florida votes yes on 1: portability

[lazygood4nothinbum]

i'm no longer trapped in my house.

with over 90% of polls counted, amendment 1 has 63% approval with only 60% required while polls had shown a loss for amendment 1 which doubles the homestead exemption, allows for portability of "save our homes" value (which limits to 3% increases in appraised property value for tax purposes) and limits nonhomesteaded properties to 10%.

this opens up a whole new option for me in my downsizing ability. south florida has become very expensive and my house has gained much value over my 14 years here. happens i bought right when soh came of age. for those upgrading, as much as $500k of homesteaded value becomes portable in the state. for those of us downsizing, we take the percentage of market value to soh value giving me a minimum of $160k. that means i can get a foreclosed house near the beach in daytona or an apartment near the bay in tampa or something in g-ville or jax and pay zero in property tax.

without portability, for me to downsize by half my taxes would have increased by three. thank you florida for your support of my early retirement options.

 

[73ss454]

Our governor is a liar. He went on TV telling about an additional $25K homestead exemption and it's not for school tax which is about half. Also did nothing for the new comers and the young people trying to buy here in Fla.. This will do nothing for the Fla. economy.

It may be good for you to down size and keep SOH but I didn't even bother to vote, didn't do a thing for me.

 

[73ss454]

Also, if Crist wanted to lower our taxes why would we have to vote for it.
There's a punch line there somewhere but it's yet to be seen. There's a reason why this creep had people vote for this.

 

[lazygood4nothinbum]

thank you for your abstention on amendment 1. in fact the governor did mention in ads that the doubling of homestead exemptions does not include school tax and he was specific about that so as not to take funding away from schools. he also came up with more funding for schools if i remember right.

for new comers and new buyers, soh will protect them into their future just like it protected me into mine. i am certain that you will feel much differently about it when you see your tax savings in 14 years like i have over the past 14.

i do not buy the arguments that this will not help our economy. that argument seems based on the idea that more houses will now come to market. but i would argue that is no net gain of inventory because the only people who would market their homes to take advantage of portability will be buying another home in florida.

so at the very least it will stimulate house buying here because it will increase activity. in what other state do you have people who don't buy within their own state because they are locked into their houses. this has been no skin off your nose. you are better off now than you were before. you will be even better off into your future. all that has happened is that before we were locked in and now we have the key.

 

[Texas Proud]

Sorry Lazy... this might be the 'liberal' in me (and believe me it is hard to find)....

But I think all these programs are just plain wrong... the prop 13 in Cali and the same in your state if that is what it is.... and now you can 'move' with this tax saving?

I think that everybody should be paying for the services they want... and if it cost to much cut the services.... you are trumpeting that you will now be able to get state and local service and let someone else pay for them... just not 'fair' IMO...

Now, I can agree with the 3% increase etc. as it is difficult to have a big increase in one year... but probably should be a bit higher...

 

[73ss454]

thank you for your abstention on amendment 1. in fact the governor did mention in ads that the doubling of homestead exemptions does not include school tax and he was specific about that so as not to take funding away from schools. he also came up with more funding for schools if i remember right.

for new comers and new buyers, soh will protect them into their future just like it protected me into mine. i am certain that you will feel much differently about it when you see your tax savings in 14 years like i have over the past 14.

i do not buy the arguments that this will not help our economy. that argument seems based on the idea that more houses will now come to market. but i would argue that is no net gain of inventory because the only people who would market their homes to take advantage of portability will be buying another home in florida.

so at the very least it will stimulate house buying here because it will increase activity. in what other state do you have people who don't buy within their own state because they are locked into their houses. this has been no skin off your nose. you are better off now than you were before. you will be even better off into your future. all that has happened is that before we were locked in and now we have the key.

Every add I saw on TV the governor never once said school tax was not included. He just said and additional $25K exemption.

As far as waiting 14 years for tax relief, you gotta be kidding. I'll be glad to be alive.

The only stimulation you'll see is Floridians moving around from house to house, and I don't think there will too much of that. Who in their right mind would come here now that the word is out about the tax rip off.

