Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Getting Cash Quickly To Executors
Old 12-21-2009, 01:48 PM   #1
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,380
Getting Cash Quickly To Executors

My main question is this- what is a good, secure way to make cash immediately available to one's executors after his death?

It can take an incredible amount of time to get death certificates, especially if the guy died out of state. Meanwhile some bills need to be be paid to conserve the estate.

Would a joint savings account with the executors work? Will they be able to access a joint account without death certificates?

If a will and a listing of assets are kept in the decedents safe deposit box, can joint holders get to it before they have death certificates?

My main estate plan (unless low exemptions to the estate tax are enacted) is beneficiary designations. But I will have assorted personal property like my car etc, and I want to leave some fast cash too so I suppose there will need to be a probate. I can check what WA small estate rules are. I won't have any debt other than what I might happen to have on my transaction credit cards whenever I kick, and I suppose some final medical expenses unless I just die abruptly because some 20 year old took me to bed.

As I mentioned in another thread, these issues have been brought home to me by a brother's passing, and I do not want to leave such a difficult situation for my family members.

Ha
__________________

__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 12-21-2009, 02:02 PM   #2
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: E. Wash
Posts: 1,057
HaHa
When my Mom passed, it worked really well to have me on her checking account as a joint owner. There were absolutely no issues with accessing her funds. She had a nasty habit of forgetting to balance her checking account so I had some money in a linked saving account that was also accessible.

Nwsteve
__________________

__________________
nwsteve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2009, 02:29 PM   #3
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
calmloki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Independence
Posts: 5,459
Same deal - joint owner on my Mom's checking account which made it a total non-event when she died - it was my account to add to, draw down, or close as I saw fit. It was also a taxable non-event. Consult your tax pro, but I treated it as not a part of the estate if I remember - I was a joint owner of an undivided undetermined amount of the checking account before and sole owner after her death. Same on her car, though when I got rid of the car I had to take in the death certificate. Don't know that you can make someone a joint owner without the bank having their signature on hand, so there is some risk if you have any concern about the other joint owner siphoning your assets.
__________________
calmloki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2009, 02:47 PM   #4
Dryer sheet wannabe
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 13
My widowed father kept me completely informed and up-to-date on his finances over the last 15 years or so of his life (including balance sheets as long-term care for my mother drew down savings/CDs). I had copies of pre-paid cremation plans, notes for obituaries for both of them, medical power of attorney and copies of his will. Both our names were on one of his checking accounts and I had a key to his safe deposit box. He also introduced me to the officers of his primary bank, and to his lawyer. Since he lived 500 miles away, all this was invaluable information.

Being executor was certainly not fun, but it was very straightforward, since I had so much information at my fingertips or easily accessible in his desk and file cabinet. Helped that he worked for an insurance co. all his life, was a child of the Depression (no exotic investments, etc.), and kept his very sharp wits about him until he died of pnemonia at age 92.
__________________
cnb46 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2009, 03:05 PM   #5
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,380
Thanks for the responses.

Calmloki- no worries about losses, my two sons are not as well organized as I am, but they are ethically probably higher grade than I am.

Ha
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2009, 03:07 PM   #6
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
calmloki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Independence
Posts: 5,459
Quote:
Originally Posted by haha View Post
Thanks for the responses.

Calmloki- no worries about losses, my two sons are not as well organized as I am, but they are ethically probably higher grade than I am.

Ha
Always good when there are no worries that way and sad when there are.
__________________
calmloki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2009, 03:24 PM   #7
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Moemg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sarasota,fl.
Posts: 10,029
As I remember death certificates were easy to come by . The funeral home asked me how many I wanted and they were there in two days . Always get more than you think you need especially the long form .
__________________
Moemg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2009, 04:05 PM   #8
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Goonie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: North-Central Illinois
Posts: 3,198
Quote:
Originally Posted by nwsteve View Post
HaHa
When my Mom passed, it worked really well to have me on her checking account as a joint owner. There were absolutely no issues with accessing her funds.......
Quote:
Originally Posted by calmloki View Post
Same deal - joint owner on my Mom's checking account which made it a total non-event when she died - it was my account to add to, draw down, or close as I saw fit. It was also a taxable non-event......
I'm in the same boat. I'm listed as joint owner on all of my Mom's accounts....checking, savings, CDs, etc. (both 'brick & mortar', and online) I'm also listed as joint owner of her (our) lock box. I also do my banking with the same banks, so the bank officials and I are well acquainted already. So everything will keep running as smooth as silk after she passes away.

