For church goers only. How much do you give?

[Sam]

Requirements:

1) Must be a regular church goer
2) Do NOT count your volunteered time. Only actual cash contribution.
3) Percentage of GROSS income, not take-home.

I'm always fascinated hearing about the suggested percentage one should give the church. So, I always wonder what the actual number is. Thanks.

 

[youbet]

I always wonder what the actual number is. Thanks.

You think the number this poll comes up with will be the actual number?

 

[ScaredtoQuit]

If you're a Christian, its supposed to be 10% of your gross. I have a big problem with that because if you only take home 50% of your income because of taxes and off the top savings deductions ( I take home about 23%), that 10% actually comes to 20% or more of your disposable income.

Since I am very involved in my church, I know lots of people who tithe a full 10% of their gross. I know at least one couple who do this but really RESENT their gift. (This contradicts the Christian belief that "God loves the cheerful giver.") I can think of at least one other couple who tithe 10% of their gross cheerfully but have credit card debt exceeding $70K.

From time to time I do experience guilt over not giving more. However, I take solace in knowing that my contributions are freely given from the heart with no regrets. Also, my swift arrival on the shores of financial independence will enable me to contribute my time more freely.

 

[mickj]

10% of your increase

definition of "increase" is where all the debate comes from

 

[Sam]

You think the number this poll comes up with will be the actual number?

Yes, I believe in what most people report in anonymous poll. I know you're skeptical, critical, but it might have to do with yourself more than with what others say.

BTW, you haven't responded to my question in the other thread. How did you arrive at that "strong correlation"? Can't wait to hear your answer.

 

[Sam]

If you're a Christian, its supposed to be 10% of your gross. I have a big problem with that because if you only take home 50% of your income because of taxes and off the top savings deductions ( I take home about 23%), that 10% actually comes to 20% or more of your disposable income.

Did you make a mistake in your calculation? If you gave 10% gross, but take home only 23%, that 10% is 43% of your take home (10/23).

 

[donheff]

If you're a Christian, its supposed to be 10% of your gross.

Doesn't that depend on the sect? Also, is tithing specified as a requirement somewhere in the New Testament?

 

[ScaredtoQuit]

Did you make a mistake in your calculation? If you gave 10% gross, but take home only 23%, that 10% is 43% of your take home (10/23).

When I was referring to the 23%, I was only counting my paycheck from MegaCorp. Additional income comes from DW's salary and investments.

 

[sailor]

If you're a Christian, its supposed to be 10% of your gross.

Who supposed this on you?

 

[ScaredtoQuit]

Doesn't that depend on the sect? Also, is tithing specified as a requirement somewhere in the New Testament?

As far as I know, the requirement to tithe comes from the old testament. "Now consider how great this man was whom Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils" -

Sorry, I can't remember the exact passage in the old testament that this comes from. I'll try to remember to look it up tonight. I think the way it works is that anything in the old testament would apply to any Judeo-Christian religion.

 

[Sam]

ScaredToQuit,

On the other thread, you said giving less than 10% is not an option for you unless you can find a new DW.

Were you joking?

 

[linkerbink]

I always thought the tithe was 10% of your gross, but we recently had a speaker from the stewardship department of our denomination who said they consider the tithe as 10% of net. Also, they would count any other donations to charitable causes as part of the 10%. So I could give 7.5% to the congregation, and another 2.5% toward local or national organizations, and that would count also. I guess it depends on your denomination's philosophy.

 

[Sam]

I wonder how they come up with that suggested percentage (the actual value does not matter). Did they employ an army of accountants (to determine expense), mathematicians (to calculate the propability of people following the suggestion), and marketers (to promote the idea)? It's fascinating!

 

[ScaredtoQuit]

ScaredToQuit,

On the other thread, you said giving less than 10% is not an option for you unless you can find a new DW.

Were you joking?

I guess I should have said a significant reduction is not an option for me. (Don't know the exact limits that DW would tolerate) However, she is VERY serious about our committment to Church. While I have grown to believe in the importance of supporting my Church financially, my level of committment pales next to hers. Consider the fact that she insists on a nightly reading of a Bible passage and you'll have a little insight into where I am.

 

[ScaredtoQuit]

Who supposed this on you?

My last response answers this queston also.

 

[youbet]

It's fascinating!

You're easily fascinated Sam!!

 

[ScaredtoQuit]

I always thought the tithe was 10% of your gross, but we recently had a speaker from the stewardship department of our denomination who said they consider the tithe as 10% of net. Also, they would count any other donations to charitable causes as part of the 10%. So I could give 7.5% to the congregation, and another 2.5% toward local or national organizations, and that would count also. I guess it depends on your denomination's philosophy.