Good for you that you'll be able to take the BS SOH exemption with you but don't try to make it sound like this was good for everyone.

Like I said if they wanted to give us tax relief why in the world would we have to vote for it. What a joke!

 

[jazz4cash]

I guess I need to re-read or maybe someone can summarize:

Why would anyone vote against portability?

ZERO PROPERTY TAX FOR DOWNSIZING? How is that fair?

This is completely different from limiting assessment increases for people staying in thier homes which is ok by me. Ours is 3% county and 10% state (MD).

 

[73ss454]

I guess I need to re-read or maybe someone can summarize:

Why would anyone vote against portability?

ZERO PROPERTY TAX FOR DOWNSIZING? How is that fair?

This is completely different from limiting assessment increases for people staying in thier homes which is ok by me. Ours is 3% county and 10% state (MD).

Now you got it. Just a bunch of Floridians voting for something that the government should have just enacted. No way does this not pass, a bunch of monkies would have voted for it.

But don't worry if you move here you just have to wait 14 years for tax relief.

 

[old woman]

I am happy for you. I am not from Florida so my first thought was Dangling Chads.
Where I am we all pay the same property taxes nothing special for owning longer. I have voted against the Prop 13 type limits because I think they are unfair to first time homeowners. We do have tax reductions for low income elderly so old people aren't priced out of the family home. If I can afford a house worth a fortune I can pay the property tax but letting someone freeze their property taxes when they buy their first house and then forever have an advantage doesn't seem fair.
We didn't vote on one with portability so we would all be stuck in our starter houses forever unless we wanted to pay higher taxes.

 

[73ss454]

I'm glad everyone see's this for the fraud that it is.

 

[lazygood4nothinbum]

Sorry Lazy... this might be the 'liberal' in me (and believe me it is hard to find)....

But I think all these programs are just plain wrong... the prop 13 in Cali and the same in your state if that is what it is.... and now you can 'move' with this tax saving?

I think that everybody should be paying for the services they want... and if it cost to much cut the services.... you are trumpeting that you will now be able to get state and local service and let someone else pay for them... just not 'fair' IMO...

Now, I can agree with the 3% increase etc. as it is difficult to have a big increase in one year... but probably should be a bit higher...

yes, this is like california and though it is only in these two states that i know of, i think this will become more the norm in growth & crowded states like ours. this might not be needed in nongrowth, vacant areas. the option is forcing people to sell their houses because they can no longer afford rising taxes. you might see that as more fair but it is certainly not more kind, thus the liberal in me.

just goes to show how a bleeding heart on my sleeve social liberal can be the more fiscally conservative.

it happens that with this i would be able live property tax free (until those 3% increases kick in) but that is all due to portability of the many years of accumulating benefits of that 3% cap which you seem to sort of agree with.

i don't have more benefit from this, i simply will not be penalized out of my existing benefit just because i relocate within the same state out of which such benefit derives.

Every add I saw on TV the governor never once said school tax was not included....As far as waiting 14 years for tax relief, you gotta be kidding. I'll be glad to be alive....Who in their right mind would come here now that the word is out about the tax rip off...
Good for you that you'll be able to take the BS SOH exemption with you but don't try to make it sound like this was good for everyone...Like I said if they wanted to give us tax relief why in the world would we have to vote for it. What a joke!

i don't know that every ad was a comprehensive appraisal of the situation but certainly i saw many ads which even touted that school tax would not be included which was done so as to not freak people out about underfunding schools.

you might not be alive in 14 years but maybe your spouse might then like to downsize and take advantage of portability. she will benefit greatly from this then.

the same people will move here who moved here before. their lot has not been made any worse than before this vote.

certainly because of my rare situation of being early retired, being a long time homeowner and now having an extra option, this is unusually good for me. i realize it is not that good for everyone and i will vote for further reductions to help others when such worthy opportunities arise. but apparently i'm not the only one who thinks this is good for everyone.

this was the first use of supermajority to come to vote in florida since 60% was made mandatory to change the constitution here. do you think for one second that you would have gotten a 60% vote to eliminate soh?

in 10 years time, would you vote to eliminate it?

