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Re: Generic ER: *Any takers?
Old 04-05-2005, 06:03 PM   #21
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Re: Generic ER: *Any takers?

That's just about where we are. DH and I retired at 44 and 45 last year with $1M plus paid off house and car.

So far, we're at 1.3% SWR, generating about $21,000 from interest and dividends and taking 1.3% more - last year averaged about $34,000.

We have catastrophic health insurance for $193 per month for both ($5,000 deductible), pay outright for high blood pressure and high cholesterol meds. We're generally healthy and not overweight.

I've known several folks who've retired (at 62 or 65) only to have their spouse drop dead 2 weeks later.

At least we know that's not going to happen to us.



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Re: Generic ER: *Any takers?
Old 04-05-2005, 07:07 PM   #22
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Re: Generic ER: *Any takers?

Sparky:

Who's insuring you and where are you? I'm searching for a similar health insurance plan when I RE.

Thanks.
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Re: Generic ER: *Any takers?
Old 04-05-2005, 07:12 PM   #23
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Re: Generic ER: *Any takers?

Quote:
So far, we're at 1.3% SWR, generating about $21,000 from interest and dividends and taking 1.3% more - last year averaged about $34,000.
That's actually a withdrawal rate of 3.4%. You need to include all withdrawals including interest and dividends.

As for the original question I might very well take the ~1.3M (after selling the house and cars) and retire. However, my expenses in the early years will be highly adjustable (I'll be a perpetual traveller - if the portfolio does poorly it means more time in cheaper countries) and as a fallback for medical issues I have access to the national health care of 3 different countries.
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Re: Generic ER: *Any takers?
Old 04-05-2005, 08:42 PM   #24
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Re: Generic ER: *Any takers?

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Sheryl was the 1M liquid + house+cars paid that led to the 1.3M+ estimate of total net worth. One could sell and rent/travel and live of the 1.3M. Cheers!
Thanks for the clarification, Ben. I guess I always think in terms of "usable" assets, and since I plan to keep my house at this point, I don't add it into the mix. Same with car, not an asset I can use to generate income so I don't consider it part of the "stash."

I am very interested and encouraged by this thread. It's good to hear the different opinions on "enough."
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Re: Generic ER: *Any takers?
Old 04-05-2005, 08:48 PM   #25
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Re: Generic ER: *Any takers?

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(I'll be a perpetual traveller - if the portfolio does poorly it means more time in cheaper countries).
This decision really intersts me. I've thought about it but don't think I'd be content with that lifestyle long-term. Have you thought much about what it will be like on a day-to-day basis? Every time I visit a new place, I contemplate what I would "do all day" there.

I think I'm too hung up on my house and "stuff." My vision of ER involves lots of puttering around the house and garden, working on hobbies and projects, working with local charities, etc. But I do envision extended traveling at least 3-4 mos. total out of the year.
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Yeah but.
Old 04-06-2005, 08:16 AM   #26
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Yeah but.

Quote:
I will use $1000 per month = $12000 per year X 25 = $300,000 (using the SWR approach)
It wasn't a big factor until now, but I can see that 15% inflation is a problem for just about every "S"WR.
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Re: Generic ER:  Any takers?
Old 04-06-2005, 08:30 AM   #27
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Re: Generic ER:  Any takers?

People here might cringe, but we are thinking a million dollars allocated for healthcare and hope inflation isn't too bad.

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Re: Generic ER:  Any takers?
Old 04-06-2005, 09:00 AM   #28
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Re: Generic ER:  Any takers?

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People here might cringe, but we are thinking a million dollars allocated for healthcare and hope inflation isn't too bad.
Martha,

If I need that much health care just shoot me and be done with it

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Re: Generic ER:  Any takers?
Old 04-06-2005, 11:02 AM   #29
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Re: Generic ER:  Any takers?

Well, maybe 750,000 to 1,000,000. I am considering the fact that we have no retiree health benefits and we are self insuring for LTC. One of us also has to regularly take a very expensive drug. If healthcare inflation continues its current trends, not sure where it will stop.

EDIT: my take on generic retirement is have no less than two million if you are relatively young, maybe 50 or less. For what it is worth.
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Re: Generic ER: *Any takers?
Old 04-06-2005, 01:19 PM   #30
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Re: Generic ER: *Any takers?

