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Old 02-16-2009, 05:19 PM   #61
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I do think that the UAW is stronger than it should be.
However, strikes may be expensive, not being able to compete puts you oiut of business.
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Old 02-16-2009, 07:25 PM   #62
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Watching the news tonight George Snufalufagus said that the money to GM and Chrysler was a done deal and that they will be supported until they can restructure.
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Old 02-16-2009, 08:06 PM   #63
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Watching the news tonight George Snufalufagus said that the money to GM and Chrysler was a done deal and that they will be supported until they can restructure.
Goodness gracious, who ever would have guessed this
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Old 02-16-2009, 08:18 PM   #64
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I do think that the UAW is stronger than it should be.
However, strikes may be expensive, not being able to compete puts you oiut of business.
Strikes can put you out of business too. Car manufacturing is a capital intensive business. All that capital sitting around doing nothing will suck you dry very, very fast.

The UAW sucked them dry just as surely, but stretched it out over decades.

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Old 02-16-2009, 10:17 PM   #65
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Very true, but I still believe the Auto companies could have endured more pain than they did to get an equitable deal.
For example, did they ever offer a profit sharing structure to employees instead? This would have cut some of their expenses automatically as their profit went up in smoke. It would also give the workers reason to help the company, as opposed to just helping the union.
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Old 02-16-2009, 10:50 PM   #66
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Tying benefits to profits certainly would have helped. I don't know enough about the history of the negotiations to know if that was attempted or not.

I suspect the Unions would fight it. They want to give their members benefits they can enumerate "hey we got you that X% raise for the next 5 years", or whatever. They don't want to give a bunch of ifs, and, buts and formulas tied to numbers that many would be suspicious of.

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Old 02-16-2009, 11:25 PM   #67
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Biggest problem and what I think needs to change with the UAW is the fact that they have a monopoly. One union controls labor for GM, Ford and Chrysler (domestically). Giving them far too much leverage making it that much more difficult for management to get a deal that is sustainable.
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Old 02-17-2009, 11:43 AM   #68
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Tying benefits to profits certainly would have helped. I don't know enough about the history of the negotiations to know if that was attempted or not.

I suspect the Unions would fight it. They want to give their members benefits they can enumerate "hey we got you that X% raise for the next 5 years", or whatever. They don't want to give a bunch of ifs, and, buts and formulas tied to numbers that many would be suspicious of.

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Performance-based pay never works among union members, it is only used in non-union jobs. I worked a manufacturing job while going to college. I got a piecemeal bonus if I made so many over target during my shift. I wanted that bonus so I worked hard. A week later my boss called me in, and said the fulltime workers were complaining about me because I was "working too fast" thereby "making others look bad". I didn't last long there. We made door panels for Ford Taurus's........
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Old 02-17-2009, 01:11 PM   #69
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That is exactly the kind of thing that led to the companies falling apart.
If you ask me, the smart thing would have been to fire the complainers and hold FD up as a good example
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Old 02-17-2009, 01:25 PM   #70
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That is exactly the kind of thing that led to the companies falling apart.
If you ask me, the smart thing would have been to fire the complainers and hold FD up as a good example

Judging from the number of post FD has made during w*rk, I think he may have learned something from the complainers.
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Old 02-17-2009, 01:29 PM   #71
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I would guess that FD works on commission so his time is his own. On the other hand there are posters here that work for the fed that spend my tax money posting here.
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Old 02-17-2009, 01:38 PM   #72
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I would guess that FD works on commission so his time is his own. On the other hand there are posters here that work for the fed that spend my tax money posting here.
Well, some of those who aren't on commissions are salaried employees, not hourly time-clock punchers.

At least in theory, salaried employees are paid based on producing a certain level of production for their employer -- not based on how many hours their butts are in their desk chair at the office.

Of course, that's only theory. If a salaried worker can do something in 10 hours that his/her colleagues can do in 50, it's not like that person will be allowed a 10-hour work week. Which is where many employers of "salaried labor" try to have it both ways: if you can't get your job done in 40 hours, you're expected to work overtime to get it done. But if you can get it done in 20, they expect you to put in at least 40 anyway, perhaps to bail out your slacking co-workers.

But I digress. Back to your regularly scheduled discussion...
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