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Re: GM Bankruptcy fears
Old 12-09-2005, 06:33 AM   #21
 
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Re: GM Bankruptcy fears

I am overweight in GMAC and in Ford Credit, I would however prefer that they sell off the whole thing rather than piece meal, letting the banks strip it of the best paper.

US Car Makers cannot compete with those in countries where the State assumes the Health Care costs, it is not possible.

Remove the several thosands of $'s that are added to each car by Social Benefits, these automatically knock the US Car Maker out of the game.

China, the Government owns most of the companies, they can make up whatever cost they like, you think Enron had Creative Accounting, you ain't seen nothing yet.

GM make a fine car, reliable, fuel efficient, cheap to maintain.

Chapter 11 is about breaking the Power of the Union.
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Re: GM Bankruptcy fears
Old 12-09-2005, 01:40 PM   #22
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Re: GM Bankruptcy fears

Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard
Chapter 11 is about breaking the Power of the Union.
You are probably right. However, wouldn't matter much to the creditors and stockholders in the event of a bankruptcy.

Although, I would expect that senior obligations would come out pretty well. Like you say, absent these benefit costs GE is an ok company. Not great, but OK.

Ha
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Re: GM Bankruptcy fears
Old 12-09-2005, 06:46 PM   #23
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Re: GM Bankruptcy fears

Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard
I am overweight in GMAC and in Ford Credit, I would however prefer that they sell off the whole thing rather than piece meal, letting the banks strip it of the best paper.

US Car Makers cannot compete with those in countries where the State assumes the Health Care costs, it is not possible.

Remove the several thosands of $'s that are added to each car by Social Benefits, these automatically knock the US Car Maker out of the game.

China, the Government owns most of the companies, they can make up whatever cost they like, you think Enron had Creative Accounting, you ain't seen nothing yet.

GM make a fine car, reliable, fuel efficient, cheap to maintain.

Chapter 11 is about breaking the Power of the Union.
Warning, Dumb question ahead - is GM or any other US company for that matter mandated or otherwise required in any way to provide Health Care and/or Social Benefits?
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Re: GM Bankruptcy fears
Old 12-09-2005, 06:56 PM   #24
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Re: GM Bankruptcy fears

Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard
I am overweight in GMAC and in Ford Credit, I would however prefer that they sell off the whole thing rather than piece meal, letting the banks strip it of the best paper.
This is a good point. Here is another angle. GMAC just sold
off 20 billion $ in auto loans
to Scotia Bank??. If they do end up
selling GMAC as a sep. entity, this "breaking off" of pieces
makes the total "nut" smaller for a potential
buyer. OTOH. GMAC is so big
that maybe this theory doesn't work.

JG
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Re: GM Bankruptcy fears
Old 12-09-2005, 07:11 PM   #25
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Re: GM Bankruptcy fears

Quote:
Originally Posted by Honkie
Warning, Dumb question ahead - is GM or any other US company for that matter mandated or otherwise required in any way to provide Health Care and/or Social Benefits?
Their requirements are established by their union contracts.* Federal law requires that they pay into the pension guaranty fund to provide insurance for the contractoral pensions.
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Re: GM Bankruptcy fears
Old 12-11-2005, 10:31 AM   #26
 
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Re: GM Bankruptcy fears

Health Benefits etc are part of a contract and the reality is that the huge salaries and benefits that are part of these contracts are making US Car Manafacturers Non Competitive.

How can you rationalise a High School drop out with no skill sets making $100,000 a year, Pensioned off at 55 with a pension almost equal to their salary, and payed if there is down time?

I was looking seriously to buy a new Cadillac, but it costs more than my second house, forget it, I'l drive my 15 year old Volvo(bought because at the time it was the only car with passenger air bags).

GM cannot denude the value in GMAC, that is Law Suit country, and don't forget for every car plant closed, a new condo or mall site becomes available.
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Re: GM Bankruptcy fears
Old 12-11-2005, 10:40 AM   #27
 
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Re: GM Bankruptcy fears

honkie, there is no such thing as a Dumb Question.
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Re: GM Bankruptcy fears
Old 12-11-2005, 11:32 AM   #28
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Re: GM Bankruptcy fears

Assume for a moment that large US employers and public agencies stop providing health insurance.* What then for health care in the US?* Maybe one of the reasons why we aren't addressing health care as a society is that the uninsured are poor and powerless.* Once it becomes a middle and mid-upper income problem it will be a major political issue.

Read NYT "The Next Retirement Timebom": http://tinyurl.com/a87b9

IMHO one of the reasons we don't have a national insurance plan of some type is that a large % of the middle class has it through their employer and we can't draw the line on 'enough'.* The latter is a contributing factor to Medicare expenses.* One of us kept a parent in ICU until a sibbling arrived to be present at her passing.* I can understand that, but should it have been an insured expense?
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Re: GM Bankruptcy fears
Old 12-11-2005, 10:11 PM   #29
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Re: GM Bankruptcy fears

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brat


Read NYT "The Next Retirement Timebom": http://tinyurl.com/a87b9

Brat,
Thanks for putting in the link to this article -- we will see a lot more of this issue -- the huge unfunded cost of state and local govt employees' lifetime medical coverage-- in the years ahead. Will be very interesting to see how this plays out.-- the article figures there is a 1 Trillion dollar unfunded liability already, and it is growing.

In the same way some car buyers find they need to 'buy foreign' in order to dodge the high cost of medical benefits in every Detroit car sold, we may find that we have to 'Live Foreign' in order to dodge the high cost of medical benefits in local property taxes.

Lance, Billy -- I hope you guys are thinking about buying property out there in Thailand or Ecuador while it's still relatively cheap, because you could have a lot of company in about 20 years... 8)

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Re: GM Bankruptcy fears
Old 12-12-2005, 11:10 PM   #30
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Re: GM Bankruptcy fears

Here is a current article with an inside look at GM's situation:

http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news...d=aFjM26AM_LfE

It would appear that quite a bit is hanging on their ability to spin-off GMAC but so far not many takers.

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Re: GM Bankruptcy fears
Old 12-13-2005, 05:34 AM   #31
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Re: GM Bankruptcy fears

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cashin' out
Here is a current article with an inside look at GM's situation:

http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news...d=aFjM26AM_LfE

It would appear that quite a bit is hanging on their ability to spin-off GMAC but so far not many takers.

Well, here is what I think. The best and quickest way to give GM some
breathing room is to spin off GMAC, which I hope happens. I also
believe this is quite likely, even though some large egos are involved
(on both sides). Selling GMAC is undoubtedly painful to contemplate,
esp. since they are so successful on a stand-alone basis. However,
I'll bet there are potential buyers aplenty. It would be a huge
(career making?) deal for someone (egos again). It's more than
just the numbers involved. Egos get involved ay all levels in
business, one of the reasons that things sometimes seem so
random and unpredictable.

JG
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Re: GM Bankruptcy fears
Old 12-13-2005, 08:41 AM   #32
 
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Re: GM Bankruptcy fears

I sure hope they spin off GMAC, I hold a lot of their Bonds, bought when they were yielding over 12%.(Ford too).
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