This makes much more sense.

If you haven't figured it out by now, my inherent nature is more like the rest of you cheapskates!!

 

[youbet]

I know you're skeptical, critical, but it might have to do with yourself more than with what others say.

You don't know anything of the kind Sam....... I was just wondering how you determined that your sample will be representative of all church goers? Where ya going with this anyway? Bored 'cause it's still rainin' down there and you can't get out of the house and just need something to do?

 

[Sam]

Anyone other than me notice the strong correlation between those that give none/little and those that are the most determined/proficient at finding sources of charitable help if it turns out they need it themselves? The non-givers and the determined/proficient takers often seem to be the same people!

Yes, I believe in what most people report in anonymous poll. I know you're skeptical, critical, but it might have to do with yourself more than with what others say.

BTW, you haven't responded to my question in the other thread. How did you arrive at that "strong correlation"? Can't wait to hear your answer.

You don't know anything of the kind Sam.......

Oh yes, I do. And most members of this board know it too.

 

[Sam]

I guess I should have said a significant reduction is not an option for me. (Don't know the exact limits that DW would tolerate) However, she is VERY serious about our committment to Church. While I have grown to believe in the importance of supporting my Church financially, my level of committment pales next to hers. Consider the fact that she insists on a nightly reading of a Bible passage and you'll have a little insight into where I am.

Thanks for sharing. I hear you, but I don't really understand.

 

[Goonie]

My vote went under "I don't meet the requirements."

(the following is NOT meant to be a 'rant' or even 'preachy'....merely MY viewpoint)

I don't and won't attend "services" of any organized religious institution. Haven't for several (many) years. I do gather together with other believers of like mind, house-to-house. We not only have no buildings to waste oodles of money on support, we also have NO paid clergy, or for that matter, we have NO clergy. Seems to me (us) that this was actually the way the "church" (the ecclesia) met in the early centuries of Christendom. At least until Constantine came along and developed his religious rituals and traditions....(and needed cash to finance his dreams).

As individuals we can "give" in any way deemed appropriate. Some do the money thing to other charities, like the local food pantry, or the homeless shelter, or Habitat, or things like that. Others "give" their time and effort to help others, and to make our community and our world a better place. Some buy food or pay utility bills or such things, for those who can't make it on their own.

In our reading of things, tithing was required in the Old Testament era, and that tithe was to be taken, originally to the Tabernacle, then later to the Temple. The Temple was destroyed (and never rebuilt) in around or about 68 to 70 A.D. Therefore, there was no longer anywhere, according to the law of Moses, to "legally" take the tithe. So it was (is) no longer a Biblical requirement. Christ never called for tithing, nor did Paul, Peter, John, or the rest of the guys. And one would think if it was of such great importance in the New Testament era, somebody would have stated it as such!

Having said all that....I still say "each to their own"...do what you feel compelled to do. You might be right....I might be right....or either OR both of us might be wrong!

As someone above posted...God does love a cheerful giver!

 

[kjpliny]

I think giving 10% of your gross or even your net income to any organized religion seems excessive, unless your seriously rich and money doesn't matter. Find some people living on the street with nothing and give the money to them instead. Eliminate the middle man.

 

[Goonie]

I think giving 10% of your gross or even your net income to any organized religion seems excessive, unless your seriously rich and money doesn't matter. Find some people living on the street with nothing and give the money to them instead. Eliminate the middle man.

Agreed!!! 8)

 

[Independent]

I like Goonie's "church". That is also what I envision the early Christians doing.

However, I also remember Paul saying that there is nothing wrong with paying a full time pastor, "a laborer is worthy of his hire".

I also learned that the tithing requirement was for the Old Testament Jews, not for Christians.

And, certainly that it makes sense to include all my charitable contributions when I determine how much to give.

 

[Meadbh]

When I donate to charity I do so because I "love" my neighbour (caritas = love) not because I have to. A tithe levied as a condition of participation in a church or other association is involuntary and therefore, as far as I am concerned, is a tax. Tithing and charity are not the same. Tithing, as described in the old testament, predated the invention of income tax (which was introduced to pay for WWI). Church tithes are not the only ones in existence. For example, my income from seeing patients is tithed on a sliding scale by my university department. While the tithe is tax deductible, it is a work related expense which will disappear when I RE.

I do not donate to religious causes. The demonination into which I was born has shown itself to be extraordinarily corrupt and unaccountable. If it were Megacorp, I would not work for it. For my charitable donations, I prefer to select good organizations that are doing work that will achieve the goals I care about, with a minimum of administrative overhead.