Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 01-13-2015, 07:12 PM   #21
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,328
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt34 View Post
At the other extreme we have the pizza delivery driver who is on track to pull off ER. I don't know what explains the difference in behavior.
Delayed gratification - the most important factor for success?



I do think maybe some of it might be hard wired.
__________________

__________________
Even clouds seem bright and breezy, 'Cause the livin' is free and easy, See the rat race in a new way, Like you're wakin' up to a new day (Dr. Tarr and Professor Fether lyrics, Alan Parsons Project, based on an EA Poe story)
daylatedollarshort is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

For the anti-defined benefit people...
Old 01-13-2015, 07:49 PM   #22
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Mulligan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 7,384
For the anti-defined benefit people...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelB View Post
+1

Note - the link is to a Yahoo Money web page titled "5 secrets to a happy retirement" They are:

Create a predictable paycheck
Stick with what you know
Find four hobbies
Rent late in life
Keep your kids at armís length.

I think the thread title has little to do with the linked article.

Money mag had this article or a very similar one this month. Couple of survey points I thought were humorous. 1) People who had travel or golf as one of their hobbies were happier than ones whose main hobbies were reading, hunting, or fishing. They implied they were isolating hobbies and not as inclined to leading a happy life. 2) Having or not having children had no impact on happiness, but having children living within 10 miles of personal residence did lead to an unhappier one. They speculated forced babysitting.
Pretty funny stuff... So don't live near kids and if you continue to hunt or fish be prepared to take Zoloft!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
__________________

__________________
Mulligan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2015, 08:19 PM   #23
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Midwest
Posts: 1,580
Quote:
2) Having or not having children had no impact on happiness, but having children living within 10 miles of personal residence did lead to an unhappier one.

George Burns once said Happiness is having a large, loving, caring, close-knit family in another city.
__________________
razztazz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2015, 08:28 PM   #24
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,629
I think these DB vs DC arguments are rather pointless. Either can be good or bad depending on specifics. Would you rather have a tiny DB from a bankrupt ex-employer or $5Mil in your personal 401K?
__________________
ERhoosier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2015, 08:46 PM   #25
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
clifp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Hitter View Post
in hindsight I guess I should have said "it's very difficult to retire anxiety-free without one"




The Detroit autoshow is going on right now. I bet 20 or so years ago, plenty of workers (both city and Big 3) retired mostly anxiety-free. I'd say they've all had plenty of anxiety this century if they were solely dependent on their pensions. So a DB plan doesn't actually give you a worry free retirement, only the illusion.

I wish in Q4/08 and Q1/09 that I had a DB. It was scary to be in 50 with out of date skills and no job, and it would be downright terrifying if I don't have plenty of fat in my budget.

However, the same financial crash that threaten my retirement would have resulted inDetroit like cutbacks in probably 75% of the state, local, and corporate pensions in the country if the market hadn't comeback.
__________________
clifp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2015, 10:54 PM   #26
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
pb4uski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Vermont & Sarasota, FL
Posts: 16,490
Yes, and BIL's bro is a retired Detroit detective..... I don't think his DB has made him free of anxiety.
__________________
If something cannot endure laughter.... it cannot endure.
Patience is the art of concealing your impatience.
Slow and steady wins the race.
pb4uski is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2015, 11:25 PM   #27
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Chuckanut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: West of the Mississippi
Posts: 6,337
Detroit workers were also not part of SS, IIRC. So they are even more dependent on their pension than many others.
__________________
The worst decisions are usually made in times of anger and impatience.
Chuckanut is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2015, 12:45 AM   #28
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 178
How does the risk of a government or mega corp DB plan failing compare to the risk of a portfolio failing in major market crash? Either scenario is possible... if you're a worrier does it really make much difference which way your ER plan is structured.

There is always risk. The zombies won't care how your ER is funded.
__________________
34rlsa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2015, 12:47 AM   #29
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,873
Quote:
Originally Posted by audreyh1 View Post
We have a monthly "paycheck" simply by depositing the annual portfolio withdrawal in a high yield savings account, and then having $X amount, enough to cover general expenses, deposited to our bank checking account each month.
My ER plan included as a monthly income stream the monthly dividend paid out by the big bond fund I have nearly half a million dollars in. The bond fund includes bonds at the low end of investment grade and the high end of just under investment grade. The monthly dividend has dropped a bit in the last 6 years but I have greatly increased the number of shares in the fund to offset the decline in DPS. The annualized dividend yield is about 4.5%.

Last year, as a supplement to the monthly cash dividend, I began taking the quarterly stock fund dividend in cash instead of reinvesting it. The quarterly dividends pretty much coincide with the quarterly spikes in my expenses but I still have cash left over which I reinvest elsewhere. This was always anticipated as a possible change to my ER plan.
__________________
Retired in late 2008 at age 45. Cashed in company stock, bought a lot of shares in a big bond fund and am living nicely off its dividends. IRA, SS, and a pension await me at age 60 and later. No kids, no debts.

"I want my money working for me instead of me working for my money!"
scrabbler1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2015, 12:55 AM   #30
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,873
Quote:
Originally Posted by pb4uski View Post
Which is part of the point that many of us are making, that we are comfortable with risk so are not at all anxious about retiring without a defined benefit pension. A bird in the hand...(lump sum) is worth two in the bush (DB pension benefits).

