Generic ER: Any takers?
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Re: Generic ER: Any takers?
Well, maybe 750,000 to 1,000,000. I am considering the fact that we have no retiree health benefits and we are self insuring for LTC. One of us also has to regularly take a very expensive drug. If healthcare inflation continues its current trends, not sure where it will stop.
EDIT: my take on generic retirement is have no less than two million if you are relatively young, maybe 50 or less. For what it is worth.
Well, maybe 750,000 to 1,000,000. I am considering the fact that we have no retiree health benefits and we are self insuring for LTC. One of us also has to regularly take a very expensive drug. If healthcare inflation continues its current trends, not sure where it will stop.
EDIT: my take on generic retirement is have no less than two million if you are relatively young, maybe 50 or less. For what it is worth.
haha
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Well Martha, you have just proved that there is no caution like an attorney's caution.
My guess is that well before things get this bad, steps will be taken. Almost every business in America would either go bankrupt or cancel its health coverage, not only for retirees but for workers. Even the blood sucking governments may not be able to suck enough to give the sweet deal that our esteemed civil servants are used to.
Remember Stein's Law-"If something can't go on forever, it won't."
Mikey
C
Cut-Throat
Guest
Well, I'm gonna make them cringe even a little more.
My wife and I are extremely healthy, eat well, exercise daily. But we are realistic and know that we are probably going to die by the time we reach 95. - And we also know and live like life won't be any fun after age 85! - That's only about 30 years for me, and I don't plan on spending it stressing over health care costs. - Which is probably harmful to your health as well!
We are planning on buying a catastrophic health plan with a very high deductable. - If this can be had for around $6K per year in today's dollars - fine. If it gets more expensive than this, we'll roll the dice and go without. 8)
The statistics bear this out to some degree. 70% of all medical costs in the U.S. are administered in the last year of life! - In other words - They don't work anyway! - What you are paying for is months of torture ending in death anyway! - So let's get real about this!
- Yes, I know anyone here can pose a scenario where this is really risky. But gurananteeing poverty to pay for medical insurance does not work either! Tell me anything that is guaranteed in life!
My what a morbid turn this thread has taken. Indulge me to unburden myself on it.
A few years ago the Nimitz's suicides sent a big shock wave through the submarine force. (A few cynics "joked" that he was motivated by the thought of having to file more TRICARE claims.) We submariners have somewhat of a reputation for being control freaks and I'm sure that most of us are carrying this article in our "Medical Directives" files.
Chester Jr's approach may work if you have a healthy brain trapped in a failing body, but what about dementia or Alzheimer's? If you tell your spouse today to "Just shoot me when I get to that point", by the time you reach that point you're certainly no longer you. You may still be living but the you you used to be isn't you any more (if you'll tolerate my tortured syntax). The you you'll be will surely strenuously object if the you you used to be attempts to direct any "posthumous suicide" attempts. And good grief, what if your religion involves an afterlife or punishment for suicide?!?
You marriage veterans can imagine how long it took my wife and I to get through that last paragraph of conversation, and the Pope's lifelong example was no help at all. She seems determined to maintain a stash of sleeping pills (with long-term expiration dates) "just in case". I certainly owe her enough to help her open the pill bottle, but I'm not sure that I'm able to fulfill the dubious distinction of administering the coup de grace. While I can't argue with her (especially not when she's armed with all those narcotics AND cooking our meals), I can't forget my grandfather's example.
The grandfather he used to be was gone in deep dementia by age 84, but he lived a hale & hearty 14 additional years in a CCF. I think they were the happiest years of his adult life. Every morning he rediscovered the complete works of Shakespeare by his bedside, although he couldn't focus long enough to get through more than the first 15 pages. Every visit he was thrilled to see us, and its novelty recurred about every 20 minutes. He couldn't remember the conversation from five minutes ago, but early 20th-century American culture was perpetually looping through his brain as an amazing oral history. He wasn't the gruff, laconic businessman of my youth or the grumpy old man of my young adulthood-- he was a cheerful, talkative guy with amazing stories of growing up on a farm, having dinner with the original Mr. Kroger, and helping to build Ohio's electrical infrastructure. Our kid still asks me to tell her the stories so that she has them right.
