DB pensions are still protected.

OFGS Academics invented the Defined Contribution pension and the vast majority have them Look up the History of TIAA-CREF. I thought your field was finance?
With $15 million, the Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement of Teaching in 1905 founded the Teachers Insurance and Annuity Association (TIAA) in New York City to provide retirement benefits and other forms of financial security to educators. When Carnegie's original endowment was found to be insufficient, another $1 million reorganized the fund into a defined- contribution plan in 1918. TIAA was the first portable pension plan, letting participants change employers without losing benefits and offering a fixed annuity. The fund required infusions of Carnegie cash until 1947.
http://web.archive.org/web/20030811125405/http://burningbush.netfirms.com/TIAA-CREF.html
If you think of being a professor as a job, you have the wrong idea. The pay is low, but the salary is guaranteed. It is a meritocracy (of course merit is defined academically so YMMV). the career is open to anyone who has the talent is willing to take the risk and pay the price. It takes on average 15 years from a BS degree to train a person to a level where they can get tenure at a major research university. That is longer than virtually any other career. Given the high demands and (relatively) low pay, job security and the internal status that comes with academic tenure is key to maintaining our world eminence in academic research. Nobody pays to see the Dean's work. Professors are the lifeblood of the enterprise.

What makes top American academics so special is that they are academic entrepreneurs. Many bring in 2-5 times their salary, and even those who don't are constantly recruiting students and selling the product.
In my entire career I never spent a nickel of state travel money unless I won it in a competitive grant. I got the first NSF grant my department ever got. I never got a nickel to support a graduate student, I brought in all the money to support them.

So its not a job, its a profession and a business. Even today, when I teach, if I don't get enough students I would not get paid. Students are customers, and tough ones. I tell them I have a single goal, to improve their understanding of the field in such way that they become more employable. Every student finishes my course with a personal piece of writing on technology and the law which they can take to potential employers.

 

[Sarah in SC]

So good to see that pension discussions just crop up all over the darned place around here. Fascinating reading, y'all!

 

[lowflyer]

The point isn't whether or not we're proud.

The point is whether or not we want to continue hearing the words "Yeah, but...", whether we want to keep responding to the implications that we must be rich or liars (or both), whether we want to be used as sounding boards for jealousy & envy, whether we want to discuss "Hey, then you have plenty of time to help us with..." and so on.

The joy of ER comes from not having to put up with these situations.

Oh, I get it, for sure. I was at a board meeting tonight for a group I'm involved with and at one point, I told them that I was not going to be around for a couple months this Winter and would be in Florida. I got some very odd reactions. One guy who understands just looked at me, smiled and nodded. Another guy says "Aw, you know these rich, young guys...." It is often easier to simply tell people what they will understand and leave it at that.

 

[Moscyn]

I suspect it's a bit easier for me since I'm a woman. We'll see how DH handles it when he retires

Agree with you there. I just tell people I ER and after the customary "what do you do all day?", I sort of get let off easily. I guess being a woman helps. I think DH will be working until official retirement age and maybe more after that. Thankfully, he likes his job.

Oh, other than "what do you do all day?", I now get a new question "what meaningful things have you been doing?".

 

[Meadbh]

Of course, it simply surprises some people that lawyers routinely value such respect more than money. That physicians and Engineers feel that way surprises few people.

Lawyers value respect more than money? Then they must value respect a lot. I'm currently paying a lawyer for some pretty basic work.....at three times my hourly rate!

 

[Emeritus]

Lawyers value respect more than money? Then they must value respect a lot. I'm currently paying a lawyer for some pretty basic work.....at three times my hourly rate!

Sorry, the respect I am describing comes from peers, not clients.

 

[Katsmeow]

I suspect it's a bit easier for me since I'm a woman. We'll see how DH handles it when he retires

I think it is. Since I ESR'd 6 months ago I have gotten used to being at home during working hours but I still feel a bit odd if a workman comes to the house during working hours. I worked full time during my entire adult life (the longest break was a maternity leave of 2 1/2 months and another of 6 weeks).

I live in an area where many women (particularly moms) don't have jobs. So no one really thinks it odd that I'm at home. I imagine most of them don't thing I'm retired so much as, well, a "housewife." And since that is not a role that I ever really aspired to, I find that I don't want that assumption being made. No one thinks I'm retired -- not because I'm too young (mid-50s) but because I think they don't assume I ever had anything to retire from. DH is 63 and so doesn't get any negative to be retired...

I still work 1 day a week (lawyer). It always interests me as when I'm at work someone inevitably comes up to me and asks "how's retirement" when I'm clearly actually there still working... I do think that being a female does make it more understandable. I just tell people that DH retired and I wanted to be at home with him...

 

[brewer12345]

So good to see that pension discussions just crop up all over the darned place around here. Fascinating reading, y'all!

Didn't you hear? This is now the "political rants about pensions" forum.

 

[rescueme]

Yes, I know that seems harsh. No, I get no pleasure in being difficult. Do you think businesses let you skip meetings and re-schedule important product pitches because you have the sniffles?"

Good 4 U ...

 

[Purron]

Didn't you hear? This is now the "political rants about pensions" forum.

Yeah, I heard. I'm supposed to feel guilty because DH worked 31 years for his modest pension. In the good old days, that was something to respect and be proud of. Now we need a "pension cover story" more than a "FIRE cover story" to deflect political diatribes and negative comments.

 

[NW-Bound]

Didn't you hear? This is now the "political rants about pensions" forum.

Yeah, I heard. I'm supposed to feel guilty because DH worked 31 years for his modest pension. In the good old days, that was something to respect and be proud of. Now we need a "pension cover story" more than a "FIRE cover story" to deflect political diatribes and negative comments.

So good to see that pension discussions just crop up all over the darned place around here. Fascinating reading, y'all!

I made a post here early today, then deleted it. In case some of you had read it earlier, I just want you to know the deletion was my own and not due to a [moderator edit].

Yes, pension gets discussed a lot here, nowadays. I have not been an active participant, but do not see any disrespectful post towards any pensioner, though I know I would be sensitive too, if I were one.

People basically point out bad things that have always been obvious, such as the benefits should not be based on just the last or highest 3 yearly pays with some plans. I read about this many years ago, but do not know if or when anything was done about that. Can you imagine if SS benefits were like that? My private corporation would then hire all of my relatives for 3 years each as my assistant at a really wonderful salary.

Also, people talk about how going forward, due to longer life expectancies, reduced benefits will be needed, or a change to something like a 401k for private sector workers, while leaving current recipients alone. We cannot maintain the status quo and need some changes, because we are going bankrupt! What else do we do?

 

[NW-Bound]

OK, back on the thread topic, which is cover story for early retirement. Mine is on my signature line below. If and when I become an RV bum, I will not even need any cover.

 

[Purron]

I think I'm about done talking about pensions. I realize there's no way I can win in this conversation and am worn down and beaten down. DH and I just gotta look forward and live the rest of our lives. We're too damn old to roll back and make different choices now that pensions are the thing to hate. It wasn't that way 36 years ago when we got married and started out.

Peace.