Frugality vs. technology

[HadEnuff]

I forgot to say that I buy a new laptop computer every couple of years, which is more than just a little bit insane, KWIM? But OMG, I get such a huge kick out of it. If you think kids are happy on Christmas morning, you ought to see W2R opening the box for her new laptop computer. Which, by the way, I did just a couple of weeks ago.

Some people buy booze, I buy computers.... But the rest of that stuff? Eh, who cares.

this story reminds me of a cousin of mine who always resists any new technological toys. Partly out of frugality, and but mostly out of fear of the unknown. However, when his kids were in grade school he and his DW decided they had to get a computer so their kids would not be the only kids in town who knew nothing about them.
This was in the mid 1990s. So on Christmas morning there was a PC to put together.
As my cousin drank his coffee he urged his DW and kids to "put this thing together. Quickly, before it's obsolete."

 

[FIREmenow]

I forgot to say that I buy a new laptop computer every couple of years, which is more than just a little bit insane, KWIM? But OMG, I get such a huge kick out of it. If you think kids are happy on Christmas morning, you ought to see W2R opening the box for her new laptop computer. Which, by the way, I did just a couple of weeks ago.

Some people buy booze, I buy computers.... But the rest of that stuff? Eh, who cares.

This is a prime example of frugalality vs. technology "valuation" to me.

If you add up the number of hours you spend in front of your computer (especially if you are still using it for w*rk), and amortize the cost over that, spending $1000 every 2-3 years is PEANUTS compared to the efficiency, security, and reduced aggravation that it can provide.

I laugh (inside) at folks bragging about how they are still "getting by" on their Window XT machines with a 512MB hard disks...... Why?

 

[Sojourner]

We will probably be replacing our 18 yr old car, but here is the catch, as soon as we do, all the next year advances are missed for the following 10 years or more.

So we are holding off possibly 1 more year, to get auto-stop, auto-lane correction, auto-cruise control, auto martini mixer

Hahah... yeah this is always the catch when it comes to upgrading, and it's even more vexing now that technology is advancing so quickly. My brand new car will probably feel pretty outdated in terms of safety and convenience features in 5-7 years, but I'm the type that tends to go 10+ years between vehicle purchases. Definitely going to be harder and harder to figure out the right balance with all the incremental self-driving and improved safety technologies that are on the horizon.

Definitely applies to a lot of sporting goods - my old ski equipment, golf clubs and tennis rackets are practically worthless and much less forgiving than newer technology.

Totally agree. I have some good, new, high-quality skis and a pretty "new-ish" tennis racquet, but my golf clubs are borderline prehistoric at this point. If I decide to try to get back into golf, I'm certain an equipment upgrade will be a virtual necessity. In fact, I've wondered if part of why I gave up on golf shortly after trying to learn it about 5 years ago was my ancient, unforgiving equipment (which I inherited from an uncle many years ago).

Certain technology is moving faster than others. It seems like TVs are changing faster than computers these days, and cars seem to be having a renaissance in safety technology that could definitely pay immediate dividends over owning an older, less safe car. I guess it depends on the utility of the technology as to whether to upgrade or not. Usually it is very subjective (and relative); sometimes not so much.

The "should I upgrade?" decision is indeed highly subjective, as evidenced by the wide variety of responses in this thread. Some people seem to scoff at the idea that holding onto a 20+ year old car might result in a lower overall value than upgrading to better technology more frequently, whereas others are in the "If it makes driving substantially safer and easier and more pleasant, sign me up" camp. I guess it ultimately comes down to how we balance the value of money vs. safety, convenience, and entertainment in our lives. And I'm sure for some people, there is a complacence factor at work. Like, if it doesn't seem broken and still basically does what I need it to, then don't mess with it -- even if something newer will do that thing much better in certain ways.

 

[Fedup]

This thread reminds to research for a device to help call 911 if you fall down. That's what happened to my mother in law. She didn't have cell phone, the outcome could have been different for her. Maybe I should get an Alexa or whatever it's called from Amazon.

 

[Chuckanut]

I recently struggled with this idea of frugality and value when I realized that I haev several old 100W incandescent bulbs left in some of the less used areas of my home. The idea of tossing a perfectly good bulb that probably has a few more years of use left in it just bothers me so very much. It seems so wasteful. Yet, everything I have read indicates that replacing them with new LED bulbs or even an old fashioned florescent bulbs will pay off several times over.

So I struggle. Toss a perfectly good incandescent bulb in the trash or waste perfectly good energy? No matter what I do I will be racked with guilt. Truly a first world problem.

