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Old 04-13-2011, 08:21 AM   #81
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So we have 75 posts, mostly by folks who are (at least) millionaires. The vast majority include bellyaching and handwringing over what amounts to something like $50 a month of incremental expense which can largely be avoided by said posters if they wish. I wonder what this thread would sound like to the average Merkin?
Not being concerned about $50/month is what keeps them "average"!

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Old 04-13-2011, 10:31 AM   #82
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And yes, I do expect some accomodations when I am driving at night because I don't want to be blinded and create a hazard for everyone else, whether they are driving a small car or a large one. I don't want to blind others, they should not want to blind me, either.
What "accomodations" would you propose? All those folks driving countless SUV's, pickups, minivans, and trucks aren't deliberately trying to blind you; they're just operating their vehicles as designed by the manufacturers and approved by the DOT ( the occasional high-beam driver or jacked-up monster truck excluded, they p*ss me off, too).

With all due respect, have you seen an opthamalogist to determine if your night vision is becoming a problem? Continuing to drive at night knowing you will be blinded by most vehicles on the road constitutes a real hazard to yourself and others, IMO; YMMV.

This reminds me of the story about the guy who was watching a breaking TV news story, showing helicopter footage of a car driving the wrong way on a busy interstate, and cars swerving to get out the way.. Knowing that his wife would probably be driving that route on her way home, he called to warn her. She was frantic when she answered her cell phone "It's not just one car, it's all of them!"
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Old 04-13-2011, 10:58 AM   #83
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This reminds me of the story about the guy who was watching a breaking TV news story, showing helicopter footage of a car driving the wrong way on a busy interstate, and cars swerving to get out the way.. Knowing that his wife would probably be driving that route on her way home, he called to warn her. She was frantic when she answered her cell phone "It's not just one car, it's all of them!"
.
And talking on the cell phone on top of that.
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Old 04-13-2011, 12:49 PM   #84
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What "accomodations" would you propose? All those folks driving countless SUV's, pickups, minivans, and trucks aren't deliberately trying to blind you; they're just operating their vehicles as designed by the manufacturers and approved by the DOT ( the occasional high-beam driver or jacked-up monster truck excluded, they p*ss me off, too).

With all due respect, have you seen an opthamalogist to determine if your night vision is becoming a problem? Continuing to drive at night knowing you will be blinded by most vehicles on the road constitutes a real hazard to yourself and others, IMO; YMMV.

This reminds me of the story about the guy who was watching a breaking TV news story, showing helicopter footage of a car driving the wrong way on a busy interstate, and cars swerving to get out the way.. Knowing that his wife would probably be driving that route on her way home, he called to warn her. She was frantic when she answered her cell phone "It's not just one car, it's all of them!"
Accommodations? How about not tailgating other vehicles. Yes, tailgating is bad no matter what you are driving, but vehicles which have these headlights pose an additional hazard to the leading vehicle, one that vehicles with ordinary headlights don't pose. These heavier vehicles require longer stopping distances than smaller cars, so tailgating poses this extra hazard, too. And when one of these vehicles is behind me at a stop sign or red light, don't get so close behind the leading vehicle. Stay back a few extra feet so your headlights don't needlessly blind the other driver. [A similar accommodation I do is when I am at a red light or stop sign when the leading car is uphill from me - I stay back a few feet in case the vehicle ahead of me has a standard shift (I used to drive one). That car is likely to roll backward a little bit as the driver releases the clutch to more forward.] I find that I am more likely to be tailgated by an SUV or light truck than I am from an ordinary car (except for sports cars), hardly the way the vehicle was designed to be operated.

My night vision is just fine, I don't need any eye doctor, thank you. I need to have fewer extra-bright headlights from these vehicles not blind me at a needlessly close distance, that's all.

