FIRE Plans - Confident Or Second thoughts given US Economics

Would you FIRE now or wait till things look better?

  • Would FIRE Now

    Votes: 58 82.9%
  • Would Wait until things look better

    Votes: 12 17.1%

  • Total voters
    70

chinaco

Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Joined
Feb 14, 2007
Messages
5,072
DW will RE soon... in days. I am sticking with the plan of FIRE in 4 years.

Does the state of our economy and the current issues give you second thoughts about FIRE.

For those approaching FIRE consider your plans. For those FIRED, assume you have not done so yet. For those that intend to FIRE much further out, assume you have met your target FIRE amount of money.

Given the economic woes, weak currency, housing bubble, energy problems, war, and on and on.... Would you FIRE today anyway or delay?
 
If I wasn't already FIRE'd, I still would regardless of the economy. I'm fortunate to have a very good DB COLA'd pension, netting about 87.5% of my former net pay. Most of the missing 12.5% was spent on lunches & munchies, w*rk clothes, and other w*rk related items anyway, so I don't really miss it. Investments and investment income, for me, are just frosting on the cake. I personally like a LOT of frosting.....but can settle for a little if I HAVE to. ;)
 
FIRE today.

I'm still working, and the current conditions could continue for a bit, but not for an extensive period. The bigger risk I think is a natural disaster in my area, like Katrina. That would change all the assumptions.

Rita
 
Yes and no.

Of course, I worry about the future, but not about things I can't change.

Diversification is the way to protect yourself against uncertainties, even major upsets.

Planning and preparation can put you in a position of long-term safety--if you can make tough decisions. A LOT of people choke at this point. I am having a few problems with DW accepting certain harsh realities.

Oh, yeah. Save more money.

Remember that the 3.5-4% safe withdrawal rate is based on worst-case history including the Great Depression and two world wars. Sure, something else worse could come along. Plan and act or freeze in the headlights--your choice.

By the way, what do you have against war, anyway? :D
 
Hmmm...let's see.... its 1999 ...market is doing great, inflation is low, employment is great, no war,.....great time to retire. ;)
 
I didn't vote since I don't care about the economy. You didn't give a choice of "when the in-laws die." Until they do, we're trapped in Houston and I'd just as soon have the excuse of going to gainful employment instead of being sucked into endless visiting at the nursing/assisted living facility.
 
Friday will be the end for me. I've been on vacation since August 3 and now it all coming to an end. All I have to do is sign out Friday afternoon and then there is a little party planned with about 75 guests signed up to attend so far.

Working on my last PowerPoint presentation now. :D

The first pension check should be in the bank November 1.

I'm not waiting any longer, 35.33 years is enough.
 
I REed in March 2000. The market drop at that time, and unanticipated health insurance problems gave me some sleepless nights, but even so I don't regret that I quit then.
Before I quit, I had more sleepless nights from job stress.
Life is short.
 
ER ASAP! Which for me is 12-30-2008. We can live comfortably, if not extravagantly, on my pension. Investments are gravy. But maybe I'm a little "different" than most here. ER for me is not about not working. It's about working at what I WANT to work at, WHEN I want to work at it, and only then. In his book, How to Survive Without a Salary, this is what Charles Long referred to as casual income.

This stuff with the alarm clock and having to be to work on time 5X50 (with 2 weeks vacation) sucks.

Billy and Keisha are my heroes!
 
I put "Retire Now".

Actually, right now my retirement plan assumes that shortly after I retire the market will tank and inflation will rise, and that the market won't recover for ten years.

(What me? Pessimist?) >:D
 
DH and I are still planning to RE at the end of March, 2008. Yes, the financial uncertainties are a little disconcerting--but we'll make it work. Waiting until everything is nice and stable is a bit like market timing.....so, FIRE away!
 
Does the state of our economy and the current issues give you second thoughts about FIRE.
Given the economic woes, weak currency, housing bubble, energy problems, war, and on and on.... Would you FIRE today anyway or delay?
Let's break this down into three choices: yesterday, today, and tomorrow.

If yesterday was a great day then you'll wish you had ERed to leave work at the top of your game. If yesterday sucked then you'll know that today or tomorrow are that much more likely to revert to the mean, and would be great times to be ERed.

If today is a great day then you'll wish you'd ERed to enjoy it even more. If today really sucks then you'll wish you'd ERed so that it wouldn't be so bad.

If you think that tomorrow is going to suck, would you rather be working or ERed?

Here's another way to look at it: Which day would you rather wake up dead and think "Well, at least I had time to enjoy my ER!": yesterday, today, or tomorrow?