That's just the reality of today. And even define benefit pensions are not all rock-solid because of overpromising and underfunding.
As I have mentioned I other threads over the years, I have both DB and DC sources in portfolio. I often referred to them as my "reinforcements" which await my unfettered access to them when I turn ~60. For example, besides SS I have a frozen company pension, a pension I hope is now on more stable grounds (not that I thought it was in any real danger) after it became frozen in 2001 when I was still working for MegaCorp. In its place is a Cash Balance plan which is a hybrid of DB and DC plans. It isn't worth anywhere near as much as the frozen pension but I can take it as a lump sum or as an annuity. Just a few days ago I asked reps from the plan administrator to find out what kind of payout options including early ones (i.e. before I turn 59.5) are available in case I need some extra money before I turn 60. Those options are okay but not great, a Plan B or Plan C, perhaps.
__________________
Retired in late 2008 at age 45. Cashed in company stock, bought a lot of shares in a big bond fund and am living nicely off its dividends. IRA, SS, and a pension await me at age 60 and later. No kids, no debts.

"I want my money working for me instead of me working for my money!"
scrabbler1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2015, 11:01 AM   #31
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 18,300
Quote:
Originally Posted by 34rlsa View Post
How does the risk of a government or mega corp DB plan failing compare to the risk of a portfolio failing in major market crash? Either scenario is possible... if you're a worrier does it really make much difference which way your ER plan is structured.

There is always risk. The zombies won't care how your ER is funded.
Well, a ~ 3% inflation adjusted WR has survived every market crash of the past, including the Great Depression, and the inflationary 80's. And that is without even making any downward adjustments.

Yes, there is risk in everything, including DB pensions (though currently covered by PBGC up to the cap).

-ERD50
__________________
ERD50 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2015, 11:32 AM   #32
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Helen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Portland
Posts: 1,356
Thanks for posting the link to this article, OP. I sent the link to someone who is in the beginning stages of deciding whether to cash in his pension or not.
__________________
Helen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2015, 12:02 PM   #33
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Colorado Mountains
Posts: 2,150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mulligan View Post
Money mag had this article or a very similar one this month. Couple of survey points I thought were humorous. 1) People who had travel or golf as one of their hobbies were happier than ones whose main hobbies were reading, hunting, or fishing. They implied they were isolating hobbies and not as inclined to leading a happy life. 2) Having or not having children had no impact on happiness, but having children living within 10 miles of personal residence did lead to an unhappier one. They speculated forced babysitting.
Pretty funny stuff... So don't live near kids and if you continue to hunt or fish be prepared to take Zoloft!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Wow. I didn't know... I must be very sad!
__________________
Hermit is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2015, 12:40 PM   #34
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,387
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Hitter View Post
in hindsight I guess I should have said "it's very difficult to retire anxiety-free without one"




What is very difficult for me is to guess what personal need you are trying to stroke with this post that seems so silly to so many of us, sitting here retired for years, who did not have a defined benefit pension. How do you think small business owners retired and continue to retire? Who gives them their defined benefit plan?

Ha
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2015, 01:34 PM   #35
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,328
Here is a link from Vanguard on the sources of retirement income for wealthier retirees. Pension income only accounts for 20% on average:

https://institutional.vanguard.com/i...ceDomain=false
__________________
Even clouds seem bright and breezy, 'Cause the livin' is free and easy, See the rat race in a new way, Like you're wakin' up to a new day (Dr. Tarr and Professor Fether lyrics, Alan Parsons Project, based on an EA Poe story)
daylatedollarshort is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2015, 02:24 PM   #36
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Big_Hitter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: In the fairway
Posts: 4,102
^ no surprise - they can afford to retire without a DB plan
__________________
Swing hard, look up
Big_Hitter is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2015, 02:25 PM   #37
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Big_Hitter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: In the fairway
Posts: 4,102
Quote:
Originally Posted by haha View Post
What is very difficult for me is to guess what personal need you are trying to stroke with this post that seems so silly to so many of us, sitting here retired for years, who did not have a defined benefit pension. How do you think small business owners retired and continue to retire? Who gives them their defined benefit plan?

Ha
nothing, thanks for your input

small business owners typically sell and retire on the profit, or they establish substantial owner DB plans and sock it away
__________________
Swing hard, look up
Big_Hitter is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2015, 02:26 PM   #38
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
2B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Houston
Posts: 4,330
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Hitter View Post
^ no surprise - they can afford to retire without a DB plan
We all can. It just comes down to making the right decisions.
__________________
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane -- Marcus Aurelius
2B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2015, 03:02 PM   #39
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Big_Hitter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: In the fairway
Posts: 4,102
of course you can - it's just more difficult, especially if you are in the bottom quartile income wise
__________________
Swing hard, look up
Big_Hitter is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2015, 03:18 PM   #40
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,328
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Hitter View Post
^ no surprise - they can afford to retire without a DB plan
A similar AARP survey says that Social Security accounts for about 4 / 5 dollars of income for older Americans with low to moderate incomes. I don't see any group in either survey living largely on pension income.

http://www.aarp.org/content/dam/aarp...i-econ-sec.pdf
__________________

__________________
Even clouds seem bright and breezy, 'Cause the livin' is free and easy, See the rat race in a new way, Like you're wakin' up to a new day (Dr. Tarr and Professor Fether lyrics, Alan Parsons Project, based on an EA Poe story)
daylatedollarshort is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
52-can i touch my defined benefit plan? felinegirl Hi, I am... 9 07-10-2010 06:52 PM
Retirement: Defined benefit vs Defined contribution.. please help! M477 FIRE and Money 42 04-03-2010 10:34 AM
Defined benefit plan Scout FIRE and Money 3 11-09-2007 01:27 PM
Defined Benefit Vs. Defined Contribution Pension Spanky FIRE and Money 24 01-18-2006 09:02 AM
Defined Benefit Plan impact on RE mickeyd FIRE and Money 23 01-13-2006 07:55 AM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:36 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.