So if higher gas prices keep some of these extra hazardous vehicles off the road, I am all for it.
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Old 04-13-2011, 01:00 PM   #85
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Accommodations? How about not tailgating other vehicles. Yes, tailgating is bad no matter what you are driving, but vehicles which have these headlights pose an additional hazard to the leading vehicle, one that vehicles with ordinary headlights don't pose. These heavier vehicles require longer stopping distances than smaller cars, so tailgating poses this extra hazard, too. And when one of these vehicles is behind me at a stop sign or red light, don't get so close behind the leading vehicle. Stay back a few extra feet so your headlights don't needlessly blind the other driver. [A similar accommodation I do is when I am at a red light or stop sign when the leading car is uphill from me - I stay back a few feet in case the vehicle ahead of me has a standard shift (I used to drive one). That car is likely to roll backward a little bit as the driver releases the clutch to more forward.] I find that I am more likely to be tailgated by an SUV or light truck than I am from an ordinary car (except for sports cars), hardly the way the vehicle was designed to be operated.

My night vision is just fine, I don't need any eye doctor, thank you. I need to have fewer extra-bright headlights from these vehicles not blind me at a needlessly close distance, that's all.

So if higher gas prices keep some of these extra hazardous vehicles off the road, I am all for it.
Keep up the good fight, let us know how it works out for you.
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Old 04-13-2011, 03:35 PM   #86
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Guess what kiddies, to hell with fuel prices, I will be splashing my 50 silverton convertible in 2 weeks which pulls in an impressive 1/2 mile per gallon of diesel! Now that is some fuel economy for ya!
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Old 04-13-2011, 03:37 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by scrabbler1 View Post
Accommodations? How about not tailgating other vehicles. Yes, tailgating is bad no matter what you are driving, but vehicles which have these headlights pose an additional hazard to the leading vehicle, one that vehicles with ordinary headlights don't pose. These heavier vehicles require longer stopping distances than smaller cars, so tailgating poses this extra hazard, too.e was designed to be operated.
all.
..........
So if higher gas prices keep some of these extra hazardous vehicles off the road, I am all for it.
Fuel cost thread drifted a tad. I bolded a section re: stopping distance.

Here is a bit of relevant info from:

Auto Stopping Distance
Stopping Distance for Auto

Assuming proper operation of the brakes, the minimum stopping distance for an automobile is determined by the effective coefficient of friction between the tires and the road. The friction force of the road must do enough work on the car to reduce its kinetic energy to zero (work-energy principle). If the wheels of the car continue to turn while braking, then static friction is operating, while if the wheels are locked and sliding over the road surface, the braking force is a kinetic friction force.

To reduce the kinetic energy to zero:


so the stopping distance is
Show calculation Note that this implies a stopping distance independent of vehicle mass. It also implies a quadrupling of stopping distance with a doubling of vehicle speed.
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Regarding the gas costs, I have no intention of changing driving habits of my monster Suburban at 12 MPG, nor my Jaguar XJ6 @ 22 MPG.
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Old 04-13-2011, 03:39 PM   #88
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Damn. Facts? Again? Sheesh...
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Old 04-13-2011, 03:49 PM   #89
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A beautiful theory wrecked by ugly facts.
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Old 04-13-2011, 03:51 PM   #90
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Guess what kiddies, to hell with fuel prices, I will be splashing my 50 silverton convertible in 2 weeks which pulls in an impressive 1/2 mile per gallon of diesel! Now that is some fuel economy for ya!
Yeah but hard to beat the $hit eating grin while guzzlig all that dino juice.
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Old 04-13-2011, 09:46 PM   #91
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Note that this implies a stopping distance independent of vehicle mass. It also implies a quadrupling of stopping distance with a doubling of vehicle speed.
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Independent of vehicle mass, yes, but there is a potentially poor assumption that the coefficient of static friction (or traction) is the same between light and heavy mass vehicles. (We'll also make the reasonable assumption that all vehicles are able to lock up their tires and skid at any nominal speed.)

The coefficient of friction is a function of tire compound, effective contact area (one might consider this to be the bearing surface area), and tire tread design.

So a car with soft rubber, large tires, and lower tire pressures will have a much larger coefficient of friction than a vehicle with relatively smaller tires relative to mass, a harder rubber compound, and possibly higher tire pressures to accommodate extra vehicle mass.

