GM under?

[Art G]

What inferior working conditions? I have been in several auto assembly plants and they were well above average working conditions for manufacturing in my experience. And I thought auto workers also had relatively high wages along with their outstanding benefits.

I sympathize with the challenges that the auto workers and others face, but my pension was frozen and retiree health care disappeared in 1994 (while I was still working, and still am) after I had 17 years of service in. The same has happened to millions of others, so I don't understand why auto workers should be protected? I understand restricting the pain on current retirees, but not active workers. Just asking...

Conditions have gotten much better since the 60's and 70's, but consider doing the same job, non-stop every day.
My father-in-law talks to himself all day now.

 

[Art G]

Every 6 months?? Man, you are the "hero of depreciation"..........

Very rarely have I been upside down in a car. It's all in buying them right, and not chasing the "trend car".
I've made money in a few cars after 6 months.

 

[ziggy29]

The ONLY pensions that are truly "guaranteed" are govt ones, because they are funded by taxes.

Vallejo?

 

[al_bundy]

GM is in a heck of a dilemma. The most financially prudent thing they could do is to hire a gang of hitmen and take out a bunch of 70 year olds.

[FONT=Arial,Bold][FONT=Arial,Bold]Company[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Bold]
[FONT=Arial,Bold]Retirees[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Bold]per 100 Workers:[/FONT]​

Toyota

[FONT=Arial,Bold]2[/FONT]​

Honda: ​

​

[FONT=Arial,Bold]5[/FONT]​

Nissan: ​

​

[FONT=Arial,Bold]11[/FONT][/FONT]​

​

[FONT=Arial,Bold]

[FONT=Arial,Bold]Chrysler 153[/FONT]

Ford: [/FONT]​

​

[FONT=Arial,Bold]

[FONT=Arial,Bold]163[/FONT]

GM: ​

[FONT=Arial,Bold]320[/FONT]​

[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Bold]So, for years, employees have been promised that if they put up with inferior working conditions, one day they'd retire and receive a pension, health care and benefits for life. [/FONT]
Now people feel that for the good of the economy, they'll just take these benefits away from these retirees. I guess the viewpoint depends upon whether you're a retiree or shareholder.​

more like 50 year olds

when a GM retiree hits 65 he or she is Medicare's problem

 

[73ss454]

Very rarely have I been upside down in a car. It's all in buying them right, and not chasing the "trend car".
I've made money in a few cars after 6 months.

Congrat's Art, your one of the only people in the world that buys a car, trades it in after 6 months and makes money.

You are one smart guy.

In 35 years in the car biz I've never seen that happen.

 

[REWahoo]

Never underestimate the capabilities of a shrewd investor...on an internet board.

 

[Midpack]

Conditions have gotten much better since the 60's and 70's, but consider doing the same job, non-stop every day.
My father-in-law talks to himself all day now.

You have been fortunate in life, I'm afraid a majority of people all over the industrialized world are "doing the same job, non-stop every day..."

 

[FinanceDude]

Congrat's Art, your one of the only people in the world that buys a car, trades it in after 6 months and makes money.

You are one smart guy.

In 35 years in the car biz I've never seen that happen.

Maybe he buys them from his friend "Guido", after "Guido" shakes down a few businessmen.........

 

[Marquette]

You have been fortunate in life, I'm afraid a majority of people all over the industrialized world are "doing the same job, non-stop every day..."

Thursday I was a standup comic. Today I was a photographer. I tool Friday off to play superhero.

 

[Art G]

Congrat's Art, your one of the only people in the world that buys a car, trades it in after 6 months and makes money.

You are one smart guy.

In 35 years in the car biz I've never seen that happen.

Thank you. The key is in buying them after the first year's depreciation. Consulting closely with a black book, having excellent credit (usually on interest only notes), and having bought the last car right so I have some equity in it as well. I was in the car biz long enough to know how to buy and sell cars.
I made nice money on my Porche 911, a Corvette, a T-Bird, a Toyota Camry, a Cadillac Allante, and quite a few collectors cars I've had (probably forgot a few).

 

[Art G]

You have been fortunate in life, I'm afraid a majority of people all over the industrialized world are "doing the same job, non-stop every day..."

There's a difference between "having" the same job and "doing" the same job. Imagine doing nothing but screwing in widgets for 10 hours per day, for 30 years and tell me it can't drive you a bit batty.

 

[Art G]

Never underestimate the capabilities of a shrewd investor...on an internet board.

Ya' know, I never mind explaining how to do it, as long as I'm not getting smart aleck responses. I find that people ask questions on here, then when they don't understand the answer they mock. Pretty tough to teach closed minded people.

 

[retire@40]

There's a difference between "having" the same job and "doing" the same job. Imagine doing nothing but screwing in widgets for 10 hours per day, for 30 years and tell me it can't drive you a bit batty.

We all choose our own destinies.

If I were on track of doing the same job for 30 years, maybe in year 5 or 10 I would look into trading my job making widgets with the other guy stuck at his job for 30 years painting them.

 

[Art G]

We all choose our own destinies.

If I were on track of doing the same job for 30 years, maybe in year 5 or 10 I would look into trading my job making widgets with the other guy stuck at his job for 30 years painting them.

I don't believe they had that option when working the line. I'm not saying he was cheated. However, people so cavalierly discuss taking away the benefits these people earned. These people earned their benefits. It's a shame to think they might lose them while they're still alive.