My Grandad had the same arrangement set up with my Dad as joint owner, and everything flowed extremely smoothly at Grandad's passing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moemg View Post
As I remember death certificates were easy to come by . The funeral home asked me how many I wanted and they were there in two days . Always get more than you think you need especially the long form .
Ditto!!! It's better to have too many and not need them, than to have too few and have to wait to get more copies. It's not a major hassle...but during the difficult time of having to deal with a loved one's death, ANY hassle that can be avoided, should be avoided, no matter how small or insignificant it may seem....every little bit helps. Been there, done that.
__________________
Goonie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2009, 04:17 PM   #9
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
happy2bretired's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 1,337
I have some CDs set up as POD (pay on death) with my daughter's name. I think they just become hers after my death. I'm hoping that those CDs can be used for expenses that come up before the estate is settled. I have to be dead before she can get the $$. I probably should check the saving and checking account too.
__________________
happy2bretired is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2009, 04:20 PM   #10
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,862
Perhaps more towards the next generation, giving the executor the ID's and passwords to online accounts would have nearly the same effect as a joint account. Not quite as explicit though...
__________________
Animorph is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2009, 04:35 PM   #11
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
calmloki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Independence
Posts: 5,459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Animorph View Post
Perhaps more towards the next generation, giving the executor the ID's and passwords to online accounts would have nearly the same effect as a joint account. Not quite as explicit though...
Think there might be some IRS issues with that as well as potential fraud concerns - are you thinking the executor could have a payment made to him/her from the deceased's account via the executor signing on as the deceased?
__________________
calmloki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2009, 04:52 PM   #12
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
REWahoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 42,067
My recently expired FIL, also a child of the Depression, approached the problem by burying several thousand dollars worth of cash in the floor of his barn. Thankfully he told all of us, "If anything ever happens to me, be sure you dig around that second post out in the barn."

It worked, but I don't recommend it. The other advice given here offers much better solutions.
__________________
Numbers is hard

When I hit 70, it hit back

Retired in 2005 at age 58, no pension
REWahoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2009, 06:04 PM   #13
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Brat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 5,913
I don't think co-ownership of a checking account is a good idea at all. That is what one of my grandmothers did, one of her daughters was co-owner and the other siblings understood that this was for convenience only. When granny died her lawyer son-in-law told her that the account holdings where hers alone and she kept it all. It took YEARS before that episode was forgiven.

Create a revocable living trust, open a checking account in the trust's name. The trust should authorize the grantor trustee and other named trustees to pay bills of the grantor. Include all the trustees on the signature card. That is what we did with my mother who suffered a long period of incapacity and it worked great. The trust can also own investment accounts (but not IRAs). Don't tell the bank that the grantor has passed until you have obtained a tax ID number for the trust (at which time they will create another account and move the $).

There is software today that will create a basic revocable living trust for a modest fee but frankly I would use a lawyer and have that person also prepare a will, health care power of attorney, and health care advance directive (sometimes called a living will). Other types of power of attorneys are a pita, much easier to put all assets in the revocable living trust.
__________________
Duck bjorn.
Brat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2009, 06:12 PM   #14
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: E. Wash
Posts: 1,057
Quote:
Originally Posted by happy2bretired View Post
I have some CDs set up as POD (pay on death) with my daughter's name. I think they just become hers after my death. I'm hoping that those CDs can be used for expenses that come up before the estate is settled.
The TOD or POD (Transfer/Pay on death) proviso on your financial accounts is great way to avoid probate and make funds available faster than a full probate. If you want immediate access to funds, they typically will not be available until a death certificate can be delivered to the bank/brokerage etc. With my Mom's Vanguard assets the process took about 30 days.
The other advantage of some funds being in a joint account is that if you are disabled (versus deceased) your family can still access some funds to cover those ongoing expenses that need attending to. Of course, a well drawn Power of Attorney can do the same thing but keep in mind it will not cover you in case of death. PoA dissolve at death of person.
Learned this when I tried to make a trade in my Mom's Vanguard account after death and was told I no longer had any rights to make any transactions. Had to wait until death certificates were able and processed by Vanguard.
Nwsteve
__________________
nwsteve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2009, 07:49 PM   #15
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Moemg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sarasota,fl.
Posts: 10,029
Quote:
Originally Posted by REWahoo View Post
My recently expired FIL, also a child of the Depression, approached the problem by burying several thousand dollars worth of cash in the floor of his barn. Thankfully he told all of us, "If anything ever happens to me, be sure you dig around that second post out in the barn."

