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Old 02-18-2010, 08:26 AM   #21
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Am I the only one here who thinks the first option is just plain wrong?
I tend to agree with you.

However, They set up the rules and then people game the rules to their best advantage.

That isn't going to change.
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Old 02-18-2010, 08:59 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Bikerdude View Post
Yes its a guaranteed payoff but someone has to make the payments even after he's broke.
If the heirs made the payment after his money ran out it would not be to many years longer. Life insurance to me looks better than long term care insurance. One is a maybe the other is certain.
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Old 02-18-2010, 09:10 AM   #23
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I'll vote for "wrong".

One way that states are trying to change the rules to make this less desirable is "Long Term Care Partnerships". Basically, if you buy some insurance the state says you can keep some assets when your insurance runs out. It looks like most states have a program. LTC Partnership It's a creative idea.

If your relative hasn't talked to an agent about this, he may not be aware of such plans. I'll bet his state has a website where you can learn about his options.
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Old 02-18-2010, 09:14 AM   #24
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One way that states are trying to change the rules to make this less desirable is "Long Term Care Partnerships". Basically, if you buy some insurance the state says you can keep some assets when your insurance runs out. It looks like most states have a program. LTC Partnership It's a creative idea.
Interesting concept. I would be interested to see the results from the standpoint of how it affects the number of insureds and how it affects the public coffers. Hope it works out, since I tend to like seeing the responsible choices rewarded rather than the irresponsible ones (which we've seen far too much of lately).
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Old 02-18-2010, 09:46 AM   #25
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After giving it a lot of thought. It looks like he should pay for the nursing home with assets and buy life insurance. With the heirs paying the premium when he runs out of money. It is guaranteed and the premium does not change. If he does not use the nursing home the heirs get the assets and the insurance. What are the pros and cons of this? I will check out the LTC Partnership.
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Old 02-18-2010, 01:10 PM   #26
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After giving it a lot of thought. It looks like he should pay for the nursing home with assets and buy life insurance. With the heirs paying the premium when he runs out of money. It is guaranteed and the premium does not change. If he does not use the nursing home the heirs get the assets and the insurance. What are the pros and cons of this? I will check out the LTC Partnership.
He will have to take a physical exam to get the life insurance. He could be denied.
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Old 02-18-2010, 01:14 PM   #27
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Good point and it looks expensive at 74. One company said 11k a year for 500k coverage. He is a little bit overweight but in good health.
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Old 02-19-2010, 01:41 PM   #28
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Since I don't identify with the concept of leaving an estate to heirs, I guess I'm wondering why he doesn't simply do nothing. No insurance, no pre-inheritance. If he (and his heirs) are lucky, he'll live a long, healthy life and then leave a little or a lot to the heirs. If he has to go to a facility, he will self pay until the money runs out and then go on Medicade. No scam, no fuss, no muss. Only real downside is there is a chance the heirs might receive nothing. I'm taking a wild guess that they are just fine with that. I would be (and was with my parents who came out even).

Just my 2 cents worth. YMMV
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Old 02-19-2010, 06:48 PM   #29
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He is not trying to do anything that is illegal it is all within the limits of the law.
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Old 02-19-2010, 06:49 PM   #30
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He is not trying to do anything that is illegal it is all within the limits of the law.
No one is suggesting that it's illegal. But obviously, some folks think it's unethical or immoral.
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Old 02-19-2010, 07:12 PM   #31
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I think this may be the best plan.

I think it is the one I will use down the road.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Koolau View Post
Since I don't identify with the concept of leaving an estate to heirs, I guess I'm wondering why he doesn't simply do nothing. No insurance, no pre-inheritance. If he (and his heirs) are lucky, he'll live a long, healthy life and then leave a little or a lot to the heirs. If he has to go to a facility, he will self pay until the money runs out and then go on Medicade. No scam, no fuss, no muss. Only real downside is there is a chance the heirs might receive nothing. I'm taking a wild guess that they are just fine with that. I would be (and was with my parents who came out even).

Just my 2 cents worth. YMMV
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Old 02-19-2010, 08:53 PM   #32
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Sometime back I read an article on the best LTC you can get on the cheap is to continually book a cruise. And if you are on the boat long enough, you keep getting upgrades. What is the down side to this concept?
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Old 02-19-2010, 09:04 PM   #33
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Sometime back I read an article on the best LTC you can get on the cheap is to continually book a cruise. And if you are on the boat long enough, you keep getting upgrades. What is the down side to this concept?
The U.S. government has given me several six-month cruises and a handful of 90-day cruises, all expenses paid. I don't remember any "upgrades"...