 

[FinanceDude]

Thank you. The key is in buying them after the first year's depreciation. Consulting closely with a black book, having excellent credit (usually on interest only notes), and having bought the last car right so I have some equity in it as well. I was in the car biz long enough to know how to buy and sell cars.
I made nice money on my Porche 911, a Corvette, a T-Bird, a Toyota Camry, a Cadillac Allante, and quite a few collectors cars I've had (probably forgot a few).

And NEVER a loss?? You should STILL be doing that was a professional............

I made some money over the years, but got my butt handed to me a few times buying and selling too.........

 

[73ss454]

Now here's a test for ya Art. Go out and by a new normal American car and try to sell it in 6 months and make money. You'll be my hero.

 

[Art G]

And NEVER a loss?? You should STILL be doing that was a professional............

I made some money over the years, but got my butt handed to me a few times buying and selling too.........

Did I say somewhere that I never had a loss? I've had some. I had a Lincoln Aviator that it took getting into a wreck and totalling it, or else I'd have never gotten out of the thing. I had another Porche I kept too long and the market went sour. I got burnt on my last Caddy CTS.
I only mentioned how I've traded and how it's possible to do it. Never did I say it works everytime.

 

[Midpack]

There's a difference between "having" the same job and "doing" the same job. Imagine doing nothing but screwing in widgets for 10 hours per day, for 30 years and tell me it can't drive you a bit batty.

Been involved with manufacturing for over 30 years and I meant "doing..." There are a millions of people "doing" the same narrow task for years on end.

 

[Art G]

Now here's a test for ya Art. Go out and by a new normal American car and try to sell it in 6 months and make money. You'll be my hero.

Well, considering by buying new and having my father in law qualify for Option 1 plan it helps. However, I'm not looking right now so I don't know if there are any that would qualify, but perhaps with a ZR1 it might be possible. Consider this, if you'd have bought a Buick Grand National GNX (as a friend of mine did) you could have made a bundle in resale.
At one time, to buy a Ferrari, you had to put up a $10k deposit to guarantee you didn't flip the car for profit. And I'll bet you can do it with a Prius right now as well. The Fiero had its day for Pontiac.
I'm not in the market so haven't checked, however, I'm also not in need of your hero worship. However, for the right kind of bet, I'm thinking I could do it.

 

[73ss454]

When some of the hot cars came out over the years very few of them made the original owner any money. Maybe 20 years down the road such at the GNX you mentioned but most were big time losers.

Back in the day cars such at the super birds and hemi cars sat in dealers lots forever. The dealers had to almost give them away to get them off the lot.

Fast forward 20 or 30 years and these cars are worth big money. But to buy a car and keep it 6 months and make money is no where near the norm.

You had said in one of your prior posts that it had something to do with having good credit. I don't see that at all. Also you said that you were in a good equity postion on a few and I don't see what that has to do with making money on a car you've kept 6 months.

 

[Art G]

{sigh} Good credit means that I could get an interest only note with no collateral at a low rate (try doing this with poor credit). Therefore little out of pocket expense. If you note, I didn't mention a Superbird or Superbee. I mentioned the GNX which was selling for a $20k premium right off the floor. Fiero's were selling for up to $1500 premium. Even Harley Davidson's have sold used for more than new ones! As have Mercedes. I've also owned a Cadillac Allante that had a guaranteed value tied to the Mercedes 560SL which I was able to keep for two years and still make money on.
Seriously, if I really have to do a breakdown to make you happy I could, OR you could just take me at my word.
AGAIN, nowhere did I say it was the norm. I said you could do it if you knew what you were doing. I believe you were the one calling me a liar.

 

[73ss454]

Not calling you a liar Art. If your buying a new car the chances of making money on it 6 months later is nearly impossible.

I worked at a Buick Pontiac dealer back in the 80's, Fieros were being sold at MSRP and a GNX at a larger premium. None of these cars would be sold at a profit 6 months later by the original owner. Could it happen, yeah, but I've never heard of it.

Now if you talking about 20 years later, OK, you could make a buck. But remember if you took the 6K you spent 25 years ago and invested it you might not have made as much as you think.

Bottom line is buying a "new" car and selling it 6 months later for a profit, well, let's just say I've never heard of such a thing.

 

[Art G]

Well at least you've gone from saying you've never heard of it in 35 years to saying it's "nearly" impossible.
Again, I'm not suggesting buying new cars to flip, as an occupation. I'm just saying I've done it a few times. More often my goal was to merely get a new car without putting any money down and not burying myself. Of course, nowhere in my original post did I suggest doing it with a new car. I used to buy and sell old corvettes and mustangs and called them my savings accounts I could drive.
BTW, at one time the Jeep Grand Wagoneer was bringing over sticker and were sold in limited supply as "The Cowboy Cadillac" thus holding their value. And Ford has always kept a shortage on their V-8 Mustang GT's intentionally to hold up their value.

 

[Texas Proud]

The serial number will tell you when the car was built and on which line. They can track it back to the employee if need be.
Those old Cadillac Fleetwood Broughams were some of the most profitable cars of all time.
When buying a new car, avoid the ones with more than 30 miles on them. More than likely, they found a problem and had to re-route them to be reworked.

Or they let ME test drive the thing.... I have put 20 miles on a test drive before... with 0 on when I got in...

 

[Texas Proud]

more like 50 year olds

when a GM retiree hits 65 he or she is Medicare's problem

Not IIRC.... they still pay for the Medigap etc and the other out of pocket...

But then I could be terribly wrong on this...