Glad I'm not a millennial

[kombat]

Children are a financial liability with a very steep and ever increasing sticker price, also in quality of life. They used to be an asset.

Funny you should mention that. I agree. My wife and I decided long ago not to have kids, and just this past Friday, I made the decision permanent and got "snipped." We're both 40, so more Generation X than Millennials, but I never saw the appeal. Kids look like an expensive, exhausting, thankless endeavour, and for what payoff? A few "Kodak" moments here and there? Societal expectations are changing such that couples like my wife and I are no longer ostracized for our refusal to procreate. I firmly believe it's also strengthened our marriage by removing the aggravating factor of demanding children. We're free to focus on each other and just enjoy being together, just the two of us.

 

[hnzw_rui]

The typical 9/5 employee at my company has received an average annual raise of about 4% over the past 25 years (3% due to generic wage growth or inflation, and 1% due to career growth or merit). I've received an average raise of 6+% during my 25 year career. This is primarily because I work 60 hours/week on a regular basis. This is not a trite claim. It is a reality.

My hard work has put me way ahead - 15 years ahead. I would not be where I am today if I regularly worked 9/5.

Hmm...

25 years * 52 weeks * 60 work hours = 78,000 work hours

40 years * 52 weeks * 40 work hours = 83,200 work hours

Difference: 5,200 work hours (or ~2.5 "work years")

 

[MasterBlaster]

Hmm...

25 years * 52 weeks * 60 work hours = 78,000 work hours

40 years * 52 weeks * 40 work hours = 83,200 work hours

Difference: 5,200 work hours (or ~2.5 "work years")

HNZW:

It's not clear where you stand on the long hours thing...

I just don't buy this run as fast as you can now thing, so that you can rest later. You are only young once.

FWIW, if you include progressive taxation in your example the later case will come out way ahead.

 

[hnzw_rui]

HNZW:

It's not clear where you stand on the long hours thing...

I just don't buy this run as fast as you can now thing, so that you can rest later. You are only young once.

FWIW, if you include progressive taxation in your example the later case will come out way ahead.

That was just an objective comparison.

Personally, unless I'm getting 1.5x compensation for overtime hours (and even then, I often decline), I'm sticking to 40-hr work weeks. Heck, we're continuing to rent an apartment (less than 5 miles from work) and decided not to buy a house 20 miles away (where we could afford to buy) when the housing market was down because I consider the longer commute (in SoCal traffic) unpaid overtime.

 

[Greencheese]

I don't believe they are false promises. In general, employees who dedicate themselves to their jobs/careers receive (significantly) higher compensation than those who don't.

The typical 9/5 employee at my company has received an average annual raise of about 4% over the past 25 years (3% due to generic wage growth or inflation, and 1% due to career growth or merit). I've received an average raise of 6+% during my 25 year career. This is primarily because I work 60 hours/week on a regular basis. This is not a trite claim. It is a reality.

My additional 2% every year may not sound like much but it compounds. It means I now earn about 60% more than the average employee with similar work experience (and my company has a relatively flat salary structure). We have a pension. This means that the average employee must work about 15 more years than me to have a similar annual pension payout. If I retire at 60, they must work until 75. Even ignoring the pension and incorporating other factors such as taxes, the numbers do not change very much.

My hard work has put me way ahead - 15 years ahead. I would not be where I am today if I regularly worked 9/5.

The point is that retirement - let alone early retirement - is enabled by choices. One choice is to work hard and focus on a career. Another choice is to save/LBYM. A third choice is to make common sense investment decisions. This is true for everyone, not just Millennials.

I don't buy the argument that a Millennial (or anyone), in general, "needs" to work until age 75. It is a choice to work 9/5. It is a choice to buy the latest smart phone or the latest toy. It is a choice to invest all savings in a zero-risk bank money market account earning 0.1%. These choices aren't necessarily bad. But they have consequences. It is why some people can retire early, and other people cannot.

