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Old 09-10-2019, 10:54 PM   #41
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Cash-out refinance

I'll start saving tomorrow

FOMO (insert latest trend/gadget/you name it)
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Old 09-11-2019, 01:09 AM   #42
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We are in the process of renting out our coastal condo and moving to the desert. A family came to view our condo and wanted to pay a year’s rent plus two months rent for security deposit up front in cash because they had bad credit. Their stated income was actually less than our monthly rent. They just sold a property, netted $285K, and were actually going to give us $70K for rent. We passed.
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Old 09-11-2019, 01:09 AM   #43
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Another term:
Reverse mortgage
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Old 09-11-2019, 02:53 AM   #44
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I know plenty of people who live paycheck to paycheck.

What I hear is along the lines of YOLO, money is meant to be enjoyed, enjoy now pay later, I deserve this, work hard play hard, I could always take out a loan, the lottery will solve my problems, spend it now get the raise later, etc... Who knows, they might end up getting more enjoyment out of life than us savers and planners.

A relative recently took my breath away when she declared that she deserved a new living room and that she would buy it on credit even if that meant cutting back on food. In this sentence, she is focusing with glee on "new living room" and I am focusing with horror on "buying on credit even if that meant cutting back on food". Two very different ways to look at the same situation.
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Old 09-11-2019, 05:09 AM   #45
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"Ladies, Liquor (and gambling), Leverage" (Charlie Munger) in all its varied forms.

Palm Beach is full of stories of incredible dynastic wealth evaporating over those three items.

We have a neighbor who blew through over $2MM playing Keno at a local restaurant. She had to sell her house and now pays rent to live in the house she inherited free and clear and lived in her whole life.
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Old 09-11-2019, 07:58 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by GravitySucks View Post
+1 Don't know how they do it, but lots of friends and family enjoying life living day to day.
Sometimes wish I could.
I enjoy life but living day to day (as in cheque to cheque) would take away much of my enjoyment. Living comfortably within my means gives me the most joy and comfort.
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Old 09-11-2019, 08:26 AM   #47
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Retiring before being financially independent
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Old 09-11-2019, 09:19 AM   #48
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I try not to judge. For whatever reason, we're each endowed with different traits. In today's environment, I like to think those who budget and save come out ahead. But look at history. Look around the world. Things can change quickly. Those nimble enough to exist day-to-day without planning or caching resources could outlast us savers. You just never know.

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Retiring before being financially independent
Hmmm. I think that's me. I retired when I thought I'd be able to survive OK without w*rking. As I've said since my first post here, about "shoestring retirement," I never considered myself FI. I'm dependent on a lot of things going right. My pension and my 401k are not infallible. SS is not guaranteed. Affordable health care options are always in doubt.

I'm not sure anyone is ever truly "independent." Look at the Great Depression in the US. Or any of the lesser recessions and boom-and-bust cycles since then. Look at the governments in upheaval, countries with runaway inflation, natural disasters, you name it.

One thing a messy divorce taught me is that there's very little I truly "own." Everything can be taken from you in a heartbeat. You don't have to be a Jeffrey Epstein. It can happen through no real fault of your own.
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Old 09-11-2019, 09:21 AM   #49
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We've seen others, maybe even ourselves at one time, who not only didn't follow a FIRE lifestyle, but also did the opposite. What are some phrases associated with FIRE opposites?

paycheck to paycheck
lottery
casino
buy now, pay later
no Plan B
no Plan A
SNARL (Spend Now And Retire Later)
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Old 09-11-2019, 09:50 AM   #50
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“You were just lucky.”

That struck a chord with me about people's perceptions.

Some time ago, DW ran into an acquaintance she had not seen in some time. The lady said, "oh the two of you were so lucky". DW replied, " my husband died a few years ago, and we lost the business".
The lady was shocked into silence and just walked away.
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Old 09-11-2019, 10:01 AM   #51
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I know plenty of people who live paycheck to paycheck. ...

... Who knows, they might end up getting more enjoyment out of life than us savers and planners....
I realize we are beginning to beat a dead horse, here, but I'm not sure that 1) these people are truly enjoying themselves [more] and as a corollary 2) I firmly believe we LBYMers enjoyed ourselves as much, and without the guilt.
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Old 09-11-2019, 10:22 AM   #52
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I only owe $100 on my credit card (as that is the minimum payment).

OR

I booked for a trip, and will have saved up the balance before I go on the trip.
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Old 09-11-2019, 11:22 AM   #53
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fail to plan, plan to fail
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Old 09-11-2019, 02:33 PM   #54
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OTOH!

DW had a work friend who spent like crazy. I mean $10,000 hand bags, family trips to St Bart$ (~$20K), $3MM home, $50K watch. She made good money but was way over her head; it really was a disease but she'd been like this for the 30 years we knew her.

She'd then brag about how electric/phone/gas/cable company would come and cut off her service for non-payment every few months; she'd sell some bauble to get the power back on and then do it all again. No way to live IMO.

Then, on a shopping trip to Manhattan she had a stroke and died right there in the middle of Tiffany's (how fitting) at the age of 50. Being single with grown children, she likely left a ton of debt but got off this rock unscathed. She had a good time for the time she had.
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Old 09-11-2019, 04:25 PM   #55
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He who dies with the most toys - wins.

Good buddy lived this way. He eventually sold all the cars, boats, wave runners, camper, lake house, etc. He STILL has the $50K(?) Camaro - with $7K after market blower - 800HP(?).

He is in debt half a million at age 76. BUT he still has good SS and some pension (DW also has these). SO, he typically can meet his payments and live in a nice (not fabulous) house. He scrimps ONLY when he has to. Technically he owns nothing but the cr*p INSIDE his house.

I'm not certain I can fault him, but I'd be dead if I'd had his stress level. We both w*rked at the same place and made about the same money. Between he and his wife, he had about the same income as DW and I. Occasionally, I sense his envy of me. He knows (in general terms) that my paid-for condo is worth more than he owes. He never protests that I pay whenever we go out for lunch, etc.

I guess the two of us are just about perfect opposites as defined by this thread. Still, we are good friends and always have a good time together - especially reliving HIS past. YMMV
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Old 09-11-2019, 04:35 PM   #56
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One of my friends investment plan:

"My Ameriprise GURU is handling my investment account"

"He got me in a Variable Annuity that pays 6%!"

"He had me sell at the bottom in 2009 and it cost me $400K....but it's a deductible capital loss" (so that's OK?)


These are TRUE statements from him. We don't talk finances...ever (anymore).
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Old 09-13-2019, 09:10 AM   #57
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Typical Americans
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Old 09-13-2019, 12:36 PM   #58
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My brothers motto " why save for retirement I'll be dead anyway"

If it was fast and stupid he was doing it and then add chain smoking and drinking and I can understand why he might think that. Pretty sure he was trying to set a record for most broken bones and he is missing a thumb and a rib from 2 of his worst accidents.
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Old 09-13-2019, 12:49 PM   #59
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We can always move back in with our parents.
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Old 09-13-2019, 01:31 PM   #60
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"live for today, you might die tomorrow"

Well, I "might die tomorrow", but so far 21,000+ days behind me and I'm still here.
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