If we consider a sports car and a work truck, this difference in coefficient of friction can be quite large and definitely results in a difference in stopping distance. I'd posit that one could draw a statistically significant correlation between vehicle mass and stopping distance based on expected vehicle use and tire choice.
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Old 04-14-2011, 08:12 AM   #92
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So we have 75 posts, mostly by folks who are (at least) millionaires. The vast majority include bellyaching and handwringing over what amounts to something like $50 a month of incremental expense which can largely be avoided by said posters if they wish. I wonder what this thread would sound like to the average Merkin?
They wouldn't be able to hear the thread over the rumble of their pickup's Hemi 6.4L V8.
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Old 04-14-2011, 08:37 AM   #93
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Maybe it's just me, but if you don't mind sending your sons and daughters and tax dollars to the ME to defend corrupt dictators who fund terrorism and promote radical Islam, then feel free to drive anything you want, because, by god, we're Americans, and you can't tell us what to do...

Damned socialists!
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Old 04-14-2011, 09:20 AM   #94
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Guess what kiddies, to hell with fuel prices, I will be splashing my 50 silverton convertible in 2 weeks which pulls in an impressive 1/2 mile per gallon of diesel! Now that is some fuel economy for ya!
Now THAT'S a nice boat!!!
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Old 04-14-2011, 09:21 AM   #95
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Maybe it's just me, but if you don't mind sending your sons and daughters and tax dollars to the ME to defend corrupt dictators who fund terrorism and promote radical Islam, then feel free to drive anything you want, because, by god, we're Americans, and you can't tell us what to do...

Damned socialists!

Tell us how you REALLY feel!
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Old 04-14-2011, 09:40 AM   #96
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Tell us how you REALLY feel!
Coffee depraved deprived...
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Old 04-14-2011, 09:52 AM   #97
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Coffee depraved deprived...
Switch to Tea... I hear they like to party....
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Old 04-14-2011, 09:52 AM   #98
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I drive 18,000 miles or so a year, DW only 10,000. So that's why I have the 4 banger and give her the 2 ton terror (minivan) to drive..........

Europe has loads of diesel and other high mileage cars, yet most of them never see the US shores, that's a shame.........
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Old 04-14-2011, 10:06 AM   #99
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Fuel cost thread drifted a tad. I bolded a section re: stopping distance.

Here is a bit of relevant info from:

Auto Stopping Distance
Stopping Distance for Auto

Assuming proper operation of the brakes, the minimum stopping distance for an automobile is determined by the effective coefficient of friction between the tires and the road. The friction force of the road must do enough work on the car to reduce its kinetic energy to zero (work-energy principle). If the wheels of the car continue to turn while braking, then static friction is operating, while if the wheels are locked and sliding over the road surface, the braking force is a kinetic friction force.

To reduce the kinetic energy to zero:


so the stopping distance is
Show calculation Note that this implies a stopping distance independent of vehicle mass. It also implies a quadrupling of stopping distance with a doubling of vehicle speed.
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Regarding the gas costs, I have no intention of changing driving habits of my monster Suburban at 12 MPG, nor my Jaguar XJ6 @ 22 MPG.


The problem with what you present is "the minimum stopping distance for an automobile is determined by the effective coefficient of friction between the tires and the road." You seem to think that this friction is the same for all vehicles...


If you look at the stopping distance of most trucks/SUVs they are a bit longer than a sports car.... and almost all 18 wheelers take a lot longer to stop... sure, you can have more tires or wider tires etc. so a truck can stop quicker... but most do not...
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Old 04-14-2011, 10:07 AM   #100
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Independent of vehicle mass, yes, but there is a potentially poor assumption that the coefficient of static friction (or traction) is the same between light and heavy mass vehicles. (We'll also make the reasonable assumption that all vehicles are able to lock up their tires and skid at any nominal speed.)

The coefficient of friction is a function of tire compound, effective contact area (one might consider this to be the bearing surface area), and tire tread design.

So a car with soft rubber, large tires, and lower tire pressures will have a much larger coefficient of friction than a vehicle with relatively smaller tires relative to mass, a harder rubber compound, and possibly higher tire pressures to accommodate extra vehicle mass.

If we consider a sports car and a work truck, this difference in coefficient of friction can be quite large and definitely results in a difference in stopping distance. I'd posit that one could draw a statistically significant correlation between vehicle mass and stopping distance based on expected vehicle use and tire choice.
OK... saw this after I posted... but I will leave my other post alone..
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