 

[W2R]

This is a prime example of frugalality vs. technology "valuation" to me.

If you add up the number of hours you spend in front of your computer (especially if you are still using it for w*rk), and amortize the cost over that, spending $1000 every 2-3 years is PEANUTS compared to the efficiency, security, and reduced aggravation that it can provide.

I laugh (inside) at folks bragging about how they are still "getting by" on their Window XT machines with a 512MB hard disks...... Why?

GMTA!! That's just the way I think about it, too. Even though I am retired, I spend a lot of time on my computer and it is important to me.

Also, when I am done with my old laptops I restore them to factory configuration and then give them to Frank. He loves getting them for some reason. So, we are both happy.

 

[Midpack]

How do you do these types of calculations when trying to decide when to replace older things? Obviously there is a balance between constantly buying the latest and greatest in order to always have the most beneficial technologies and hanging on to something until it basically falls apart in order to minimize the money spent on that class of item over your lifetime. But what is the right balance?

Perfectly good point, but as you note in your conclusion, there is no universal answer or "right balance." What each of us values depends on each of us, our $ resources, the relative importance of each buying decision, etc.

I will use our washer and dryer until they outright fail, there's no downside to waiting to me. I trade in cars when I don't think they're reliable enough anymore (admittedly subjective), typically 8-12 years, not due to safety or tech advances (thought I enjoy them). I might buy the cheapest glasses I can find, and you may buy expensive glasses, that will change the value proposition for both of us. On and on and on...

Good point, but one we each have to answer for ourselves. Most here seemingly value $ over features/newest thing in general, but that's where our similarities diverge. The mainstream seems to value features/newest thing over $, and they get to work (much) longer as a result...

 

[Chuckanut]

The "should I upgrade?" decision is indeed highly subjective, as evidenced by the wide variety of responses in this thread. Some people seem to scoff at the idea that holding onto a 20+ year old car might result in a lower overall value than upgrading to better technology more frequently, whereas others are in the "If it makes driving substantially safer and easier and more pleasant, sign me up" camp.

Overall, I am not quick to upgrade to the latest version of whatever appliance or toy I have. But, there are two exceptions.

First, is safety. If a newer car is appreciably safer then I think the upgrade cost is worth it. Let's face it, the downside of driving a very old car can be death, permanent disability or many dollars in medical costs. The same goes with some older power tools I had.

Second is maintenance. If the device requires repairs/maintenance at some regular level and the parts necessary to repair it are getting hard to find, it may be time to upgrade. Electronics seem to top the list, especially computers, phones, etc. Anything that requires software updates to keep current or fix security holes is especially vulnerable.

 

[Major Tom]

Also, when I am done with my old laptops I restore them to factory configuration and then give them to Frank. He loves getting them for some reason. So, we are both happy.

If you're using a computer to run specific older applications, particularly if you don't need internet access and the latest protection against viruses and malware, then an older model can work very well. Some folk will install an older operating system, or something like Linux, and their old machines will just purr. As Frank is a ham, I'm guessing there are plenty of radio related applications he can use an older laptop for. It can be very useful having a machine just to run a few specific programs, than one "do-it-all" device.

Frank's a lucky guy to have a regular supply of old laptops. Well - I know he's a lucky guy with you for plenty of other reasons too!

 

[Lsbcal]

Maybe I should replace our 2004 Honda CRV with a new one? That should probably be my next project.

Right now I remind myself the best accident prevention is to concentrate on the road. This article on safety mentions the better steal in new cars:
Why Cars Are Safer Than They’ve Ever Been

So it's not just about the wizzy new electronics.

These advances in steel—along with strategic use of other materials such as aluminum, magnesium, and carbon fiber—allow engineers to design structures that can dissipate and redirect crash forces. For example, the new Cadillac CTS uses lightweight aluminum "crush cans" up front to soak up a lot of energy before an impact reaches the passengers. Even the CTS's seat-belt spools unwind slightly during a crash to help minimize forces on your body.

 

[brett]

We bought a higher end outdoor gas barbeque. Not a large one. Not especially expensive. Just more expensive than some of the hardware store brands/types. I wanted a well known brand, with parts list and replacement parts that could be easily replaced.

That was over 20 years ago. Still have it and very happy. Replaced the burners once, plus a few other minor items. It is not shiny stainless steel but it works well.

I don't like shopping and I don't like buying junk. If we could not afford something good I either waited until we could or bought it second hand. Saved a lot of money and a lot of hassle by doing this.