It worked, but I don't recommend it. The other advice given here offers much better solutions.
One of my friends parents put money in the freezer wrapped and labeled chops . Unfortunately it was not discovered and thrown out with other expired food . He told them after the refrigerator cleaning had been done .
__________________
Moemg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2009, 08:19 PM   #16
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
youbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 9,965
Quote:
Originally Posted by REWahoo View Post
My recently expired FIL, also a child of the Depression, approached the problem by burying several thousand dollars worth of cash in the floor of his barn. Thankfully he told all of us, "If anything ever happens to me, be sure you dig around that second post out in the barn."

It worked, but I don't recommend it. The other advice given here offers much better solutions.
Why not? I have some substantial cash stashed away and DW and son know where it is "just in case." With today's interest rates, I get just about the same interest on that as I do on the cash in my MM acct!

But, for the real money, I need to do some work. If DW and I were to die together, such as in an automobile accident, DS would probably wind up having to foot some bills until insurance policies paid off (about 3 weeks per the agent) or estate matters start to settle. I'm looking at all the suggestions others have made. Once the estate settled, he'd be close to FIRE, so I suppose he'd forgive us for the inconvenience!
__________________
"I wasn't born blue blood. I was born blue-collar." John Wort Hannam
youbet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2009, 08:26 PM   #17
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,862
Quote:
Originally Posted by calmloki View Post
Think there might be some IRS issues with that as well as potential fraud concerns - are you thinking the executor could have a payment made to him/her from the deceased's account via the executor signing on as the deceased?
I'm thinking of paying bills, but possibly paying other expenses. Most of our bills are payed through automatic billpay, for example, and would continue to be paid even if we died. Doesn't seem like any reason the few other bills we have couldn't be paid manually by an executor through the same account.

All the account fine print I've seen (and remember) states that willingly giving someone your account login info implies permission for them to access your account. Certainly it CAN be done. I don't see why the IRS would care as long as estate records were correct for taxes. On the other hand, the executor's name may not be on the account, so the extent of that permission could be in question.
__________________
Animorph is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2009, 08:28 PM   #18
Moderator Emeritus
CuppaJoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: At The Cafe
Posts: 6,866
Quote:
Originally Posted by REWahoo View Post
My recently expired FIL, also a child of the Depression, approached the problem by burying several thousand dollars worth of cash in the floor of his barn....
My great aunt put a significant amount of cash in a candy box, marking a small portion of it with a note indicating it should go to a neighbor. Her five heirs voted to give that amount to the neighbor. For many years, I used a small version of that candy box as a piggy bank. Saw that brand in a movie the other day; it still amuses me.
__________________
CuppaJoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2009, 08:58 PM   #19
Moderator Emeritus
Martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: minnesota
Posts: 13,212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moemg View Post
As I remember death certificates were easy to come by . The funeral home asked me how many I wanted and they were there in two days . Always get more than you think you need especially the long form .
I think it depends on where you are. My husband's uncle died last year and it took almost 3 weeks to get the death certificate.

I second those who suggest a joint account. Keep in mind that the money in the account will not pass by will but go directly to the joint owner; so, if you are trying to keep distributions equal for your heirs, you might have to make some adjustments.

(If you don't want to do the trust Brat mentioned, which would avoid probate issues for everything in the trust).
__________________
.


No more lawyer stuff, no more political stuff, so no more CYA

Martha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2009, 09:24 PM   #20
Dryer sheet wannabe
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 13
My younger brother and I were equal heirs and I was executor. We agreed that the joint checking acct (in Dad's name and mine) would be used to pay outstanding, ongoing expenses until the estate was settled, and then we'd split the remainder. I kept a strict accounting and sent copies to my brother every month or so. Obviously you need to have the same ethical outlook for this to work. Under that agreement, Dad's money paid for a lovely dinner for 14 extended family the evening before his memorial service and a great lobster feast on the harbor in Maine after the service!
__________________

__________________
cnb46 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Where is your cash? tuixiu FIRE and Money 47 09-25-2009 10:24 AM
How many years of cash/cash equilivents do you have now Florida FIRE and Money 70 03-10-2009 04:32 PM
Amazon Prices change so quickly. Why? wolf Other topics 3 11-24-2008 04:31 PM
Helpful tip for Executors W2R Other topics 16 04-16-2008 10:37 PM
cash on cash rate - what should it be DollahBillYall Young Dreamers 20 06-15-2007 07:14 AM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:24 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.