Shawn, we're talking about 2 totally different scenarios. My argument is based on a lack of pensions and the ability to job hop while your own experience is one of pensions where job hopping is not a possibility. Loyalty is rewarded in the pensioned world while it's not in the 401k world. Millennials aren't going to be loyal when the benefits of loyalty aren't offered to them.

It seems to be a common theme of people at least knowing someone who has been promised a promotion or big raise in exchange for working more than a typical workweek for months or years on end only to never get the reward or get a reward not reflective of the additional work required. If so many people get apparently screwed constantly, why would I believe my experience would be any different? I'll take my easy meets rating, forgo 50% more work for a 20% higher annual raise, and then hop companies for 15% more compensation once I vest. Sure I'd make a little less today, but I get a far better work life balance and then even more money by refusing to remain loyal to a company that isn't paying what the apparent market rate is for my skill set.

 

[Amethyst]

People, especially women, who desperately want a baby and have struggled with brutal and expensive infertility treatments do not see it that way. The Kodak moments aren't the point for them. Some folks are just wired to want a DNA recipient they can hold and love! Still, different viewpoints are what make the world go 'round...

Amethyst

Kids look like an expensive, exhausting, thankless endeavour, and for what payoff? A few "Kodak" moments here and there?

 

[Lsbcal]

... Still, different viewpoints are what make the world go 'round...

Amethyst

Amen.

Are you a hard worker? GOOD
Are you always working overtime? GOOD
Are you a 9 to 5er? GOOD
Are you a lazy ER person? GOOD
Are you ... ? GOOD

 

[jkern]

I remember thinking back in the early 70s that the younger generation had nothing and previous generations had it made. There were even lyrics by The Who (A young man doesn't have anything these days).

It feels like deja vu all over again.

 

[Big_Hitter]

There were even lyrics by The Who (A young man doesn't have anything these days).

Young Man Blues

 

[W2R]

I remember thinking back in the early 70s that the younger generation had nothing and previous generations had it made. There were even lyrics by The Who (A young man doesn't have anything these days).

It feels like deja vu all over again.

I remember back in the early 70's, telling my late mother bitterly that I would never see one cent of SS because of being a Baby Boom child, and how unfair it was that all my money was going to support her and her generation who already had it made. She said SS would never be abolished and I'd get it too, and we went on and on about it.

OK, Mom, I'm 67 now and despite everything I said, I am getting monthly direct deposits from SS. You were right.

 

[meierlde]

I remember back in the early 70's, telling my late mother bitterly that I would never see one cent of SS because of being a Baby Boom child, and how unfair it was that all my money was going to support her and her generation who already had it made. She said SS would never be abolished and I'd get it too, and we went on and on about it.

OK, Mom, I'm 67 now and despite everything I said, I am getting monthly direct deposits from SS. You were right.

I recall hearing from my mother in the 1late 1960s that she did not expect to get any Social Security but she got it from 1984 for about 20 years. So I expect that one could find folks ever since the first recipient in 1939 who thought they would never get anything from Social Security.

 

[eytonxav]

History has a way of repeating itself; we're great and the younger generation are a bunch of do nothings. That thinking was wrong back then and is wrong now.

 

[Andre1969]

Still, different viewpoints are what make the world go 'round...

Amethyst

I thought that was Fat-Bottomed Girls...

 

[jim584672]

I was on another message board and the Millennials were complaining about reverse mortgages. They are like those narcissistic baby boomers are spending what is ours! Talk about entitlement attitude. Like is is wrong to spend the money you worked for and not give it to them. No wonder everyone is on them for being useless and lazy.

 

[FI by 2024]

No wonder everyone is on them for being useless and lazy.

As a millennial, I really don't understand this thread. Sure, Millennials shouldn't complain about their parents spending their own hard earned money, but I know some baby boomers who had FITS that they were making enough money to keep making their mortgage payments during the Great Recession and "it's not fair that kids these days get to declare bankruptcy and walk away from debt just because they can't get a job." So being bitter about money is not generational.