 

[Sojourner]

I had 2001 car and now have a 2011 car. They get the same gas mileage and have essentially the same safety features. Today's cars don't seem to have anything safer.

I don't see how you can seriously claim that 2017-18 cars don't have any safety improvements over cars from 15+ years ago. There are numerous studies that show cars today are much safer than in years past. I just read one that reported a 50% reduction in automobile fatalities (mostly due to increased safety technology) since 2000.

If you remain unconvinced, this article gives a pretty in-depth look at advances in vehicle safety: Why Cars Are Safer Than They've Ever Been

As for mattresses, they are are low tech. The mattress I have is just as new as the day I bought it almost 25 years ago. Maybe it's because I don't weigh a lot and I turn the mattress once every 5 years. Lumpy and misshapen? Are you jumping on your mattress or something? I always laugh at the radio commercials that suggest one should change a mattress every 7 years. Who came up with that idiotic sales pitch?

I would assume mattress technology has improved to some degree over the past 10-15 years, or at least that's what I'm hoping since the 16 year-old one I sleep on every night has seen better days. I don't jump on it , but I do get the feeling I must be kind of hard on mattresses... or maybe I'm just not smart or savvy enough when it comes to buying them. This time around, I'm going to check out some of those "try before you buy" online mattress sellers that will let you return a mattress within 100 days if you don't like it. As I grown older I've decided that a good night's sleep is important enough that the needle should be tilted towards the "upgrade to newer, better technology more frequently" side. Not every 7 years like the industry wants us to believe, but in my case, probably more often than every 16 years.

 

[ERD50]

I recently struggled with this idea of frugality and value when I realized that I haev several old 100W incandescent bulbs left in some of the less used areas of my home. The idea of tossing a perfectly good bulb that probably has a few more years of use left in it just bothers me so very much. It seems so wasteful. Yet, everything I have read indicates that replacing them with new LED bulbs or even an old fashioned florescent bulbs will pay off several times over.

So I struggle. Toss a perfectly good incandescent bulb in the trash or waste perfectly good energy? No matter what I do I will be racked with guilt. Truly a first world problem.

But if it is an area that isn't used much, I would not worry about the wasted energy. It will be minuscule, and probably better to not throw it away than to toss it and generate the (likely larger) pollution/energy required for the replacement.

-ERD50

 

[ArkTinkerer]

Some of the old things are much better than the
new ones. My "new" grill is now 5 years old. Heavy cast iron grill, heavy steel shell, cast iron end plates. Same basic model as what it replaced--inherited from my father. I drive older vehicles--very little electronics. Have parts in hand to replace the doors so I can have hand cranked windows. I am considering upgrading to an open source throttle body fuel injection for the engine. I did give in and replace the wheels so I would have less trouble sourcing the now unpopular 15" tires. But these costs are a tiny fraction of the cost of a new vehicle. I can work on these vehicles and fix or replace just about anything. It does cost me gas mileage but I would have to drive a huge number of miles to reclaim the cost of even a bottom tier vehicle at todays prices.

To be fair, I haven't included the cost of the "garage-mahal" I'm building or the tools I have acquired. But a man's gotta have some hobby!

 

[Lsbcal]

We have a bright red BBQ. Weber 30 years old in great shape. DW tries to sucker me into cooking but I don't bite often.

 

[broadway]

My Honda Accord will be 14 years old this year.
The front airbags mechanism were changed by the dealer as a result of a recent recall.
I do wish though that it has side airbags. That safety feature is important.

 

[jollystomper]

I try to differentiate between "practical" vs. "entertainment" advances. Car safety items I classify as practical, and it makes sense to try to stay current, though you don't have to be super current - cars 3-5 years old probably have 90% of the safety features as compared to new cars today.

The "entertainment" advances depends on your lifestyle and what floats your boat. I went to flat screen TVs primarily due to the physical improvements. But the resolution - I'm fine with 720p or 1080p, I do not watch enough TV to care about 4K.

The other, perhaps" sinister aspect... newer technology also opens up additional ways to track your movements and usage. Like cars being able to record how fast you were going when an accident occurred. Or smart TVs tracking and reporting what you are watching. It is a tradeoff to consider.

 

[Beldar]

Drive it 'till it drops is my approach to most of these concerns. Unless something has reached an irreparable failure mode or is unsafe then I don't replace it. Heck, I use tube-type radios and Edison phonographs all the time (although I do admit that is one of my collecting hobbies).

Now the vice grip pliers in lieu of stripped control knobs on our 30 year old Kenmore washer was the last straw (not for ME of course, but for DW). So, sometimes uncontrollable outside forces can upset my frugal plans.