If I encore that performance 40 or 50 years from now, I hope that my grandkids will enjoy it as much as I did. And I still haven't decided whether or not they should frisk my wife before she visits...
We can guarantee that you're gonna die. We just can't guarantee when or by what method cause.Tell me anything that is guaranteed in life!
A few years ago the Nimitz's suicides sent a big shock wave through the submarine force. (A few cynics "joked" that he was motivated by the thought of having to file more TRICARE claims.) We submariners have somewhat of a reputation for being control freaks and I'm sure that most of us are carrying this article in our "Medical Directives" files.
Chester Jr's approach may work if you have a healthy brain trapped in a failing body, but what about dementia or Alzheimer's? If you tell your spouse today to "Just shoot me when I get to that point", by the time you reach that point you're certainly no longer you. You may still be living but the you you used to be isn't you any more (if you'll tolerate my tortured syntax). The you you'll be will surely strenuously object if the you you used to be attempts to direct any "posthumous suicide" attempts. And good grief, what if your religion involves an afterlife or punishment for suicide?!?
You marriage veterans can imagine how long it took my wife and I to get through that last paragraph of conversation, and the Pope's lifelong example was no help at all. She seems determined to maintain a stash of sleeping pills (with long-term expiration dates) "just in case". I certainly owe her enough to help her open the pill bottle, but I'm not sure that I'm able to fulfill the dubious distinction of administering the coup de grace. While I can't argue with her (especially not when she's armed with all those narcotics AND cooking our meals), I can't forget my grandfather's example.
The grandfather he used to be was gone in deep dementia by age 84, but he lived a hale & hearty 14 additional years in a CCF. I think they were the happiest years of his adult life. Every morning he rediscovered the complete works of Shakespeare by his bedside, although he couldn't focus long enough to get through more than the first 15 pages. Every visit he was thrilled to see us, and its novelty recurred about every 20 minutes. He couldn't remember the conversation from five minutes ago, but early 20th-century American culture was perpetually looping through his brain as an amazing oral history. He wasn't the gruff, laconic businessman of my youth or the grumpy old man of my young adulthood-- he was a cheerful, talkative guy with amazing stories of growing up on a farm, having dinner with the original Mr. Kroger, and helping to build Ohio's electrical infrastructure. Our kid still asks me to tell her the stories so that she has them right.
If I encore that performance 40 or 50 years from now, I hope that my grandkids will enjoy it as much as I did. And I still haven't decided whether or not they should frisk my wife before she visits...
Mr._johngalt
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If I still have sufficient facilities and a functional
trigger finger, I intend to take the Hemingway exit.
If done right, it should be painless. I have seen the alternative. Not interested.
JG
trigger finger, I intend to take the Hemingway exit.
If done right, it should be painless. I have seen the alternative. Not interested.
JG
Re: Generic ER: Any takers?
Steins Law better be right. If I quit today, I figured my next year's medical costs with COBRA and estimated copays and deductible would be $15,700. Inflation for our medical insurance and elsewhere in the market (an insurance agent tells me) has been at 14% a year. If that rate of inflation continued, the yearly costs would double at about every five years. In five years my costs would be $30,225; in ten years, $58,203; and n fifteen years, $112,066.
Martha
Steins Law better be right. If I quit today, I figured my next year's medical costs with COBRA and estimated copays and deductible would be $15,700. Inflation for our medical insurance and elsewhere in the market (an insurance agent tells me) has been at 14% a year. If that rate of inflation continued, the yearly costs would double at about every five years. In five years my costs would be $30,225; in ten years, $58,203; and n fifteen years, $112,066.
Martha
Re: Generic ER: Any takers?
