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Old 11-11-2008, 07:35 AM   #61
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This will be interesting to watch and will tell us a lot about our President Elect. Is he a problem solving pragmatist or a big union liberal?

The reality is that GM, Ford, & Chrysler need to restructure their costs to fit within their revenues. While a bankruptcy court would be particularly well suited to handle this, the recent election suggests Chapter 11 is not in the cards. But unfortunately for our well meaning politicians, government largess can only forestall the inevitable. To fix the underlying problem the cost structures will have to be rationalized . . . it will be interesting to watch Obama try to manage the competing interests. I have to admit, I'm not "hopeful" of the outcome.

Obama has said he supports a bailout as long as the UAW comes to the table and gives something up to make the business solvent
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Old 11-11-2008, 07:47 AM   #62
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This stuff happens everywhere, but I would say that people on the coasts tend to spend less time obsessing about the nefarious people in Middle America.
I've lived on one coast or another for 50 years. mostly within a mile or less of the saltwater. I am trying really hard to remember if I have ever heard anyone make any comment about "people from off". I don't think I ever have. On the other hand where I was born in The Interior, I heard a lot about those Nasty Yankees.

So many people on the coasts are originally from elsewhere, the younger ones still depend on care packages from Mom back in Minnasota.

Ha
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Old 11-11-2008, 07:58 AM   #63
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Could you give some reference for that? Where did you read that pay for Honda/Toyota is the same as for UAW workers, including all benefits for active and retired employees. I don't think that's true. But I'm more than ready to stand corrected if you can mention some creditable source for that information......
Youbet, I've read that article (or a similar one) too, but wasn't able to find it in a couple minutes of googling. But what I remember is that the Honda/Toyota employees were actually higher paid than the GM/Fordsters, but that the lack of pension/healthcare combined with seriously less efficient production techniques made the American made cars more expensive. The average Toyota sale made the company $1K+, whereas the average car sale for Ford lost the comany about the same. The article also stated that the American factories were gaining on the furriners productivity-wise, but still couldn't compete due to the benefits as well as rebates and distribution costs.

Disclosure - Toyota owner since 1979. Every American car I ever tried was a POS in comparison (except my first one, a 1965 Mustang - )
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Old 11-11-2008, 08:18 AM   #64
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Oh without a doubt. I lived in the mid west before coming out to CA. People here look at me like Im crazy when I mentioned moving back
Come back!

I'll be happy to bail someone out on a warm coast if I can come use their spare bedroom from November 1 to March 1.
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Old 11-11-2008, 08:45 AM   #65
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So are all coastal area residents considered snobs or is it only Calif. & NYC . So living in Florida am I snobby and if I move Maine still snobby ? There are coastal areas of Florida that make flyover country look like heaven.
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Old 11-11-2008, 08:54 AM   #66
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I think OP was including only Manhattan and LA (not even all of California or New York) as the coastal snobs. Maine and Florida will have to work harder to get that reputation
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Old 11-11-2008, 09:23 AM   #67
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Obama has said he supports a bailout as long as the UAW comes to the table and gives something up to make the business solvent
Hmmm, interesting. I only saw that he wanted help for the auto's, I didn't see any comments about actually making them viable companies again. I did see the UAW say that they weren't agreeing to any more concessions - they think they've given enough. The UAW no doubt feels like they have a bit of pull with the new President and both houses of Congress . . . it will be interesting to see how this plays out.
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Old 11-11-2008, 09:50 AM   #68
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As to the OP, it would be my view that people who are well traveled, have lived in a number of different locations, are exposed daily to a great diversity of cultures, opinions, religious beliefs and lifestyles will generally be more tolerant and open minded individuals than those who aren't.
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Old 11-11-2008, 10:39 AM   #69
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“Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand."

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"A house divided against itself cannot stand."