_B

 

[misshathaway]

My rationale for getting rid of big seldom-used items, for instance an ancient air conditioner and a very tall wooden ladder, is that when/if I need it, technology will make the replacement better.

For things that do need replacement now, often the replacement has some features that you didn't even know existed, that delight. I put my iPhone 5 through the washing machine which was very annoying b/c it worked just fine and I thought I didn't need a newer phone. I got an iPhone 6 refurb. It has a better camera. I thought I did not care about that as a feature. And THEN I took my first eBay item picture with it. Wow! And sometimes you have made adjustments for say, the button on the microwave that stopped working 3 years ago so you have to push 9 other ones instead to do what that one did. You have been doing this for so long that you don't notice it any more. Then you get the new thing and it just works ... ahhhh. So now I add the possibility of hidden benefits into the purchase decision.

 

[FIYes]

I tend to be in the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" category. However, I am seriously considering replacing my 5.5 year old car. I want some of the new features. Only thing is....I absolutely hate car shopping.
As far as mattresses go, I am totally amazed that there seem to be mattress stores on every corner. My mattress doesn't feel lumpy or uncomfortable to me and it is ancient. My mother bought this bedroom set in 1970. She gave it to us in 1982. We still use the original mattress. Now if I notice that it is uncomfortable it will be replaced. So far it seems just fine.

 

[Sunset]

......
If you add up the number of hours you spend in front of your computer (especially if you are still using it for w*rk), and amortize the cost over that, spending $1000 every 2-3 years is PEANUTS compared to the efficiency, security, and reduced aggravation that it can provide.

....

When in front of my computer, the biggest impact to my enjoyment is the view, so a few years ago, I upgraded to 2 big monitors (27").

 

[kcowan]

I use Chromecast for my TVs. Use my iPhone as the remote. Dumb TV plus Chromecast!

Drive old cars (9, 12, 23 yo) but don't drive much.

Have new mattresses in both places. New fridge down south.

Pioneer sound system but need the remote fixed.

BBQs are 10yo and maintained.

 

[Fedup]

Definitely new TV when price comes down to reasonable level. Not bigger but more resolution. 4K or something.

 

[imoldernu]

As to cars:
Love my 1998 Signature Town car... looks showroom new, and drives like... Like a big Lincoln. JBL speakers, adjustable everything, and smooth air ride. Missing the computer dash etc, but being as we don't go very far, doesn't matter. No need for GPS, and even if we had it, probably wouldn't use it.

The other car is a '96 Cadillac SLS. It has a Bose system, and all the bells and whistles, and is still fast, though I don't drag the youngsters any more. Not a scratch or trace of rust. She's now old enough to drink.

Engine compartments of both cars are kept immaculate, and shock the guys who do the oil changes.

Will spend up to $5,000 for any repairs, on either car... Logic is Cost/Benefit ratio, and our life expectancy. Driving 4,000 miles per year doesn't call for a $25,000 new car, and a used car keeps the repair cost risk. We still use both cars.

If ya like it... keep it!
My 7 or 8 computers and tablets all work faster than I can think, so no need to upgrade.

The only item on our "want" list, is an electric can/bottle screw-off top opener. Mr. Muscle isn't so much anymore.

 

[foxfirev5]

We're in the keep it for as long as it works camp. DW's 2005 Lexus looks and drives like new. Our mid sized SUV is only two years old and I expect that to last at least 12 years. While working I drove over 50k per year and found out first hand that 200k is the new 100k for reasonable life of a vehicle.

When our HVAC went out while we were on vacation the repairman tried to sell our son a new unit to replace our 20 year old model. He knew better and had it fixed. While the A/C is not nearly as efficient as a new one, we only used it about 10-12 days last year.
The furnace was a state of the art 92% efficiency model when installed in new construction. More money up front but well worth it. When it wears out we'll replace it with a new high end model, but not until absolutely necessary.

As far as computers go, about all we do anymore is internet stuff. A laptop and a tablet cover all our needs. Recently when my full service desktop with MS Office died I discovered I really don't need spreadsheets anyway. All the preretirement planning stuff is in the rearview mirror. Now it's similar to my working years. Live on what they pay you. Interest / Dividends/ Mini Pension/ Maturing CD's and eventual SS provide the paycheck. We keep track of the bills on a legal pad, manage our taxes and put some away for major expenses down the road.

Smart phones are another item which has not made the transition to ER. It was a great relief to drop that in the box on my last day of work last year. I haven't missed it a bit. If you want to talk to me - simply call.