JG, a 12 gauge solution would be messy but it's good to have as a last resort I guess
Cut-Throat has a great point when he says it makes little sense to accept impoverishment from health insurance premiums just to extend what will likely be your final, crappy year of life. Medicaid could do that. If we only knew how things would play out...Nords has a touching example of the other extreme. If it was a choice between poverty, and going bare during the last few years before Medicare I think I would go bare. Although, it might make more sense to do this preemptively during your younger, healthier years (assuming insurance could be obtained later on)
I'd rather live well during my younger, vital years. If you're stuck in a wheel chair and half out of it anyway does poverty make it much worse?
What was that original topic again?
JG, a 12 gauge solution would be messy but it's good to have as a last resort I guess
Cut-Throat has a great point when he says it makes little sense to accept impoverishment from health insurance premiums just to extend what will likely be your final, crappy year of life. Medicaid could do that. If we only knew how things would play out...Nords has a touching example of the other extreme. If it was a choice between poverty, and going bare during the last few years before Medicare I think I would go bare. Although, it might make more sense to do this preemptively during your younger, healthier years (assuming insurance could be obtained later on)
I'd rather live well during my younger, vital years. If you're stuck in a wheel chair and half out of it anyway does poverty make it much worse?
What was that original topic again?
unclemick
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
1993-2005, age 49-soon to be 62, no health insurance of any kind what so ever.
Health insurance costs even back then would have canceled ER - I'd still be working.
Each must examine his own risks/trade-offs. You can't control the future - laying off the bets via insurance for various risks is a personal choice.
J.G. - the Finn solution is a bottle of vodka and a snowbank - less messy and more pleasant - you just go to sleep. Good excuse to visit up North.
Health insurance costs even back then would have canceled ER - I'd still be working.
Each must examine his own risks/trade-offs. You can't control the future - laying off the bets via insurance for various risks is a personal choice.
J.G. - the Finn solution is a bottle of vodka and a snowbank - less messy and more pleasant - you just go to sleep. Good excuse to visit up North.
unclemick
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Just got back from the accountant - love the 15% div rate. I actually overpaid slightly on my quarterly payments.
Sun is shining, wind is across the lake from Texas(west).
ER is good. Now that Hemingway cat was pissed - money for meds didn't help and you can't buy time.
Sooo - what is time in ER worth vs prudent risks?
A lot me thinks.
Heh, heh, heh.
Sun is shining, wind is across the lake from Texas(west).
ER is good. Now that Hemingway cat was pissed - money for meds didn't help and you can't buy time.
Sooo - what is time in ER worth vs prudent risks?
A lot me thinks.
Heh, heh, heh.
Re: Generic ER: Any takers?
We had some "readjustments" of our benefits at work and received some advisory literature and consulting with our 401K provider, Fidelity. If I recall correctly, the Fidelity literature said that a person of 55 paying for "reasonable" self-insured health insurance could expect a total lifetime health expediture including insurance, in today's dollars, of $270,000. There are some details I've forgotten and some holes missing, but I recall doing some of my own calculations and coming up with a similar figure.
We had some "readjustments" of our benefits at work and received some advisory literature and consulting with our 401K provider, Fidelity. If I recall correctly, the Fidelity literature said that a person of 55 paying for "reasonable" self-insured health insurance could expect a total lifetime health expediture including insurance, in today's dollars, of $270,000. There are some details I've forgotten and some holes missing, but I recall doing some of my own calculations and coming up with a similar figure.
haha
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Hate to say it, but I've been there and there is nothing graceful about watching your mother starve to death.
Mikey
I have to agree, people who make these decisions when alert and vibrant have no clue as to the pain and suffering of starving to death. Ever gone hungry (not many in America go really hungry) for 12 hour period? There was a time when we took care of our own, knew they were dying, fed them what they could tolerate and loved them into the afterlife (whatever that is).
That's my exit plan.
Judy
Go in Peace
Mr._johngalt
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Judy.......nice thought. Good post. I have a
different exit plan.
JG
different exit plan.
