Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Re: fixed fee investment advisor
Old 05-12-2007, 06:27 PM   #41
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
FinanceDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,484
Re: fixed fee investment advisor

I think you are missing the point that slauki is trying to make, but that's ok.

Advice is sometimes about when to do nothing, or to do something. It is not a function of performance, which I have discussed at length but very few understand.

Let's just say the folks on this forum are lightyears ahead of most folks I run into................

Let me ask this. Is is better for a person to do NOTHING, or to work with an advisor who gets them to start investing, and get on the path to FIRE Just curious................
__________________

__________________
Consult with your own advisor or representative. My thoughts should not be construed as investment advice. Past performance is no guarantee of future results (love that one).......:)


This Thread is USELESS without pics.........:)
FinanceDude is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Re: fixed fee investment advisor
Old 05-12-2007, 06:33 PM   #42
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
73ss454's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: LaLa Land
Posts: 4,378
Re: fixed fee investment advisor

Well it would be a lot cheaper for them to do nothing.
__________________

__________________
Work is something you do to get enough $ so you don't have to....Me.
73ss454 is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: fixed fee investment advisor
Old 05-12-2007, 06:44 PM   #43
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 7,408
Re: fixed fee investment advisor

Ya know one of the bar and grill's I've been known to 'do' lunch at has the oft quoted: 'You can get more done with a kind word and gun than just a kind word'. - Al Capone.

A mentor/financial advisor circa 1966 (in contrast to my Dean Witter broker) with 'the gun of knowledge' making me an offer I couldn't refuse - would have saved me the price of an fairly expensive financial education.

Instead - had to wait until 1977 - 500 Index fund/401k/DCA and get there by accident/ or at least not noticing success until it practically bit me in the butt.

I'm getting that grumpy/curmudgeon feeling again.

heh heh heh - when I hit 10mil - maybe I'll get an advisor - maybe
__________________
unclemick is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: fixed fee investment advisor
Old 05-12-2007, 11:07 PM   #44
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Re: fixed fee investment advisor

So basically you financial planner guys are just a really expensive version of Dear Abby?
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: fixed fee investment advisor
Old 05-13-2007, 05:36 AM   #45
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,072
Re: fixed fee investment advisor

There is pending regulatory rules. Financial planning will soon be regulated much more closely.


On that note. Not all financial planners are the same. There a quite a number of people that just regurgitate fundamental rules that could be read out of any basic book about retirement investing.

Where I think there is more value is:

1) Understanding taxes and prepositioning for those issues. It is a bit more murky and a moving target.
2) Understanding other legal issues around estate planning and other life bumps in the road.


It is expensive... but find a good attorney that is also a CPA. I believe they can help people with much more than the basics of investing and the fundamental on balancing market risk (volatility).


Let's face it... Just like there are small number of very good baseball players, there are very few really good financial planners. Since there is no culling process like major league baseball (and the time horizon is different)... you will never know if you hooked up with a bad or mediocre planner until after the fact.


All of that said. If you are unwilling to learn yourself... a mediocre planner is better than just riding the waves and winging it.
__________________
chinaco is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: fixed fee investment advisor
Old 05-13-2007, 06:16 AM   #46
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
saluki9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,032
Re: fixed fee investment advisor

Quote:
Originally Posted by chinaco

It is expensive... but find a good attorney that is also a CPA. I believe they can help people with much more than the basics of investing and the fundamental on balancing market risk (volatility).

One comment on that, as a CPA, and seeing the personal investment portfolio of dozens of CPAs, do yourself a favor and NEVER take investment advice from an accountant. I can speak from experience that accountants learn NOTHING about investing as part of their education and taught only risk avoidance. In general the ones I have seen make very pad investments.

Quote:
There is pending regulatory rules. Financial planning will soon be regulated much more closely.
More closely? Is that possible? I can't think of any other business that is regulated as tightly as ours. The regulators from the SEC, NASD, or our state securities dept can march into our offices at any time, no appt, and demand to see our trading logs, cash receipt logs, disbursements, client files, our company books, checking statements etc. In addition we are required to save every e-mail, letter, note, brochure both to and from clients or prospects. If what you're referring to is the Merrill Lynch rule, thankfully that has been put on hold. That would have allowed brokers to hold themselves out as RIAs without doings all the crap that RIA firms do.


