Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Global Debt Clock
Old 09-27-2009, 08:22 AM   #1
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
donheff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 8,638
Global Debt Clock

The Economist has a Global debt comparator that shows the total and per capita debt for countries around the world. I was surprised that much of the European community has higher per capita debt than we do - some much higher. The comparator only forecasts through 2011 so it doesn't catch the long term impact of the current situation but I suspect Europe may be in a similar boat to ours. Not sure of the implications other than that we are not alone and there is a lot of debt out there. I wish the comparator went back 40 years or so.
__________________

__________________
Every man is, or hopes to be, an Idler. -- Samuel Johnson
donheff is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 09-27-2009, 09:25 AM   #2
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Gone4Good's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,381
Not only does Europe (and Japan) have a higher debt burden then we do, their populations are growing more slowly and aging more quickly than ours - the result of more stringent immigration restrictions. These demographic trends make their debt burden all the more challenging.
__________________

__________________
Gone4Good is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2009, 11:06 AM   #3
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
freebird5825's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: East Nowhere, 43N Latitude, NY
Posts: 9,017
I have to ask the obvious question ...if all of the developed countries have all this monstrous debt, who do they owe it to ? Their own citizens ? Each other?
Is this the classic circular debt situation...i.e. Country A owes $ to Country B, who owes $ to Country C and Country D, while Country D owes $ to Country A.
__________________
"All our dreams can come true, if we have the courage to pursue them." - Walt Disney
freebird5825 is offline   Reply With Quote
Total US Debt.
Old 09-27-2009, 02:35 PM   #4
Dryer sheet wannabe
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 23
Total US Debt.

Let us take a look at debt from another angle - total US debt - personal, corporate, municipal, state, and federal ... just take a look at the Grandfather Economic report series found here: Grandfather Debt Summary Table Report by MWHodges

No wonder Pete Peterson started his foundation, found here at
Peter G. Peterson Foundation

Peterson's group lists total US debt at 56.4 trillion (3x US GDP) while Hodges puts it at 56.9. However, since they use different methodologies, they should meet to reconcile their figures.
__________________
retiredtuna1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2009, 02:39 PM   #5
Moderator
ziggy29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 15,612
There are many ways to look at the U.S. debt (and global debt, for that matter). It seems to me that one can draw almost any preconceived conclusions one desires by choosing how to report debt and whether to compare it to many other nations (particularly in Europe).

Anyway, one of the reasons I'm not convinced the dollar will collapse relative to the Euro or the yen is that the Eurozone and Japan have many of the same debt, deficit, entitlement and demographic problems facing the U.S. -- and worse per capita in some places and in some ways. It's possible at some point confidence in all fiat currencies will go down, and while the dollar might not fall relative to the Euro or the U.K. pound, they may all gradually lose purchasing power together.
__________________
"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)

RIP to Reemy, my avatar dog (2003 - 9/16/2017)
ziggy29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Total debt
Old 09-27-2009, 03:13 PM   #6
Dryer sheet wannabe
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 23
Total debt

I don't quite entirely agree with you Ziggy. In the short run, the dollar will stay high compared to the Euro because of our deficit spending. But, as the Economist map shows, we are approximately at the same level as Europe. Western / Central Europe continue to remain mostly anti-immigration and they, like Japan, are aging at a much faster rate than we are. In the longer term - 10-20 - years out, the dollar will regain strength because other countries will be 'dying out' (possibly depopulating) sooner than we do.

Are there any Christians in this group? We should be doing a re-think in terms of how to do church / ministry outreach to us older folks - for that, um, er, Ultimate Retirement.
__________________
retiredtuna1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2009, 03:27 PM   #7
Moderator
ziggy29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 15,612
Quote:
Originally Posted by retiredtuna1 View Post
I don't quite entirely agree with you Ziggy. In the short run, the dollar will stay high compared to the Euro because of our deficit spending. But, as the Economist map shows, we are approximately at the same level as Europe. Western / Central Europe continue to remain mostly anti-immigration and they, like Japan, are aging at a much faster rate than we are. In the longer term - 10-20 - years out, the dollar will regain strength because other countries will be 'dying out' (possibly depopulating) sooner than we do.
Maybe I wasn't quite clear. I agree that the dollar may still rise against the Euro and the yen for a while as those places have currency problems that are, in many ways, worse than the dollar. And they never had the "reserve currency" status to fall back on.

But I still think all fiat currencies have the potential to fall relative to hard assets and natural resources over time -- just that the dollar may not fall as much against things like gold, real estate and oil as other currencies will.

No large democracy has done anything to convince me that any of their fiat currencies will hold up to hard assets in the decades to come.
__________________
"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)

RIP to Reemy, my avatar dog (2003 - 9/16/2017)
ziggy29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2009, 03:58 PM   #8
Dryer sheet wannabe
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 23
You were clear, Ziggy. I just didn't read your entry a second time as I did just now. However, if all fiat currencies don't hold up against hard assets... then I think what you mean is that there will be massive (global) inflation. On the other hand, if all currencies deflate at the same time, they will maintain their parity with each other.
__________________

__________________
retiredtuna1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
If I still had the FIRE Clock... ziggy29 FIRE and Money 15 05-20-2009 03:35 PM
Retiree Clock Midpack Other topics 9 10-19-2008 11:25 AM
Campaign will raise awareness on Global Warming & Global Health Wags Other topics 13 04-03-2008 07:33 AM
PC Clock Wrong TromboneAl Other topics 11 04-02-2008 09:08 PM
Clock repair LeatherneckPA Life after FIRE 11 01-15-2007 01:23 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:28 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.