Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 01-10-2009, 10:50 AM   #61
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,387
Quote:
Originally Posted by BunsGettingFirm View Post
Well, writing about it and doing it are two different things. I find that watching plenty of porn doesn't make me a better lover.
Try watching some lesbians. Pretty good teachers, IMO.

Ha
__________________

__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is online now   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 01-10-2009, 12:27 PM   #62
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
NW-Bound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 19,453
To me, watching porn, straight or otherwise, is like watching someone emptying an RV tank. Not enjoyable at all, but that's probably me, who is admittedly different than most people.
__________________

__________________
NW-Bound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2009, 02:13 PM   #63
Recycles dryer sheets
barbarus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 433
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moemg View Post
She still has three very pricey pieces of real estate that if sold would bring her enough to have a decent life style . Maybe not the one she enjoys now but certainly more luxurious than a lot of our lifestyles .
Is her real estate still sell-able now that the housing bubble has popped?

She may find, depending on location, that she's not doing so well in this endeavor either.

http://www.minyanville.com/articles/.../index/a/20558
__________________
Consult with only myself as your adviser or representative. My thoughts should be construed as investment advice of the highest caliber. Past performance is but a pale shadow and guarantee of even greater results in the future.
barbarus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2009, 02:23 PM   #64
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
NW-Bound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 19,453
Quote:
Originally Posted by barbarus View Post
Is her real estate still sell-able now that the housing bubble has popped?

She may find, depending on location, that she's not doing so well in this endeavor either.
If I remember correctly, she owns her places. So, she's still no baglady.

Come to think of it, she's no dummy, as her blogs would cause a resurgence of her book. And future books of hers may also bring in some income. She will recover and do all right.

Still, shouldn't we hold back our collective schadenfreude? I still feel being indirectly but significantly defrauded by those crooks in the mortgage processing and banking industries. I still feel like a chump for not shorting the hell out of them, when the news broke. Who am I to delight in calling Madoff victims stupid?
__________________
NW-Bound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2009, 03:01 PM   #65
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Moemg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sarasota,fl.
Posts: 10,040
Quote:
Originally Posted by barbarus View Post
Is her real estate still sell-able now that the housing bubble has popped?

She may find, depending on location, that she's not doing so well in this endeavor either.

Minyanville - Market Commentary, Investing Ideas, Global Finance, The Economy
Even with the downturn I bet she had over five million in real estate not exactly bag lady . Those little beach cottages alone go for over 2 million and Manhattan apts . at least two million and then there is Palm beach . So she may have lost her billionaire status but her net worth is nothing to sneeze at .
__________________
Moemg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2009, 05:14 PM   #66
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
BunsGettingFirm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,502
Quote:
Originally Posted by NW-Bound View Post
If I remember correctly, she owns her places. So, she's still no baglady.

Come to think of it, she's no dummy, as her blogs would cause a resurgence of her book. And future books of hers may also bring in some income. She will recover and do all right.

Still, shouldn't we hold back our collective schadenfreude? I still feel being indirectly but significantly defrauded by those crooks in the mortgage processing and banking industries. I still feel like a chump for not shorting the hell out of them, when the news broke. Who am I to delight in calling Madoff victims stupid?
I was not indulging in schadenfreude; I was talking about porn and my old out-of-touch boss. BTW, the latter two are not related, thank the lord.
__________________
BunsGettingFirm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2009, 05:52 PM   #67
Full time employment: Posting here.
Frugality_of_Apathy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 622
Quote:
Originally Posted by BunsGettingFirm View Post
I was not indulging in schadenfreude; I was talking about porn and my old out-of-touch boss. BTW, the latter two are not related, thank the lord.
As far as you know...
__________________
Frugality_of_Apathy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2009, 08:21 PM   #68
Recycles dryer sheets
mews's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 477
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frugality_of_Apathy View Post
As far as you know...
Well, many people have considered new careers, but ....