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Old 11-11-2008, 04:22 PM   #70
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So are all coastal area residents considered snobs or is it only Calif. & NYC . So living in Florida am I snobby and if I move Maine still snobby ? There are coastal areas of Florida that make flyover country look like heaven.
I grew up in the NE about 100 miles from NYC; have lived on the DC beltway, and within 80 miles of San Francisco. Have been in Ohio for 30 years.

Am I snobby or salt-of-the-earth flyover?
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Old 11-11-2008, 05:45 PM   #71
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“Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand."

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"A house divided against itself cannot stand."

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"Me against my brother"
"My brother and I against my cousin"
"The three of us against the world"

source unknown, possibly ancient Arabic.
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Old 11-11-2008, 06:53 PM   #72
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... But what I remember is that the Honda/Toyota employees were actually higher paid than the GM/Fordsters, but that the lack of pension/healthcare combined with seriously less efficient production techniques made the American made cars more expensive.
I just saw this 5 min ago on CNBC.

Average Total Compensation (wage+benefits):

For Big 3: $73/hr
For Toyota: $48/hr
For US worker: $28/hr
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Old 11-11-2008, 07:58 PM   #73
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Youbet, I've read that article (or a similar one) too, but wasn't able to find it in a couple minutes of googling. But what I remember is that the Honda/Toyota employees were actually higher paid than the GM/Fordsters, but that the lack of pension/healthcare combined with seriously less efficient production techniques made the American made cars more expensive. The average Toyota sale made the company $1K+, whereas the average car sale for Ford lost the comany about the same. The article also stated that the American factories were gaining on the furriners productivity-wise, but still couldn't compete due to the benefits as well as rebates and distribution costs.
Well, you might be recollecting your reading material incorrectly. Happens to me!

The Big Three has agreements with the UAW and in some cases get to pay newly highered workers on reduced pay schedules as compared to senior workers. Your reading material might have been refering to that. But, when you compare the total labor + benefit costs of Big Three produced cars, including retiree health care and pensions, work rules related to pay for time not worked, etc., The Big Three are at a significant disadvantage from a labor-related cost perspective.

IMO, the only way out is bankruptcy and reorganization with completely new union contracts and govt picking up retiree benefits. Or, perhaps the UAW coming to the table and sharing in the pain during any bailout negotiations.

There is a reason the Toyota/Honda plants are primarily in right to work states.
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Old 11-11-2008, 08:13 PM   #74
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Some of us needed to read the post to learn the phrase "flyover country"...I did miss this board!
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Old 11-11-2008, 09:18 PM   #75
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I grew up in the NE about 100 miles from NYC; have lived on the DC beltway, and within 80 miles of San Francisco. Have been in Ohio for 30 years.

Am I snobby or salt-of-the-earth flyover?
You are a ex snobby semi nouveau fly over !
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Old 11-11-2008, 09:20 PM   #76
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Some of us needed to read the post to learn the phrase "flyover country"...I did miss this board!


I live near an airport in a coastal area so am I a flyover or a coastal resident ?
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Old 11-11-2008, 11:06 PM   #77
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In my youth kids shouted "California Driver!" when a car didn't yield to a pedestrian. It was almost as good as a swear word. Need I mention that I lived in Oregon? The attitude has mellowed but the locals still have a lot of fun casting a side ways glance at folks with cars with California plates - an inside joke. The attitude was based on the effect of the lack of land use planning in LA and the fact that they always seemed to have so much money to spend.
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Old 11-11-2008, 11:14 PM   #78
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In my youth kids shouted "California Driver!" when a car didn't yield to a pedestrian....
Rolling through an intersection was called a "Saint Louis Stop" in WI.
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Old 11-12-2008, 06:32 AM   #79
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Rolling through an intersection was called a "Saint Louis Stop" in WI.
It was called a Hollywood Stop in Tronno.
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Old 11-12-2008, 08:02 AM   #80
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In a small town in Nebraska (where I grew up) those roll thru stops were called California stops. Oh...I think I live in fly over country....hehe...and love to visit those other places. I would never be able to afford living there but really like those visits.
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