Amongst my group of friends, aside from the military folks who are looking at a pension, I have a wide swath of friends who are social workers, teachers, airline pilots, regional managers, lawyers, etc. Does that sound like a group of lazy and useless people? Even looking at the least ambitious of them I see people who work hard while at work, but once they leave work it doesn't cross their mind again until their next shift. What's so bad about that?

It's baffling to me that people on this thread appear to be disparaging workers who "only" work 40 hours a week. We aren't talking about leeches on society, we are talking about people who choose to earn less so they can spend their time elsewhere. As seen above, somebody who works 60 hrs a week and retires early works roughly the same number of hours as someone who works 40 hrs a week and retires at a normal age.

I always thought E-R.org was for people who realized there was more to life than working. I didn't realize that meant you could only have a life after finishing your career. We often have treads on here about how family and friends give people a hard time about retiring early and the general consensus seems to be that people should be allowed to live their life the way they want to. So if Millennials choose to work less hours each week but more years, what's the problem? They are going to live longer anyway. Geez.

Sorry for the rant. This struck a nerve.

 

[Sarah in SC]

FI by 2024, don't worry, there are plenty of folks here (Gen X, myself) who think a lot of the millennials we know. Haven't yet succumbed to the "get off my lawn" scenario...yet.

I only work 40 hours a week, sometimes less. No one's counting. I also take LOTS of vacation time, and don't regret it a bit. Nor do I think about work after hours. I worked longer hours in jobs I had in my 20s, and looking back, I don't think that it did me a whole lot of good, honestly. It helped the company, I guess, and I enjoyed working those hours with my work friends, but there wasn't some incredible epiphany that working more than other people garnered me.

I don't have trouble with people who work hard at work, and then leave at the end of the day. No matter what their age.

 

[Big_Hitter]

Sorry for the rant. This struck a nerve.

Wasn't meant to. Sometimes these threads get off on tangents.


The OP was about "having" to work to 75 in order to afford retirement. I haven't checked any of the articles numbers....yet.

 

[Lsbcal]

As a millennial, I really don't understand this thread. ...

On no, they are listing to us!

Please don't emphasize some of the negative comments here. Their are plenty of positive thoughts on millenials. It's probably a mistake to try to characterize any generation too closely. But we all have our biases -- just human nature.

 

[Options]

As a millennial, I really don't understand this thread. Sure, Millennials shouldn't complain about their parents spending their own hard earned money, but I know some baby boomers who had FITS that they were making enough money to keep making their mortgage payments during the Great Recession and "it's not fair that kids these days get to declare bankruptcy and walk away from debt just because they can't get a job." So being bitter about money is not generational.

Amongst my group of friends, aside from the military folks who are looking at a pension, I have a wide swath of friends who are social workers, teachers, airline pilots, regional managers, lawyers, etc. Does that sound like a group of lazy and useless people? Even looking at the least ambitious of them I see people who work hard while at work, but once they leave work it doesn't cross their mind again until their next shift. What's so bad about that?

It's baffling to me that people on this thread appear to be disparaging workers who "only" work 40 hours a week. We aren't talking about leeches on society, we are talking about people who choose to earn less so they can spend their time elsewhere. As seen above, somebody who works 60 hrs a week and retires early works roughly the same number of hours as someone who works 40 hrs a week and retires at a normal age.

I always thought E-R.org was for people who realized there was more to life than working. I didn't realize that meant you could only have a life after finishing your career. We often have treads on here about how family and friends give people a hard time about retiring early and the general consensus seems to be that people should be allowed to live their life the way they want to. So if Millennials choose to work less hours each week but more years, what's the problem? They are going to live longer anyway. Geez.

Sorry for the rant. This struck a nerve.

Emphasis added

+1
Personally, I wouldn't listen to a bunch of old farts denigrating "the younger generation". As a boomer, I've been embarrassed by the absurdities of my own generation for about half my life . I worked with and supervised a variety of millennials before retiring and they were just like anyone else (although personally I preferred working with them because of their energy and commitment).