There are things better NOT imagined!

ta,
mews
__________________
mews is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2009, 09:38 AM   #69
Recycles dryer sheets
tgotch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 119
There's a video interview with her here, for those interested:

Free Video - Business and personal finance news from CNNMoney.com

(Madoff Victim Speaks Out)
__________________
tgotch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2009, 09:50 AM   #70
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
RonBoyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 5,281
In case anyone cares, edition IV of the PoRC's whining has been posted:

The Bag Lady Papers, Part IV - The Daily Beast

I notice the Comments have gotten a little more balanced.
__________________
"It's tough to make predictions, especially when it involves the future." ~Attributed to many
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is." ~(perhaps by) Yogi Berra
"Those who have knowledge, don't predict. Those who predict, don't have knowledge."~ Lau tzu
RonBoyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2009, 10:38 AM   #71
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
DangerMouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 1,812
Interestingly enough they interviewed this lady on the CNN special last week where they talked about Madoff and how he did it. What was crazy was articles had been published years ago saying Bernie's scheme was a scam and a copy sent to the SEC and nothing was done.

I do feel sorry for this lady, however as one of the panellist said on the above show, it is important to diversify and to never put all your eggs in one basket as many of these investors did.

I hope she is not truly taking all those tranquilizers that she refers to, as I would hate to see her sacrifice her health to Bernie along with her money.
__________________

I be a girl, he's a boy. Think I maybe FIRED since July 08. Mid 40s, no kidlets. Actually am totally clueless as to what is going on with DH.
DangerMouse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2009, 11:06 AM   #72
Full time employment: Posting here.
Frugality_of_Apathy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 622
J'refuse to read anymore to read any more from a precocious crone who's true passion is taking picture of blowup dolls in a pool.
__________________
Frugality_of_Apathy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2009, 09:49 AM   #73
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
RonBoyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 5,281
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonBoyd View Post
I notice the Comments have gotten a little more balanced.
And the anger simmers...

Bernard Madoff and the Full-Time Equivalent of Murder

Quote:
I believe we’re at the beginning of something as powerful as the civil rights movement or the protests against the Vietnam War. ...

Few readers felt that conventional white collar imprisonment was appropriate for a crime this large. ...

We may soon have a financial “equivalency” for murder. People feel it isn’t right that a man can get 5 or 10 years in prison for robbing a 7-Eleven when a white collar crime can be more devastating to more people, but get a lighter sentence. ...

We’ll be a long time figuring out the equivalences, of course, but if employers can talk in terms of “full-time equivalents” for jobs, it isn’t far-fetched to imagine that modern white collar crime may soon be seen as a new form of mass murder. ... the compensation for the average [9-11] victim was $3.1 million. ... Yet even using this gigantic figure, the $50 billion fraud is the financial equivalent of destroying 16,100 lives.
__________________
"It's tough to make predictions, especially when it involves the future." ~Attributed to many
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is." ~(perhaps by) Yogi Berra
"Those who have knowledge, don't predict. Those who predict, don't have knowledge."~ Lau tzu
RonBoyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2009, 04:41 PM   #74
Dryer sheet wannabe
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 22
I read this Bag Lady blog and it strikes me as a lot of hype. Yes this woman lost money, but as was noted above, she has properties probably worth several million (although I don't think that $5 million is accurate, based on her description of these properties). And as a direct investor with Madoff, she likely will get something from the SIPC. Probably 100K but perhaps as much as 500K. So she is no bag lady and it is arguably offensive to use that term in the context of someone who still as a net worth of millions.

More generally, I find these Madoff victims to be self-important and afflicted with a sense of entitlement. At least one of them has sued the SEC, apparently on the belief either that a regulator stands as a guarantor of losses in the market, or that a regulator assumes liability for parties who violate regulations. Remember: the next time you get mugged, sue the police.