JG
Same here, but my mother (an RN, no less) was "fed up" with the chemotherapy and the endless surgeries. So she started making her own decisions.
She asked to go home, which was done. The next day she stopped eating & drinking. Dad got on the phone, we got there in time to say goodbye, and 12 hours later it was the best thing to happen in her decade-long cancer battle.
It was two days before their 28th wedding anniversary and three days before my Dad's pre-arranged ER (he was going to spend his time taking care of Mom).
Getting back to the original subject, you should ER as soon you want to (especially if the financial numbers look good). Because you don't know anything about the number of years you have left.
JohnGalt, how old were Hemingway & Hunter S. Thompson when they made their decisions? Hmmm....
Mr._johngalt
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Hemingway was 61. Did it on my oldest daughter's birthday (July 2). Not sure about Hunter Thompson, but
it certainly fit his rep.
BTW, not to dwell on morbid topics, but I have 2 close
friends who are having major health problems. The one
guy is 68, overweight and has been hospitalized twice in the last month. The other guy (mid 60s) is going
in to have part of his intestines removed. Had to
postpone twice so far because he has pneumonia
right now.
Guess what they have in common.............they are
both still working.
JG
it certainly fit his rep.
BTW, not to dwell on morbid topics, but I have 2 close
friends who are having major health problems. The one
guy is 68, overweight and has been hospitalized twice in the last month. The other guy (mid 60s) is going
in to have part of his intestines removed. Had to
postpone twice so far because he has pneumonia
right now.
Guess what they have in common.............they are
both still working.
JG
But really... All this doom and gloom about not having enough. $2 million? That's a very big number.
Bob Brinker said that, on a $1M portfolio, you should be able to generate $20,000 in dividends and interest and take an additional 2-3% - living a $40,000-$50,000 lifestyle, which is NOT BAD. Say what you will about him, this is pretty conservative.
We are living at $34,000 per year, which is not "get outta town" lifestyle, but very comfortable. This is our first year of this, so we'll see, but it feels right.
Bob Brinker said that, on a $1M portfolio, you should be able to generate $20,000 in dividends and interest and take an additional 2-3% - living a $40,000-$50,000 lifestyle, which is NOT BAD. Say what you will about him, this is pretty conservative.
We are living at $34,000 per year, which is not "get outta town" lifestyle, but very comfortable. This is our first year of this, so we'll see, but it feels right.
Mr._johngalt
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We're at about 25K gross. No problem! No debts!
Low COL area. It's not really that hard, even in the USA.
It's mostly your mindset about what is important and what is really necessary.
JG
Low COL area. It's not really that hard, even in the USA.
It's mostly your mindset about what is important and what is really necessary.
JG
unclemick
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
One more time.
Dory36's old,old post - 33% that's my story - is what impelled my original posting to this forum.
Hmmm - sub median might require some rethinking.
Anywise - being a really, really cheap SOB, 12% of our taxable income was my one year best - never to be equaled again.
Going into our 12th year of ER - we're pushing 33% of our 1992 taxable. The current level of 'luxury' makes me extremely uncomfortable. Actual computer, DSL light, Direct tv, hearing noises about a new vehicle, I should get a cell phone - all kinds of bad stuff.
I'll bet the average American doesn't have a clue what his yearly/budget cost of living is - except to quote his paycheck. I know ours is out of control.
Dory36's old,old post - 33% that's my story - is what impelled my original posting to this forum.
Hmmm - sub median might require some rethinking.
Anywise - being a really, really cheap SOB, 12% of our taxable income was my one year best - never to be equaled again.
Going into our 12th year of ER - we're pushing 33% of our 1992 taxable. The current level of 'luxury' makes me extremely uncomfortable. Actual computer, DSL light, Direct tv, hearing noises about a new vehicle, I should get a cell phone - all kinds of bad stuff.
I'll bet the average American doesn't have a clue what his yearly/budget cost of living is - except to quote his paycheck. I know ours is out of control.