Ragging on younger generations is a centuries old practice:

15 Historical Complaints About Young People Ruining Everything | Mental Floss

 

[kgtest]

well let me tell you about MY generation... uphill, both directions, through a blizzard, in the dark...that's how we got to and from school.



Nowadays, the Denali's and mini-vans are parked at the bus-stop 1/2 a block away from their home, heat blaring, gas guzzling away.

 

[Shawn]

60% more money for 60 hours a week or 50% more hours at work than the average person. After taxes, I would suggest that you lost somewhat. Your after tax rate per hour worked is less than the average Joe.

This is not correct. The higher taxes are compensated by the discretionary aspect of the additional income over base needs. Financially, it is far better to work 60 hours a week and have extra income than to work 40 hours a week and struggle to get by. Most of my extra income has been invested at considerable growth. In essence, the 50% more work has produced over 100% more income.

But more so, I can retire 15 years earlier than the average Joe. I have complete freedom and flexibility in what I do.

Yes you received more money and recognition but you gave up your life.

What is it with people on the internet. You don't know me. Why would you think I gave up my life?

Some of this may sound arrogant and self-serving but I don't care (it is what it is) ...

Over the last several years I've gone sky diving, scuba diving (certified), rock climbing, spelunking, mountaineering, sea and white-water kayaking, cross country and downhill skiing. I've taken a glacier traverse class. I've learned how to make igloo's.

I'm physically active and run and/or bicycle every day. Last week I rode 130 miles and ran 25. I also did about 20 miles of walks. I go hiking and backpacking. In the recent past I regularly participated in the sport of orienteering and trail races (running).

I'm 56. My resting pulse is in the low to mid-30's (it's 31 right now). My blood pressure averages around 95/65. Last August my cholesterol was 118, triglycerides 63, glucose 83. (Take that you out-of-shape smart-phone obsessed Millennials who only work 9/5.)

While I hate the overwhelming hassles associated with my job, for work, I've been to Turkey, Norway (multiple times), Sweden, Japan, Germany, the Netherlands, the UK. I've been on television 10 times and the radio twice (twice live, twice international). I've met two cabinet secretary's and a foreign ambassador.

I don't volunteer very much, although I often foster feral kittens/cats. But because I've worked hard my entire life and have extra money, I was able to give about $20K last year to either charity or people in need. I donated an additional $15K in appreciated mutual fund shares to my donor advised fund for future charitable contributions (this dropped me out of AMT). I'm in a financial position to provide significant care to my mother, step mother, and others in my life should they ever need it. For myself, I don't need to worry about issues such as long term care.

While I work a lot, I take full advantage of my available free time. Overall, I'm satisfied with how things have turned out.

So I don't understand. How exactly have I given up my life?

The point is, everyone makes choices. These choices have consequences. Working 9/5 has different consequences than working 60 hours a week. Such choices and consequences are neither good nor bad. But I object when people complain about having to work until they are 75 when a different set of choices could of have had them retiring at 55.

 

[Calico]

well let me tell you about MY generation... uphill, both directions, through a blizzard, in the dark...that's how we got to and from school.



Nowadays, the Denali's and mini-vans are parked at the bus-stop 1/2 a block away from their home, heat blaring, gas guzzling away.

And don't forget - we were barefoot, too!

 

[Amethyst]

Nor to a bunch of younger ones, ragging on Oldpeople. Until you have walked in older people's shoes, you have no right to make assumptions about them. And there is no way to walk in older people's shoes (metaphorically speaking - not their actual shoes!) other than by growing old yourself.

(Note: I hate the way some people use fecal terminology - farts, poops, etc. - to refer to older people).

Emphasis added

+1
Personally, I wouldn't listen to a bunch of old farts denigrating "the younger generation".

 

[eytonxav]

(Note: I hate the way some people use fecal terminology - farts, poops, etc. - to refer to older people).

LOL, I always considered the term old fart as a badge of honor.

 

[imoldernu]

Silent Generation Hope?

10 more years...