__________________
saluki9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: fixed fee investment advisor
Old 05-13-2007, 06:32 AM   #47
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
REWahoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 42,074
Re: fixed fee investment advisor

Quote:
Originally Posted by saluki9
One comment on that, as a CPA, and seeing the personal investment portfolio of dozens of CPAs, do yourself a favor and NEVER take investment advice from an accountant. I can speak from experience that accountants learn NOTHING about investing as part of their education and taught only risk avoidance. In general the ones I have seen make very pad investments.
Very true, and a common misconception along with the belief that all CPA's are tax experts.

I know one CPA who seeks both investment and tax advice from a liberal arts graduate (AKA "dad").

__________________
Numbers is hard

When I hit 70, it hit back

Retired in 2005 at age 58, no pension
REWahoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: fixed fee investment advisor
Old 05-13-2007, 07:11 AM   #48
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
2B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Houston
Posts: 4,330
Re: fixed fee investment advisor

Quote:
Originally Posted by FinanceDude
Let me ask this. Is is better for a person to do NOTHING, or to work with an advisor who gets them to start investing, and get on the path to FIRE Just curious................
Your question is which wrong choice would I recommend? I would always recommend that someone learn to manage their own assets. If that delays them a month, that's ok.
__________________
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane -- Marcus Aurelius
2B is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: fixed fee investment advisor
Old 05-13-2007, 08:46 AM   #49
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
FinanceDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,484
Re: fixed fee investment advisor

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2B
Your question is which wrong choice would I recommend? I would always recommend that someone learn to manage their own assets. If that delays them a month, that's ok.
I think you assume ALL folks are like you and others on this board, and that's not true...........

Heck, about a third of all working Americans who have access to a 401K don't even put money in........... :P However, the govt now thinks that by giving the employer the power to enroll those folks, that it will magically fix the problem............
__________________
Consult with your own advisor or representative. My thoughts should not be construed as investment advice. Past performance is no guarantee of future results (love that one).......:)


This Thread is USELESS without pics.........:)
FinanceDude is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: fixed fee investment advisor
Old 05-13-2007, 08:52 AM   #50
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,072
Re: fixed fee investment advisor

Quote:
Originally Posted by saluki9
One comment on that, as a CPA, and seeing the personal investment portfolio of dozens of CPAs, do yourself a favor and NEVER take investment advice from an accountant. ...

I should have said explicitly CPA specializing in taxes (it was implied in the context). I agree Accounting classes tend to only give the basics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by saluki9

More closely? Is that possible? I can't think of any other business that is regulated as tightly as ours. The regulators from the SEC, NASD....
Yup it is coming. And it should! There are many BSers out there. There are several certifications available that are bandied around and presented as if the fin adviser is an expert. Most are watered down basics. Some are experts but many are not. Of course from the perspective of the person seeking guidance, they often know very little so a few buzz words impress them.

__________________
chinaco is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: fixed fee investment advisor
Old 05-13-2007, 10:02 AM   #51
Moderator Emeritus
Rich_by_the_Bay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 8,827
Re: fixed fee investment advisor

Quote:
Originally Posted by FinanceDude
I think you assume ALL folks are like you and others on this board, and that's not true...........
FinanceDude and Saluki are, in my opinion, right on target -- most people, even those who are smart, are wildly off the mark in their financial management skills.

We had houseguests this weekend - he's a retired subspecialist ophthalmologist, age 70. I reckon he and his DW are worth $4-5mm. He smugly commented how he is now managing his own money. I gently inquired as to what funds he likes. His reply: "stock funds." Oh, which ones: "I've got utilities, precious metals, REITs." Hmmm.. is that all? "Yep, with mutual funds you don't need to buy dozens of stocks."

He also owns some intermediate bonds. Thankfully, he has a large pension.

Could use a good financial advisor.

Question for FD and Saluki: if a new client came in and showed you a plan which met the usual wisdom around here, what would your reaction/advice be in general? That is, a good and appropriate mix of fixed and stocks, well diversified globally, and indexed, a decent plan for 4% SWR more or less, no real red flags.

How do you react to that? And since you both check in here so at least have some awareness of this group, what about your colleagues who don't take the time to scan this terrain once in a while-- how do you think they would react?

PS: FinanceDude -- is Ron Sadoff still practicing in MKE?

Turns out he has the equivalent of several company's versions of
__________________
Rich
San Francisco Area
ESR'd March 2010. FIRE'd January 2011.