I'll now leave you to your regular Sunday night routine, when you can prepare for the coming workweek. Tomorrow I'll be thinking "Thank God it's Monday!!"

Actually, right now my retirement plan assumes that shortly after I retire the market will tank and inflation will rise, and that the market won't recover for ten years.
What's your ER date again? I don't want to change my asset allocation, but maybe I'd buy a few options...
 
I'll now leave you to your regular Sunday night routine, when you can prepare for the coming workweek. Tomorrow I'll be thinking "Thank God it's Monday!!"

Yep, can't wait for Monday. I hate weekends, too many working stiffs jamming everything up. :D
 
What's your ER date again? I don't want to change my asset allocation, but maybe I'd buy a few options...

LOL!! 2009-2010. Expect Armageddon and worse by the end of 2010...:2funny:

But I'll be ready for it! If nothing happens, then I'll just have a little more to live on. :)
 
Congrats to those with COLA pensions that are sufficient to support their living without having to worry about the economy or the stock market. Let's suppose in the unlikely event that the pension providers (even the government) announce that they would default their obligations because of a severe recession, would you change your perspective about the economy or the stock market. You probably would say that such an event will never, never, never happen. However, this is only a hypothetical question.
 
Congrats to those with COLA pensions that are sufficient to support their living without having to worry about the economy or the stock market.

Damn the torpedoes- full speed ahead! This sentiment mostly comes from those whose back is being watched by someone else- usually the friendly taxpayer!

Ha
 
Good comments. I voted to Retire today also.

I have a traditional portfolio. Stocks, bonds, cash... I do need a little more international exposure. Right now I about 12% of equity is international. I will probably move that to %15 - 20%. Bonds and cash are all domestic except about 1/2 the bonds are in an actively manage bond fund that has some international exposure... perhaps 5%.

But I still feel like I need to have something else in the portfolio as a hedge against something unexpected.

I have been thinking about 3 items, but the purchases would need to be timed because some of them are fairly high right now:
  1. Precious metal (like the VG index fund) - perhaps 3% (a bit of a currency hedge without the currency) But gold is high right now... I know it will go back down. I think purchasing now would be at the peak. Matter of fact, If I owned it now, I would probably be averaging out of it.
  2. Commodity ETF - perhaps 2%
  3. More international bond exposure - Some percentage of bonds. (any ideas on the % needed)
Items 1 and 2 about would be sold when they fatten up and purchased when they were down (contrarian). I see not need in holding those forever.

The International Bonds would be a permanent fixture.
 
Congrats to those with COLA pensions that are sufficient to support their living without having to worry about the economy or the stock market. Let's suppose in the unlikely event that the pension providers (even the government) announce that they would default their obligations because of a severe recession, would you change your perspective about the economy or the stock market. You probably would say that such an event will never, never, never happen. However, this is only a hypothetical question.

Short of having an emergency stack of gold bars in the basement everyone has to worry about the economy and stock market, pension or not.

If my non cola'ed pension fails, the fallback position is two SS checks and about 14 years living expenses in the bank plus the house.
 
I'm not retiring for quite a while, but in your situation, I would retire as planned. I am so conservative that my dad thinks I'll be able to FIRE 5 years before I plan too, so by the time I do FIRE, I'll have enough "extra" to withstand a poor economic climate.
 
My asset allocation is already in place for FIRE, though I'll move some bonds to cash at that time. The only thing that will change between now and FIRE-day is the total size of the nest egg.

If you've done that, waiting for a "good time" to retire is just market timing.
 
I retired in August of 1999!

And believe you me, it was OBVIOUS that the markets were way overvalued. Today they are not nearly so!

But even if the markets were overvalued in 1999, you couldn't assume that the madness wouldn't continue a few years. The problem with bubbles is that they can last longer than anyone expects. I knew that, so I couldn't just wait it out. Remember I had no crystal ball. I had no idea that things would crash and burn starting in 2000. I had no idea I was facing a 3 year bear market - virtually unheard of at the time.

I knew I had to have an investment strategy that could weather storms, and I knew that I couldn't time things. I'd already learned that lesson well from the past. I also knew it was important to have an investment strategy that required minimum maintenance (keep it simple) so I didn't have to be tweaking all the time. Managing one's investments can become a full time J-O-B if you let it. I wanted to enjoy my retirement, not spend lots of time/energy tracking investments and making decisions.

Was I nervous? Yes! So I deliberately set up a strategy to manage that nervousness.