Another one appeared as a witness before the House Financial Services Committee and actually suggested a "restitution fund" be set up by the taxpayers just for the Madoff victims. Why the median household making less than 50K and incurring 401k losses of 30-40% should provide restitution for this particular group of millionaires who likely thought they were benefitting from Madoff's insider market knowledge is beyond me.

But my favorite is the Madoff loser who wrote to Judge Stanton overseeing the Madoff Securities bankruptcy. This guy invested in one of the feeder funds available only to sophisticated wealthy investors. As a feeder fund investor, he is ineligible for SIPC compensation. So he writes to the judge and acknowledges that, per statute and SIPC rules, he is not covered. But he says the judge should just order the SIPC to compensate him and other feeder fund investors because his loss was so devastating. Laws, rules and risk apparently are for the little people.
__________________
EagleEye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2009, 01:40 AM   #75
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,387
Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleEye View Post
I read this Bag Lady blog and it strikes me as a lot of hype.
I'm with you. Today I was in McDonalds and some old woman who was bent over do far that her head was about the height of the counter was trying to see through her thick glasses well enough to count out her money for a burger off the dollar menu. The clerks were patient enough, but not particularly helpful. This is need; this is trouble.

This Victim blogger is just another elitist piece of poop who deserves nothing except whatever she can suck out of gullible readers.

ha
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2009, 08:13 AM   #76
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by haha View Post
This board loves to bash some poor dumb schmuck who has always been a poor dumb schmuck.
I really don't think she, or many of the people taken by Madoff, are "dumb schmucks". An awful lot of very bright, business people who were finanically astute (Mortimer Zuckerman, the money managers for NYU, Tufts, Bard, Henry Kaufman--former chief economist a Salomon Brothers, etc) lost money. Frankly, I think a lot of the bashing comes from people who like to see those who are more successful than themselves "fall". If what Ms. Penny writes is true, it sounds like she made her money through hard work, being creative, insightful, resourceful. How she chose to spend her money (having maid service, high count linens, 40 white shirts, a So-Ho studio, etc) is probably not the way many of us would spend our money if we had her resources, but it was her money to spend. The fact that she chose to live a "lavish" lifestyle and has now lost that ability seems to give a lot of people (sadly) some sort of satisfaction. Yes, Madoff was a crook--we know that now, but a year ago he was perceived as an upstanding, reputable, money manager.
__________________
stephenandrew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2009, 09:09 AM   #77
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
RonBoyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 5,281
Quote:
Originally Posted by stephenandrew View Post
I really don't think she, or many of the people taken by Madoff, are "dumb schmucks".
Exactly. This thread has been a real eye-opener for me. It is surprising that so many have, so easily, put the PoRC into the same category as this guy:

Leamington man loses $150,000 in Nigerian scam

The only similarity I can find is:

Quote:
“I really thought in my heart this was true,” said Rempel.
For entirely different reasons, however -- greed vs trust.

In any event, my earlier reference to Scott Burns' "same as murder" piece does hold true (IMHO) for both episodes... and for both perpetrators.
__________________
"It's tough to make predictions, especially when it involves the future." ~Attributed to many
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is." ~(perhaps by) Yogi Berra
"Those who have knowledge, don't predict. Those who predict, don't have knowledge."~ Lau tzu
RonBoyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2009, 11:09 AM   #78
Full time employment: Posting here.
Frugality_of_Apathy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 622
Quote:
Originally Posted by stephenandrew View Post
The fact that she chose to live a "lavish" lifestyle and has now lost that ability seems to give a lot of people (sadly) some sort of satisfaction. Yes, Madoff was a crook--we know that now, but a year ago he was perceived as an upstanding, reputable, money manager.
It's not that people are getting satisfaction from it, there were many other investors also that their fortunes but we aren't hunting them down to gloat. It's the arrogance that these people are displaying that I find so offensive. Suing third parties because you got conned and expecting that the government will give you the money you thought you were making based on insider trading is not going to instill sympathy. That fact that the "Bag lady" equates only having a few millions dollars with being homeless on the street is a slap in the face to 99% of the country.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RonBoyd View Post
Exactly. This thread has been a real eye-opener for me. It is surprising that so many have, so easily, put the PoRC into the same category as this guy:

Leamington man loses $150,000 in Nigerian scam
Is it really that different?