 

[AltaRed]

This portability thing is simply re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. More of the property tax must come from resident Floridians to support a critical level of services. No one is going to move into the state with the newcomers carrying a vastly disproportionate share of the burden. The state needs new residents to pick up the slack in housing inventory. Good luck to short sighted states.

 

[73ss454]

Man, don't try to justify this nonsense.

Tell me why you think your entitled to pay less than your neighbor because you bought earlier. Did you think for one minute that this would not pass. If you ask someone if they want to pay less do you think that they'll say no. Were you sitting on the edge of your seat wondering if it would pass?

Stop trying to justify this in your mind because you know it's wrong and so does everyone else.

 

[lazygood4nothinbum]

This portability thing is simply re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. More of the property tax must come from resident Floridians to support a critical level of services. No one is going to move into the state with the newcomers carrying a vastly disproportionate share of the burden. The state needs new residents to pick up the slack in housing inventory. Good luck to short sighted states.

how badly has it hurt california?

 

[lazygood4nothinbum]

Did you think for one minute that this would not pass. If you ask someone if they want to pay less do you think that they'll say no. Were you sitting on the edge of your seat wondering if it would pass?

Stop trying to justify this in your mind because you know it's wrong and so does everyone else.

actually i'm the only one of my friends who was for it. and all my friends thought i was nuts to think it might pass. as well, most polls gave it less than a 50% chance of passing.

 

[73ss454]

You didn't answer my other question.

What makes you think that you should pay less than your neighbor because you bought earlier. Don't tell me that that's what the people voted for.

So if the house your selling now has $5K taxes and you sold it the new owner would pay 15K. You think that's OK? Maybe you'll get lucky now and sell it to a Floridian, that's your only shot. A few years ago no one knew about the reassessment, but now they do. Florida in #2 in foreclosure and soon to be #1.

 

[lazygood4nothinbum]

You didn't answer my other question.

What makes you think that you should pay less than your neighbor because you bought earlier. Don't tell me that that's what the people voted for.

So if the house your selling now has $5K taxes and you sold it the new owner would pay 15K. You think that's OK? Maybe you'll get lucky now and sell it to a Floridian, that's your only shot. A few years ago no one knew about the reassessment, but now they do. Florida in #2 in foreclosure and soon to be #1.

i think most people voted for portability. but i suppose a counterpoint to your argument would be: why should newcomers benefit without cost to them from infrastructure paid for by others? perhaps while we work to further reduce the tax burden on newer residents and first time home buyers we could increase impact fees on new housing.

by the way, you're talking to a guy who is paying $17k on my inherited house which used to cost us only $5k. and not to upset you even more, but i only pay $1k to live my house now. paying zero tax on a downsized house isn't so much a savings for me as it is a novelty. the new owner at my personal house when i sell will pay about $5k, much less than the $7 to 8k they'd' have paid before the bubble burst.

 

[73ss454]

i think most people voted for portability. but i suppose a counterpoint to your argument would be: why should newcomers benefit without cost to them from infrastructure paid for by others? perhaps while we work to further reduce the tax burden on newer residents and first time home buyers we could increase impact fees on new housing.

by the way, you're talking to a guy who is paying $17k on my inherited house which used to cost us only $5k. and not to upset you even more, but i only pay $1k to live my house now. paying zero tax on a downsized house isn't so much a savings for me as it is a novelty. the new owner at my personal house when i sell will pay about $5k, much less than the $7 to 8k they'd' have paid before the bubble burst.

Well, before I left NY should they have given me a rebate on the taxes I paid for 58years

As far as the vote, there was no alternative. You either said OK I'll take the homestead exemption and the portability or I'll take nothing. So, the only people who would have voted no, were either necomers and young people who amounted to no where near the 40% needed to veto this fraud.

Did you expect Floridians to go out and vote no so they could pay more.

I had a young guy at my house the other day fixing my cable box. He was born in Florida and boought his first house last August. His mortgage payment was $1400 a month, in Nov he got his new payment of over $1800. Now he put the house on the market because he can't make the payment. So this is what you voted for. The only people buying house in Florida will be people from Florida. These are all the people paying little or no taxes now. Yet you think this is OK.