As if you didn't know..If the above message contains medical content, it's NOT intended as advice, and may not be accurate, applicable or sufficient. Don't rely on it for any purpose. Consult your own doctor for all medical advice.
Rich_by_the_Bay is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: fixed fee investment advisor
Old 05-13-2007, 11:10 AM   #52
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
saluki9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,032
Re: fixed fee investment advisor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich_in_Tampa

Question for FD and Saluki: if a new client came in and showed you a plan which met the usual wisdom around here, what would your reaction/advice be in general? That is, a good and appropriate mix of fixed and stocks, well diversified globally, and indexed, a decent plan for 4% SWR more or less, no real red flags.

How do you react to that? And since you both check in here so at least have some awareness of this group, what about your colleagues who don't take the time to scan this terrain once in a while-- how do you think they would react?

Rich, that isn't that uncommon an occurance, I see it all the time. I'm not in sales, but if it gets to the point that a prospects is meeting with a planner it means they see some value in the process. I do run into people who have done a good job so far of putting things together (FYI almost 100% of them are from an engineering background) and if they meet the criteria you describe we would ask them if they want a planning relationship? In many cases they do becasuse they either want the other services we provide or they want to enjoy their retirement (or focus more on work) and don't want to deal with the day to day stuff. In addition, even the good portfolios could use a little fine tuning. I would also add that even the people who come in having done things well so far are far less overconfident certain that they know all the answers as you would find with many folks on the internet. Most of our assets are indexed so there isn't the conflict coming in that you hit with many clients sworn to active management.

__________________
saluki9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: fixed fee investment advisor
Old 05-13-2007, 12:25 PM   #53
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
2B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Houston
Posts: 4,330
Re: fixed fee investment advisor

Quote:
Originally Posted by FinanceDude
I think you assume ALL folks are like you and others on this board, and that's not true...........

Heck, about a third of all working Americans who have access to a 401K don't even put money in........... :P However, the govt now thinks that by giving the employer the power to enroll those folks, that it will magically fix the problem............
I don't assume everyone are financially schooled like most of the members of this forum. I just wish they were.

That gap will provide you with clients until you FIRE.
__________________
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane -- Marcus Aurelius
2B is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: fixed fee investment advisor
Old 05-13-2007, 05:01 PM   #54
Moderator Emeritus
Nords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,616
Re: fixed fee investment advisor

Quote:
Originally Posted by chinaco
There is pending regulatory rules. Financial planning will soon be regulated much more closely.
Well I, for one, welcome our new government-regulation overlords-- and I'm holding my breath until things get better!

Harry Kasanow is a financial dominatrix advisor in Manoa who essentially acts as the "bad guy". For his fee he'll swoop in, put you on a sensible budget, take all your excess funds away from your hot little hands, and start building your retirement portfolio. If you (or your fun-lovin' family) try to touch it then he'll slap your hands away and talk you down. People pay a lot of money for that.

I asked him to work out a plan with us and our funds, and his response was basically "My way or the highway". Well, I can appreciate that he's tuned into his core customer and doesn't need to try to abuse serve everyone.

Later I spoke with an AXA rep who sent us a ton of worksheets, met with me for 45 minutes to go over them, and then Osborned himself by saying "Well, our current Monte Carlo simulator is $2500 for a financial plan but our software upgrade next January will be able to do more for the same price." Really? Well then, see ya!

OTOH my eternal gratitude goes to the advisor who took my phone call, got the outline of our financial situation, and said "Well, if you have a military pension and keep your withdrawals below 3% for the rest of your life then you'll have no problems. But come see me if you want help with that..."

__________________
*
*

The book written on E-R.org, "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement", on sale now! For more info see "About Me" in my profile.
I don't spend much time here anymore, so please send me a PM. Thanks.
Nords is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: fixed fee investment advisor
Old 05-14-2007, 04:16 PM   #55
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
FinanceDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,484
Re: fixed fee investment advisor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich_in_Tampa
Question for FD and Saluki: if a new client came in and showed you a plan which met the usual wisdom around here, what would your reaction/advice be in general? That is, a good and appropriate mix of fixed and stocks, well diversified globally, and indexed, a decent plan for 4% SWR more or less, no real red flags.
I tell them so, right up front. Generally, there's a reason they're in front of me, and it may have LITTLE to do with what mutual fund portfolio they've been managing themselves for many years. Mostly, they're concerned about what to do now, and wonder if they need advice on an ongoing basis. I do a lot of "gratis" work, but in the end I can't complain. I think something that most folks on here don't realize is that there are a fair number of folks who have done well investing WITHOUT the help of advisors, but have reached a point where the $$$ are too big for their comfort.

