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Old 06-06-2014, 09:41 AM   #41
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Heck, I do not trade much (turnover lower than Wellesley) but like to watch Quicken update of portfolio throughout the day. It is like watching a horse race. The only time I don't is when I am up in the boonies home without Internet, or when I am traveling.
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Old 06-06-2014, 09:51 AM   #42
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Heck, I do not trade much (turnover lower than Wellesley) but like to watch Quicken update of portfolio throughout the day. It is like watching a horse race. The only time I don't is when I am up in the boonies home without Internet, or when I am traveling.
I think once I hit a million in the portfolio, I stopped paying attention. The game was won at that point, and the rest is just numbers. Maybe I'll start paying attention if I cross back below a million.
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Old 06-06-2014, 09:55 AM   #43
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The game is to keep getting more millions, else one can declare victory even at levels far below $1M, if you read blogs of how some people live. And it should be easier and easier, as the first million helps the 2nd one come quicker and so on, right?

More is more merrier!
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Old 06-06-2014, 10:19 AM   #44
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The game is to keep getting more millions, else one can declare victory even at levels far below $1M, if you read blogs of how some people live. And it should be easier and easier, as the first million helps the 2nd one come quicker and so on, right?

More is more merrier!
I noticed that it does seem easier to fall into that trap, where the more you have, the more you want. But I think in my case, that will only work up to a point. Once I get to a point where I'm really comfortable, I'm probably not going to be too concerned with getting more.

As for the second million being easier than the first, I imagine that's true. I've noticed it was that way when it came to $100K thresholds. Here's a table I threw together, showing how long it took to first hit each threshold...

3/5/98: $0
1/21/04: $100K, 71 mos
6/15/05: $200K, 16
10/16/06: $300K, 16
10/31/07: $400K, 12
3/10/10: $500K, 28
1/18/11: $600K, 10
3/30/12: $700K, 14
4/30/13: $800K, 13
12/31/13: $900K, 8

I was at $980K as of last night's close, so hopefully the next $100K threshold will come in at under 8 months!
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Old 06-06-2014, 10:19 AM   #45
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Anyone here ever get weirded out that as a passive investor you get paid for doing nothing?
Well, that IS the idea isn't it?

Then again, the trust fund kids have been doing that all along....I just follow their lead.
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Old 06-06-2014, 10:41 AM   #46
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I noticed that it does seem easier to fall into that trap, where the more you have, the more you want. But I think in my case, that will only work up to a point. Once I get to a point where I'm really comfortable, I'm probably not going to be too concerned with getting more...
I think I have enough when I can buy two business class tickets to Sydney without flinching. Note that I did not say 1st class.

What would that take? I don't really know, but when I am there, perhaps I will know.
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Old 06-06-2014, 11:06 AM   #47
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I think I have enough when I can buy two business class tickets to Sydney without flinching. Note that I did not say 1st class.

What would that take? I don't really know, but when I am there, perhaps I will know.
When you can afford the business tickets, won't that just move the goal posts to the first class tickets, and from there maybe to renting a private jet, to fractional jet ownership, and from there to your own jet, then a bigger and bigger jet, until your rocket ship is competing with Richard Bransoms's?
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Old 06-06-2014, 11:09 AM   #48
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OK, I have an idea.

A business class ticket (PHX-SYD) costs 5-6X more than a coach seat. I can now buy a coach seat with no sweat. To do the same with a business class seat would then require me to have 5X more money.

I will never get there. I remember looking at FIRECalc runs. I will not live long enough.
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Old 06-06-2014, 11:12 AM   #49
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When you can afford the business tickets, won't that just move the goal posts to the first class tickets, and from there maybe to renting a private jet, to fractional jet ownership, and from there to your own jet, then a bigger and bigger jet, until your rocket ship is competing with Richard Bransoms's?
No, I have flown business class and 1st class on Qantas (I did not have to pay), and the difference is not worth the money.

I am a modest guy, and do not wish for a private plane. The reason for business seats is that I love to travel, and can do that quite economically (no fancy hotel, luxurious resorts, etc...). But what keeps me from traveling more is mostly the cramped seat.

PS. Similarly, I do not crave for a fancy sports car (see the other thread about Vette and Porsche), nor a luxury sedan. I am basically a pedestrian, who just likes a better airline seat (even though I am not a big or tall guy).
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Old 06-06-2014, 11:24 AM   #50
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No, I have flown business class and 1st class on Qantas (I did not have to pay), and the difference is not worth the money.

I am a modest guy, and do not wish for a private plane. The reason for business seats is that I love to travel, and can do that quite economically (no fancy hotel, luxurious resorts, etc...). But what keeps me from traveling more is mostly the cramped seat.

PS. Similarly, I do not crave for a fancy sports car (see the other thread about Vette and Porsche), nor a luxury sedan. I am basically a pedestrian, who just likes a better airline seat.
Okay, I can relate. I have my little luxuries I enjoy, too, that other people here would not choose to spend money on.

Have you looked in to the frequent flyer hacks for free air travel and upgrades? That is one of my next projects.
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Old 06-06-2014, 11:30 AM   #51
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My money is working for me because when I earned it and paid taxes on it I didn't spend it. I invested it. Now, I can enjoy it and pay more taxes on it. That's our system, I worked hard and now my family and I can enjoy it. Lucky me and everyone else on this blog that did the same......I have absolutely no guilt about cashing my dividend checks each month.
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Old 06-06-2014, 12:39 PM   #52
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Anyone here ever get weirded out that as a passive investor you get paid for doing nothing?