 

[GatorBuzz]

I live in Florida also.

73ss454, how did his payment jump to 1800 from 1400? Wouldn't the additional 25k homestead exemption only serve to help him?

 

[73ss454]

I live in Florida also.

73ss454, how did his payment jump to 1800 from 1400? Wouldn't the additional 25k homestead exemption only serve to help him?

After you buy a house in Florida they have the right to reappraise your house. So his taxes went up and raised his mortgage payment $400 a month. This is exactly what happened to many people who bought here in the last 5 years because of rising property values. The new $25K exemption will save him less than $200 a YEAR. This new exemption was touted at $25K but it's not off of school taxes so maybe it's $12K.

If you go to any property appraiser site on the internet in Fla. they now have in big red letters a warning about the reappraisal.

This was also a problem if you lived in Fla. and movd to a diff. house here. So what they came up with is portability of SOH and now you'll just have Floridians buying Florida homes. Anyone else would have to be crazy or rich.

 

[Moemg]

Lazy ,

I'm with you on this one . I intend to downsize and the portability will help. I also thought Save our homes was unfair when I bought six years ago but without it I would have been taxed out of my home . 73ss454 whatever taxes you are paying in Florida should pale by comparison to what you paid in New York .In a few years you will also benefit from the save our homes . Without that amendment and given the low wages in Florida there would be a massive exodus of workers .What I'd like to see is reasonable wages and a fairer property tax system .

 

[Rich_by_the_Bay]

I think it's not a complete solution but I voted for it. We needed something to break the gridlock, and some constituencies were really imprisoned by the current well-intended but screwed up laws.

I'd like to see it followed up by fine-tuning the inevitable unintended consequences, and an increase in sales tax or even a small state income tax toward services, infrastructure, and education among other things.

Relying too heavily on property tax for those things is too unpredictable, too vulnerable to the gyrations of the housing market, and essentially uncontrollable.

Newcomers to the state benefit little, other than a 10% prop tax cap. And at least they know what they are getting into, versus finding yourself unexpectedly trapped by a system intended to help you.

 

[GatorBuzz]

Oh, gotcha. Same thing happened to me. Our first year in our house we paid 1600 in taxes b/c it was based on what the previous owner paid (he'd lived in the house for 15 years). Next year (reappraised) it went to 2400. That's still not bad compared to what many faced. 400 more a month, though, seems almost unbelievable.

The biggest problem is in local government spending and tax increases (obviously). I live in Alachua County and during the tax discussions last year, one of our County Commissioners stated that if the bill passed "I guess we will no longer be able to be all things to all people." Yeah? Well no kidding. You never should've tried that in the first place. County governments have been robbing citizens in Florida for the last five years with increased home prices, so the state government decided to step in. After a lot of talk of everything (including total elimination of property taxes) it looks like this is what we got.

What do you think they should've done to fix the indiscriminate raising of taxes that county governments have been able to do for the last five years (or more in some areas)? Seems to me that before this bill was passed, there was no relief for new buyers and that remains the same.

 

[Rich_by_the_Bay]

A question for me is what happened to all that increased tax revenue due to years of housing appreciation?

There'll be shortages and problems from this. I hope that they can be fixed with alternative sources of revenue of which I am willing to pay my share. Heck, it's a beautiful state to live in, no state income tax, large population. There'll be ways.

 

[AltaRed]

how badly has it hurt california?

Have you seen how the state's economy is grinding down due to slower population and GDP growth? Newcomers are not going to pay a disproportionate amount of the tax load over the long term. At some point sunshine and beaches becomes unaffordable and in-migration stops (or reverses). That is a death spiral as one can see in the industrial midwest. Want your cities to become another Cleveland? Buffalo?

These tax systems did help to slow/stop rampant growth and thus rampant increases in house prices and property taxes. Something did need to be done to put the brakes on in both FL and CA, but I don't think anyone thought through how they are going to get off that train when it inevitably has to stop. Zero growth results in stagnation, deteriorating infrastructure and services - and loss of jobs.