1. As part of planning for retirement we set aside a "travel budget" - a two year "splurge" on travel so that we could enjoy the first two years doing some dream travel we'd put off for a very long time (due to demanding careers) without concern about market situation right after retirement. This turned out to be a very good idea. We sold some assets - some land, some high-flying tech stocks, and the proceeds went into this pot. As extravagant as it seemed at the time, we were so glad we did, because we were able to go out and enjoy ourselves as not worry about the bear market. Our travel budget ended up lasting us through 2002.

2. I had 2 years of living expenses (sans travel) set aside in a money market fund. This meant I didn't have to worry about drawing down from the retirement portfolio over the next two years. This ended up helping us so much mentally - truly shielding us from market vagaries - that it has now become a standard part of our strategy. I usually have 2 to 3 years of expenses set aside in a cash account separate from the retirement portfolio. It really helps with the short term "feel good".

3. I knew that the most prudent investment strategy was to have an asset allocation that should survive many decades and to rebalance as market conditions changed. I developed one that met my needs. From studies, etc. I concluded that for long term survival, 55% to 60% equities was necessary. This was daunting in 1999, but I knew that inflation would eat away our nest egg otherwise.

4. Since ER was for us possible because we sold a large chunk of company stock, I had a large lump sum to invest into the broader market. Due to the extreme nature of market valuations, I decided to average this into the market over a 2 year period rather than the 1 year usually recommended. This turned out to be the life and sanity saver. In fact as things continued to get progressively worse in late 2001 I extended the averaging in period another 6 months. Oct of 2002 was the last of my averaging in investments - scary yes, but my strategy required that I do it! So I did. I was amply rewarded for the many scary investment times by the huge turnaround in 2003! By the end of 2003 I was probably about 20% ahead of my original investment. According to my records by the end of 2004 I was 31% ahead pre-tax.

Note that if I hadn't had the lump sum to invest but had already had a diversified portfolio, I would have just shifted the asset allocation to what was appropriate to my new retired situation and kept that, rebalancing as needed. Presumably the several year run up before the 2000-2002 disaster would have allowed me to take plenty of profits and move them to bonds, conservative investments, etc. But if I had received a lump sum pension, I would have probably done the same approach as what I did.

So there you have it. A few strategies to manage the potential pitfalls in early retirement plus an asset allocation that should survive many decades. The nice thing about the AA approach is that even when many asset classes are getting clobbered, some other asset class is usually doing well, so you almost always have at least one winner! LOL! For me that helps.

FWIW - if I had it to do all over again I probably would have averaged my retirement fund into a balanced, high-quality, low-cost fund like DODBX. The mindless simplicity of that approach is well worth it. IMO it's probably not worth what little optimization you might achieve by being a little more diversified. I had selected DODBX as a benchmark for my asset allocation and bought chunks of it at the same time I was averaging into my allocated set of mutual funds. DODBX has matched or beaten my asset allocation performance every year since 2000. Of course that's because mid-cap and value stocks dominated over those years plus intermediate bonds did best. This year 2007 is the first time my asset allocation portfolio is trouncing DODBX. Finally! So you can see why I feel that the effort of maintaining one's own allocation may not be worth it not matter how much "better" it might seem on paper.

Hope this helps.

Audrey
 
Congrats to those with COLA pensions that are sufficient to support their living without having to worry about the economy or the stock market. Let's suppose in the unlikely event that the pension providers (even the government) announce that they would default their obligations because of a severe recession, would you change your perspective about the economy or the stock market. You probably would say that such an event will never, never, never happen. However, this is only a hypothetical question.
If one's ER plans are entirely dependent upon a COLA then it's probably a bad idea to retire. "Single point of failure" is just another phrase for "back to work".

So the answer to your question is "Yes, a loss of federal COLA would cause me to conclude that the govt has finally run out of money. But I'd run the FIRECalc numbers and make a decision." However I'd probably find plenty of bargain-basement domestic stocks to invest in, and our international asset allocation would probably be gangbusters. In other words, diversification.

We had a similar situation when the market opened after 9/11. (I was due to retire the following June.) By the end of the day our ER portfolio had shrunk 40% from its 2000 high. I ran the numbers on FinancialEngines (I didn't know of FIRECalc back then) and included our pensions with a zero COLA as a safety margin. It wasn't pretty and we might have had to use Cut-Throat's bare-bones budget tactics for the worst spots, but it still worked. I didn't pull my retirement request, although I decided that it wouldn't be hard to find a part-time job if necessary. The freedom of not working was more compelling than the risk of having to adopt a semi-retired lifestyle, although admittedly that's a lot easier to do when you're healthy in your 40s than decrepit and/or in your 70s.

For the rest of the board... anyone who wants a COLA pension can buy an annuity with the same features, and it's probably just as survivable as Spanky's scenario. You can get it without volunteering to be shot at, too.
 
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