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People here might cringe, but we are thinking a million dollars allocated for healthcare and hope inflation isn't too bad.
Well Martha, you have just proved that there is no caution like an attorney's caution.

My guess is that well before things get this bad, steps will be taken. Almost every business in America would either go bankrupt or cancel its health coverage, not only for retirees but for workers. Even the blood sucking governments may not be able to suck enough to give the sweet deal that our esteemed civil servants are used to.

Remember Stein's Law-"If something can't go on forever, it won't."

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Re: Generic ER: *Any takers?
Old 04-06-2005, 01:40 PM   #31
 
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Re: Generic ER: *Any takers?

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People here might cringe, but we are thinking a million dollars allocated for healthcare and hope inflation isn't too bad. *
Well, I'm gonna make them cringe even a little more. *

My wife and I are extremely healthy, eat well, exercise daily. But we are realistic and know that we are probably going to die by the time we reach 95. - And we also know and live like life won't be any fun after age 85! - That's only about 30 years for me, and I don't plan on spending it stressing over health care costs. - Which is probably harmful to your health as well!

We are planning on buying a catastrophic health plan with a very high deductable. - If this can be had for around $6K per year in today's dollars - fine. If it gets more expensive than this, we'll roll the dice and go without. 8)

The statistics bear this out to some degree. 70% of all medical costs in the U.S. are administered in the last year of life! - In other words - They don't work anyway! - What you are paying for is months of torture ending in death anyway! - So let's get real about this!

- *Yes, I know anyone here can pose a scenario where this is really risky. But gurananteeing poverty to pay for medical insurance does not work either! Tell me anything that is guaranteed in life!
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Re: Generic ER: *Any takers?
Old 04-06-2005, 03:34 PM   #32
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Re: Generic ER: *Any takers?

My what a morbid turn this thread has taken. Indulge me to unburden myself on it.

Quote:
Tell me anything that is guaranteed in life! ???
We can guarantee that you're gonna die. We just can't guarantee when or by what method cause.

A few years ago the Nimitz's suicides sent a big shock wave through the submarine force. (A few cynics "joked" that he was motivated by the thought of having to file more TRICARE claims.) We submariners have somewhat of a reputation for being control freaks and I'm sure that most of us are carrying this article in our "Medical Directives" files.

Chester Jr's approach may work if you have a healthy brain trapped in a failing body, but what about dementia or Alzheimer's? If you tell your spouse today to "Just shoot me when I get to that point", by the time you reach that point you're certainly no longer you. You may still be living but the you you used to be isn't you any more (if you'll tolerate my tortured syntax). The you you'll be will surely strenuously object if the you you used to be attempts to direct any "posthumous suicide" attempts. And good grief, what if your religion involves an afterlife or punishment for suicide?!?

You marriage veterans can imagine how long it took my wife and I to get through that last paragraph of conversation, and the Pope's lifelong example was no help at all. She seems determined to maintain a stash of sleeping pills (with long-term expiration dates) "just in case". I certainly owe her enough to help her open the pill bottle, but I'm not sure that I'm able to fulfill the dubious distinction of administering the coup de grace. While I can't argue with her (especially not when she's armed with all those narcotics AND cooking our meals), I can't forget my grandfather's example.

The grandfather he used to be was gone in deep dementia by age 84, but he lived a hale & hearty 14 additional years in a CCF. I think they were the happiest years of his adult life. Every morning he rediscovered the complete works of Shakespeare by his bedside, although he couldn't focus long enough to get through more than the first 15 pages. Every visit he was thrilled to see us, and its novelty recurred about every 20 minutes. He couldn't remember the conversation from five minutes ago, but early 20th-century American culture was perpetually looping through his brain as an amazing oral history. He wasn't the gruff, laconic businessman of my youth or the grumpy old man of my young adulthood-- he was a cheerful, talkative guy with amazing stories of growing up on a farm, having dinner with the original Mr. Kroger, and helping to build Ohio's electrical infrastructure. Our kid still asks me to tell her the stories so that she has them right.

If I encore that performance 40 or 50 years from now, I hope that my grandkids will enjoy it as much as I did. And I still haven't decided whether or not they should frisk my wife before she visits...
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Re: Generic ER: *Any takers?
Old 04-06-2005, 04:18 PM   #33
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Re: Generic ER: *Any takers?