I would say education is about 75% of what I do with my clients. I am direct and unafraid in my opinion..........

Quote:
How do you react to that? And since you both check in here so at least have some awareness of this group, what about your colleagues who don't take the time to scan this terrain once in a while-- how do you think they would react?

PS: FinanceDude -- is Ron Sadoff still practicing in MKE?
I am pretty sure I am one of the ONLY FA's in the USA on this forum....but I use it to learn about LBYM more than investing strategies........

As far as I know, Ron is still practicing in MKE.............

Saluki works the portfolio mgmt side, so I may be the only true fee-based advisor that is ballsy enough to be on here..............

What we know for sure is I'm not prospecting for clients on here............
__________________
Consult with your own advisor or representative. My thoughts should not be construed as investment advice. Past performance is no guarantee of future results (love that one).......:)


This Thread is USELESS without pics.........:)
FinanceDude is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: fixed fee investment advisor
Old 05-14-2007, 04:22 PM   #56
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
REWahoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 42,074
Re: fixed fee investment advisor

Quote:
Originally Posted by FinanceDude
What we know for sure is I'm not prospecting for clients on here............
I wouldn't go quite that far, but I would agree you aren't doing so very effectively.
Kinda like trying to set up an ice mfg. operation in Hell...

__________________
Numbers is hard

When I hit 70, it hit back

Retired in 2005 at age 58, no pension
REWahoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: fixed fee investment advisor
Old 05-14-2007, 04:28 PM   #57
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 7,408
Re: fixed fee investment advisor

Quote:
Originally Posted by REWahoo!
I wouldn't go quite that far, but I would agree you aren't doing so very effectively.
Kinda like trying to set up an ice mfg. operation in Hell...

When I get to 10mil - we'll talk.

Please don't hold your breath.

heh heh heh - Target Retirement is my latest hearthrob. Pssst - Wellesley is now my ex.
__________________
unclemick is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: fixed fee investment advisor
Old 05-14-2007, 04:39 PM   #58
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
FinanceDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,484
Re: fixed fee investment advisor

Quote:
Originally Posted by REWahoo!
I wouldn't go quite that far, but I would agree you aren't doing so very effectively.
Kinda like trying to set up an ice mfg. operation in Hell...
__________________
Consult with your own advisor or representative. My thoughts should not be construed as investment advice. Past performance is no guarantee of future results (love that one).......:)


This Thread is USELESS without pics.........:)
FinanceDude is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: fixed fee investment advisor
Old 05-14-2007, 04:41 PM   #59
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
FinanceDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,484
Re: fixed fee investment advisor

Quote:
Originally Posted by unclemick2
When I get to 10mil - we'll talk.

Please don't hold your breath.

heh heh heh - Target Reirement is my latest hearthrob. Pssst - Wellesley is now my ex.
Let me guess, you have a bumper sticker that says:"We're Out Spending Our Kid's Retirement"..............
__________________
Consult with your own advisor or representative. My thoughts should not be construed as investment advice. Past performance is no guarantee of future results (love that one).......:)


This Thread is USELESS without pics.........:)
FinanceDude is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: fixed fee investment advisor
Old 05-14-2007, 04:57 PM   #60
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 7,408
Re: fixed fee investment advisor

Quote:
Originally Posted by FinanceDude
Let me guess, you have a bumper sticker that says:"We're Out Spending Our Kid's Retirement"..............
Nope - but sure saw a bunch of them on RV's usually - during our 'pull the camper' period in the 1980's.

heh heh heh 8)
__________________

__________________
unclemick is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Who uses an investment advisor to help? mickeyd FIRE and Money 8 02-25-2007 07:28 PM
Investment Fee study mickeyd FIRE and Money 2 01-10-2007 09:36 PM
Weaning my investment advisor Rich_by_the_Bay FIRE and Money 16 12-06-2006 01:27 PM
Managing my Investment Advisor Rich_by_the_Bay FIRE and Money 3 03-22-2006 01:44 PM
investment manager fee oldcrowcall FIRE and Money 4 04-15-2004 07:28 AM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:34 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.