I think I've read the cruise-ship article. There really isn't any downside as long as you stay healthy and are not averse to making 2000 new friends every week and then having to start all over again next week with a new set of friends. If you have significant health problems, though, let alone something like a broken leg, then you're off the ship in the next convenient port.

But IIRC Cunard and one other line had a couple of perpetual passengers. I'd think that it would start to resemble the movie Groundhog Day.

I remember reading another article about a couple who were staying at an inn (in America? Britain?) for something like two decades.

My parents-in-law have met the man known as "The Wandering Jew", a perpetual Elderhostel attendee with a string of (at last count) over eight consecutive years. But that was over five years ago and I don't know how it turned out.
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Old 02-20-2010, 04:18 AM   #34
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The U.S. government has given me several six-month cruises and a handful of 90-day cruises, all expenses paid. I don't remember any "upgrades"...

I think I've read the cruise-ship article. There really isn't any downside as long as you stay healthy and are not averse to making 2000 new friends every week and then having to start all over again next week with a new set of friends. If you have significant health problems, though, let alone something like a broken leg, then you're off the ship in the next convenient port.

But IIRC Cunard and one other line had a couple of perpetual passengers. I'd think that it would start to resemble the movie Groundhog Day.

I remember reading another article about a couple who were staying at an inn (in America? Britain?) for something like two decades.

My parents-in-law have met the man known as "The Wandering Jew", a perpetual Elderhostel attendee with a string of (at last count) over eight consecutive years. But that was over five years ago and I don't know how it turned out.
Part of the duties for AC's, is manning Base Ops and handling Space-A travellers. We used to have what we referred to as "Space-A bums". Retired guys who fly from base to base, live in the transient barracks, and eat in the galley. After a couple of days they fly on to another base, rinse and repeat. I suppose their permanent address was with a relative or friend somewhere. Moreless a jet age variation of the railroad hobo.

Harder to do today with all the base closings.
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Old 02-20-2010, 08:16 AM   #35
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I seem to forget some of what I've researched on LTC insurance as it's been a while. However, I think that certain LTC policies provide expenses for at home care and assisted living. Both seem better options for someone who doesn't need full blown institutional care. Medicare and medicaid are not very generous when it comes to assisted living and at home care. My parents lived in a moderate sized town and the best nursing homes availible accepted medicaid.
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Old 02-20-2010, 08:33 AM   #36
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Virtually all currently sold LTC policies cover home care and assisted living. Sometimes there's a lower daily cap, but you choose that when you buy the policy.
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Old 02-20-2010, 08:47 AM   #37
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It would help if you provided a little more information. What kind and amount of assets, state of health, etc.

Assuming a dependent or spouse is not in the picture and the person is not wealthy (modest means)... I would not recommend giving away a cent until death (part of the estate).

If this person thinks they will need help in the future with day to day living, they might consider LTC insurance (if it is affordable at that age... probably not). If they are experiencing a health problem now.... it is probably to late (insurance companies probably will not issue a policy). Assuming LTC is not a reasonable approach for someone at that age... Use the money to hire help in the home or to get into a better nursing home if the need occurs.

If they give away their money... they give away their options! And for what? So someone else can blow the money?
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Old 02-20-2010, 08:58 AM   #38
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Basically, the guy is admitting that he doesn't have the money to leave to heirs (he needs it for his long term care), but he wants to anyway?

Audrey
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Old 02-20-2010, 11:49 AM   #39
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Gaming the rules may be technically legal, but many people (me included) believe it to be ethically wrong. Regardless of how you feel about that, you should consider that the "game" is risky. Clawback rules can be changed whether the money is still there or not. Deliberately and voluntarily making oneself indigent may get you public assistance for minimal nursing home care, but if any other life event requires money or a little extra expense might improve quality of life you are in trouble. For me, the added worry of skating close to the edge would be a huge factor decreasing quality of life.
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Old 02-20-2010, 12:28 PM   #40
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If I recall correctly, the life insurance plan will not work. My elderly aunt lived in a nursing home for many years all paid for by medicaid. When she passed away, the state required us to pass on any life insurance money over to them due to the fact that it had paid for her expenses for all those years. We gladly did so since the nursing home where she was staying treated her with great dignity and respect the last years of her life.

My mother, now 95 years old, has told me she does not plan to give away her assets to "game" the system since she thinks of it as stealing. She has done it on her own all her life and she isn't going to stop now. If she ever needs nursing home facilities, she plans to go to the place my aunt was at and pay her own way as long as possible. I agree with her decision.
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