Just today my stock portfolio went up with several thousand dollars and got a big dividend payment too.

That's more than most 'normal' working people earn in weeks, in some countries even months.

I do realize it can and will go down just as easily, but still. Capitalism is a strange system.
It's a medical condition especially the male of the species but not exclusively.
Took a long time to admit I had the problem.

Not a 12 step program but:

1) full auto since 2006 - VG Target Retirement. I don't manually rebalance but let those trusty computers do it for me.

2) it helps to watch football in season - Geaux Saints!

3) and yes I still have 2 or 3 - a few good stocks. Nobody's perfect.

Don't go to any meetings but lurk over at the Bogleheads Forum several times a week to maintain my passive state of mind.

heh heh heh - A tad tongue in cheek with a dose of the straight skinny.
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Old 06-06-2014, 01:09 PM   #53
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I think I have enough when I can buy two business class tickets to Sydney without flinching. Note that I did not say 1st class.
Hey that's my own test for when I truly have it made (flying business class without worrying about the cost). I don't foresee this happening though.
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Old 06-06-2014, 01:31 PM   #54
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I don't agree. It's what someone's thinking about. That's why we're here!
I didn't mean to imply anything negative. I am pretty silly myself (some of my posts are dead giveaway ). This was/is an interesting thread. Otherwise, I would not have read it, and/or post a response. BTW, we are getting paid by the number of posts we post, right? I am waiting for a check which I am willing to donate to E-R.org .
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Old 06-06-2014, 01:48 PM   #55
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I think I have enough when I can buy two business class tickets to Sydney without flinching. Note that I did not say 1st class.
Let's see, 2 business class seats to Europe from the West Coast will set me back about $10K. I don't know if I could ever spend that kind of money without flinching. But... after flying to Europe in business class for the first time ever last month, I am sold. Now, how to pay for such luxury... Good thing I have not caught the travel bug.
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Old 06-06-2014, 02:32 PM   #56
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Let's see, 2 business class seats to Europe from the West Coast will set me back about $10K. I don't know if I could ever spend that kind of money without flinching. But... after flying to Europe in business class for the first time ever last month, I am sold. Now, how to pay for such luxury... Good thing I have not caught the travel bug.
To come full circle back to "getting paid for doing nothing", I think of flying coach vs. business class like getting paid for doing nothing. I used to earn $30-40/hour while working in exchange for sitting in an uncomfortable seat in meetings for a couple of hours at a time. To make sitting in those meetings more gruesome, my employer occasionally required me to be awake and even attentive.

Now, I can choose to save $4000 by buying a coach ticket instead of a business class ticket, and the airline will pay me $200 per hour (after tax!) for 20 hours or so of sitting in the coach class seat and doing nothing (or reading a book, or snoozing, or watching the in flight movie).

I think I'd have to have a lot more than I have right now to turn down the opportunity to make so much from simply doing nothing! Although I do hate sitting in an airplane.
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Old 06-06-2014, 08:26 PM   #57
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To come full circle back to "getting paid for doing nothing", I think of flying coach vs. business class like getting paid for doing nothing. I used to earn $30-40/hour while working in exchange for sitting in an uncomfortable seat in meetings for a couple of hours at a time. To make sitting in those meetings more gruesome, my employer occasionally required me to be awake and even attentive.

Now, I can choose to save $4000 by buying a coach ticket instead of a business class ticket, and the airline will pay me $200 per hour (after tax!) for 20 hours or so of sitting in the coach class seat and doing nothing (or reading a book, or snoozing, or watching the in flight movie).

I think I'd have to have a lot more than I have right now to turn down the opportunity to make so much from simply doing nothing! Although I do hate sitting in an airplane.
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Old 06-06-2014, 08:33 PM   #58
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OK, I have an idea.

A business class ticket (PHX-SYD) costs 5-6X more than a coach seat. I can now buy a coach seat with no sweat. To do the same with a business class seat would then require me to have 5X more money.

I will never get there. I remember looking at FIRECalc runs. I will not live long enough.
I have been thinking about a trip to Oz. The long flight is definitely a deterrent. It seems to me that a cheaper and more enjoyable solution for one who is ER would be to stop off for a few days in Hawaii.
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Old 06-06-2014, 08:39 PM   #59
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And another thing......

I am not being paid for "doing nothing". My hard earned money is earning an ROI by virtue of its utility to the firms whose shares and debt I own. It's just economics. Nothing to be guilty about.
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Old 06-06-2014, 11:07 PM   #60
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Now, I can choose to save $4000 by buying a coach ticket instead of a business class ticket, and the airline will pay me $200 per hour (after tax!) for 20 hours or so of sitting in the coach class seat and doing nothing (or reading a book, or snoozing, or watching the in flight movie)...
I agree that it is highly seductive to allow myself be tortured, OK not tortured but greatly inconvenienced, to save $200/hr. But I would not imagine that the airline was paying me that money. Else, I should just imagine that I could just stay home and get the airline to pay me the cost of the whole ticket.

Anyway, before I made the earlier post I made a sample price check. A round-trip coach seat to SYD was around $2K, a business seat was $8K, and a 1st class $21K on Qantas. Does anybody really pay for these 1st seats and not get it via upgrade? It's mind boggling how much money truly rich people have.

PS. By the way, on a long flight like that, a business seat allowed me to lean way back and go to sleep through most of the flight, waking up only for meals (3 of them!), and the flight felt so short. I have also flown business class to a Middle East country for work, and the experience was also positive. We have flown to Europe on business class, but as the flight leg was shorter the difference in comfort between coach and business was not as pronounced as the super long flights.
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