If I still have sufficient facilities and a functional
trigger finger, I intend to take the Hemingway exit.
If done right, it should be painless. I have seen the alternative. Not interested.

JG
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Re: Generic ER:  Any takers?
Old 04-07-2005, 06:42 AM   #34
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Re: Generic ER:  Any takers?

Quote:

Well Martha, you have just proved that there is no caution like an attorney's caution.

My guess is that well before things get this bad, steps will be taken. Almost every business in America would either go bankrupt or cancel its health coverage, not only for retirees but for workers. Even the blood sucking governments may not be able to suck enough to give the sweet deal that our esteemed civil servants are used to.

Remember Stein's Law-"If something can't go on forever, it won't."

Mikey
Steins Law better be right. If I quit today, I figured my next year's medical costs with COBRA and estimated copays and deductible would be $15,700. Inflation for our medical insurance and elsewhere in the market (an insurance agent tells me) has been at 14% a year. If that rate of inflation continued, the yearly costs would double at about every five years. In five years my costs would be $30,225; in ten years, $58,203; and n fifteen years, $112,066.

Martha

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Re: Generic ER:  Any takers?
Old 04-07-2005, 07:23 AM   #35
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Re: Generic ER:  Any takers?

JG, a 12 gauge solution would be messy but it's good to have as a last resort I guess :P

Cut-Throat has a great point when he says it makes little sense to accept impoverishment from health insurance premiums just to extend what will likely be your final, crappy year of life. Medicaid could do that. If we only knew how things would play out...Nords has a touching example of the other extreme. If it was a choice between poverty, and going bare during the last few years before Medicare I think I would go bare. Although, it might make more sense to do this preemptively during your younger, healthier years (assuming insurance could be obtained later on)

I'd rather live well during my younger, vital years. If you're stuck in a wheel chair and half out of it anyway does poverty make it much worse?

What was that original topic again?
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Re: Generic ER: *Any takers?
Old 04-07-2005, 07:55 AM   #36
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Re: Generic ER: *Any takers?

1993-2005, age 49-soon to be 62, no health insurance of any kind what so ever.

Health insurance costs even back then would have canceled ER - I'd still be working.

Each must examine his own risks/trade-offs. You can't control the future - laying off the bets via insurance for various risks is a personal choice.

J.G. - the Finn solution is a bottle of vodka and a snowbank - less messy and more pleasant - you just go to sleep. Good excuse to visit up North.

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Re: Generic ER:  Any takers?
Old 04-07-2005, 08:50 AM   #37
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Re: Generic ER:  Any takers?

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J.G. - the Finn solution is a bottle of vodka and a snowbank - less messy and more pleasant - you just go to sleep. Good excuse to visit up North.
That's what my husband's grandfather did.

Hypothermia is not an unpleasant death. First you're cold. Then you're warm. Happens every winter here. Voluntary or no.
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Re: Generic ER:  Any takers?
Old 04-07-2005, 09:46 AM   #38
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Re: Generic ER:  Any takers?

Ugh, now I feel squeamish! How did this thread get so morbid? I wouldn't go Hemingay's route, but I do say no feeding tubes! Let your loved ones go gracefully, people!
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Re: Generic ER: *Any takers?
Old 04-07-2005, 01:18 PM   #39
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Re: Generic ER: *Any takers?

Just got back from the accountant - love the 15% div rate. I actually overpaid slightly on my quarterly payments.

Sun is shining, wind is across the lake from Texas(west).

ER is good. Now that Hemingway cat was pissed - money for meds didn't help and you can't buy time.

Sooo - what is time in ER worth vs prudent risks?

A lot me thinks.

Heh, heh, heh.
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Re: Generic ER:  Any takers?
Old 04-07-2005, 04:40 PM   #40
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Re: Generic ER:  Any takers?

We had some "readjustments" of our benefits at work and received some advisory literature and consulting with our 401K provider, Fidelity. If I recall correctly, the Fidelity literature said that a person of 55 paying for "reasonable" self-insured health insurance could expect a total lifetime health expediture including insurance, in today's dollars, of $270,000. There are some details I've forgotten and some holes missing, but I recall doing some of my own calculations and coming up with a similar figure.
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