The nigerian 419 scam is much more sophisticated than the ponzi scheme. In one case, unbeknownst to you money is being sapped out of your account, in the other case you're just giving someone your money and hoping they'll give you back more later though they even acknowledge you could lose the money when they take it.

Con's always seem to work in the beginning. That's pretty much the defining aspect of a Confidence Plan; they give you great returns on your trust and build confidence, once that confidence is high enough that the Confidence Man pulls the rug out from under you and walks off your money and pride. The only difference between the two scams is how many iterations of confidence building happen before the plan is revealed.
__________________
Frugality_of_Apathy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2009, 12:38 PM   #79
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,387
Quote:
Originally Posted by stephenandrew View Post
I really don't think she, or many of the people taken by Madoff, are "dumb schmucks". An awful lot of very bright, business people who were finanically astute (Mortimer Zuckerman, the money managers for NYU, Tufts, Bard, Henry Kaufman--former chief economist a Salomon Brothers, etc) lost money.
You misunderstood my intent. I think the board gives her a fair amount of respect, precisely because she is not one of life's typical losers. She is thought by many (though not by me) to be a talented writer. She obviously had and still has money- probably even now more than many on this very board. After you have been around here for a while you will see who is disrespected. Some random dumb schmuck, or someone who had some bad luck that board members think should have been overcome or avoided by proper planning, or cheaper eating, selling one's children or whatever.

Ha
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2009, 12:49 PM   #80
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frugality_of_Apathy View Post
It's not that people are getting satisfaction from it, there were many other investors also that their fortunes but we aren't hunting them down to gloat. It's the arrogance that these people are displaying that I find so offensive. Suing third parties because you got conned and expecting that the government will give you the money you thought you were making based on insider trading is not going to instill sympathy. That fact that the "Bag lady" equates only having a few millions dollars with being homeless on the street is a slap in the face to 99% of the country.
With regard to your first point about people not getting satisfaction--I would repectfully disagree. My reading of the comments posted about her situation stirke me as people taking satisfaction that she led a lifestyle that others found "offensive" and now she is getting what she deserves. I will grant you, that this is my interpreatation of those comments, but I think many people like to see the rich/famous fall. SOem of the comments on her blog bear this (in my opinion) out.

Regarding your other point, in her particular case, I don't recall her blog making any reference about suing anyone, expecting the government to make her whole, nor do I recall her blaming anyone except Madoff. I also don't recall her really ever clarifying what her financial position is. While she may have millions in assets (e.g. an apartment in Manhattan, a cottage in Florida), I don't recall her elaborating on what her liabilities (e.g. mortgages, etc), if any, are. My point is, it would appear that she is being judged only on what she has, not on what she has and what she owes. Now, I will certainly grant you that her situation does not equate to literally being a bag lady, but if I had worked all of my life to achieve a certain level of financial status, put my money in the hands of a presumed financial expert (who was trusted by many), and I lost much of my savings, I would be distraught myself. If I am not mistaken, a few of Madoff's invetsors (who presumably still had "a lot" of money--possibly more than many people psoting in this forum) were distraught ot he point of suicide--were these suicides a "slap in the face to 99% of the country" as well? So she may be taking artistic license referring to herself as a bag lady--so what--let her bitch, let her write/share her story to make a few bucks--she is not without justification to be bitter.
__________________

__________________
stephenandrew is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Prince Harry stays home FinallyRetired Other topics 4 05-16-2007 06:11 PM
What's Up with Prince Charles? Eagle43 Other topics 14 02-14-2005 08:24 AM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:52 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.