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Re: Going bare on insurance...
Old 09-18-2006, 08:31 AM   #21
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Re: Going bare on insurance...

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Originally Posted by dmpi
I don't understand this. If you have no insurance, you get hurt & the medical cost is greater than your assets. Who is going to pay the diffrence?
Depends. If you have an emergency, and are treated in the hospital, hospitals can be very aggressive in their collection techniques because they usually use outside collection agencies. You will lose your non-exempt assets. If you file bankruptcy, that will be it and the hospitals and providers will eat the difference.

The real problem is what happens if you get a terrible illness. After spending your assets you might not get healthcare. It is going to be tough to buy insurance when you are ill and you will face at least a 6 month pre-existing condition exclusion period, even if you go on a risk pool.

Get a policy while you are young and they are relatively cheap. I would get the umbrella too if you have non-exempt assets.

If you have non-exempt assets, lack of good insurance is not going to protect you from lawsuits.





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Re: Going bare on insurance...
Old 09-18-2006, 08:58 AM   #22
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Re: Going bare on insurance...

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Originally Posted by 2B
You aren't going bare.* You are keeping the biggies -- home and auto.* Medical is one you should reconsider but you can save a bundle going with a high deductible.* If your health is good, you can get a $5000 deductible for very little -- depends on age -- plus you get lower costs at the doctors and pharmacies because most have some sort of PPO feature.* That's a biggie you should reconsider.* The umbrella is only a factor if you have significant assets to protect.
Check out the high deductible. Another good reason to do so is the negotiated rates between healthcare providers and insurers. I went to chiropractor recently and at first they said treatments were "covered" and my cost was $66 until deductible was met. Once they figured out my coverage did not include chiropractic, the cost per treatment was $85, so there was a 20% discount just for being insured even though they did not pay a dime. In looking at other doctor bills, the "negotiated rates" or "reasonable and customary" are often 40% less than the going fee.
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Re: Going bare on insurance...
Old 09-18-2006, 09:12 AM   #23
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Re: Going bare on insurance...

Since our friend, who was training for a marathon and in excellent health was diagnosed and subsequently died of pancreatic cancer died at age 40, I could not imagine going without health insurance. He could barely stand the pain with the very costly drugs covered by his insurance company. he would have left his young children with nothing if they had to pay themselves.
Then last year we had our own bout with Malignant Melanoma in my house. Probably from too much sun when DH was a child, before sun block when a tan was considered healthy. Several surgeries later, he goes to the MD every three months for agressive skin checks. I would not want the thousands of dollars in bills we incurred with a very early detection. At any time another spot could pop up and back we'll go for surgery and this time probably chemo. and he had no control over what happened when he was a youngster fourty years ago.

I agree with the high deductible- going bare is risky. Getting cancer or some crazy health problem can happen to anyone. It is a non discriminating illness.
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Re: Going bare on insurance...
Old 09-18-2006, 11:14 AM   #24
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Re: Going bare on insurance...

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If you have no insurance, you get hurt & the medical cost is greater than your assets. Who is going to pay the diffrence?
It could also happen that you need some procedure but can't afford it, so you don't get the procedure, and you die.
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Re: Going bare on insurance...
Old 09-18-2006, 11:29 AM   #25
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Re: Going bare on insurance...

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Originally Posted by TromboneAl
It could also happen that you need some procedure but can't afford it, so you don't get the procedure, and you die.
I think that happens regularly. We have lots of patients who noticed a lump somewhere, had no money, put it off until their bodies are riddled with cancer. Then they come in even though they have no money because they are so sick.

Their care, not to mention their lives, is much costlier and less successful.
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Re: Going bare on insurance...
Old 09-18-2006, 02:26 PM   #26
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Re: Going bare on insurance...

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Originally Posted by SecondCor521
I am seriously considering going mostly bare on insurance.
Think about what UncleMick is telling you, read some of the threads by OAP & Sheryl, read John Galt's thoughts on the subject, and then consider whether you want to be caught without medical insurance in any of these people's situations.

I know OAP & Sheryl are thanking their lucky stars that they kept their insurance.

You can rebuild a home, buy another car, and even work through a liability lawsuit.* But if you don't have health insurance then you can't recover from a cancerous mole or from getting smacked by a hit&run driver.
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Re: Going bare on insurance...
Old 09-18-2006, 03:30 PM   #27
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Re: Going bare on insurance...

To put it bluntly - hindsight is 20-20.

Get Heatlh Insurance!

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Re: Going bare on insurance...
Old 09-18-2006, 04:15 PM   #28
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Re: Going bare on insurance...

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But I am considering skipping everything else, in particular umbrella, long-term care, dental, and...gulp...health insurance.
As an old Navy chief once said to me as we both watched a jet pilot take off into a thunderstorm...

"That takes GOnads!"
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Re: Going bare on insurance...
Old 09-18-2006, 07:03 PM   #29
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Re: Going bare on insurance...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2B
If your health is good, you can get a $5000 deductible for very little
Not available in every state. If you're my neighbor here in NJ, you are out of luck on the high-deductible, low-cost policy. We only have full-cost, full-frills, everyone-is-welcome policies.
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Re: Going bare on insurance...
Old 09-19-2006, 06:05 AM   #30
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Re: Going bare on insurance...

Has anyone heard of simple care? Apparently they have a web site simplecare.com. These docs apparently "cater" to the working uninsured..the patients pay cash at the time of service(discounted fees).
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Re: Going bare on insurance...
Old 09-19-2006, 07:54 AM   #31
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Re: Going bare on insurance...

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We only have full-cost, full-frills, everyone-is-welcome policies.
Add MA to this list.
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Re: Going bare on insurance...
Old 09-19-2006, 12:51 PM   #32
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Re: Going bare on insurance...

This health insurance lottery is not one to play. I know a 25 yo woman who was just diagnosed with cervical cancer. She is in school and has insurance, but who would predict something like this?

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Re: Going bare on insurance...
Old 09-19-2006, 01:04 PM   #33
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Re: Going bare on insurance...

Popping back in.

I think the more I think about it the more I am leaning toward an HSA w/ a high-deductible plan approach. I actually don't have a probem with what I would call traditional insurance, where catastrophic risk is spread over a large population, but I do disagree with an expensive first-dollar approach.

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Re: Going bare on insurance...
Old 09-19-2006, 04:01 PM   #34
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Re: Going bare on insurance...

I'm travelling right now through the South... Tennesee and Georgia. Going through some places with real poverty. What amazes me is the number of people walking with limps. It reminds me of Vietnam where there were lots of people missing limbs from landmines, but this is the USA for chrissake. Out in California where I live people just seem much healthier.

I wonder how many of those people with limps would be okay if they had gotten decent healthcare for their injuries. Makes me glad I'm covered... I pay less than $100/month for BC HSA high deductible coverage for myself (age mid 30's).
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Re: Going bare on insurance...
Old 09-19-2006, 04:21 PM   #35
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Re: Going bare on insurance...

Quote:
Originally Posted by free4now
What amazes me is the number of people walking with limps.
Would any of these people by chance be grossly overweight?
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Re: Going bare on insurance...
Old 09-19-2006, 04:27 PM   #36
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Re: Going bare on insurance...

I may not have the full picture but I have a propostion.
Remember that there is a good time for evrything.
Example Car Insurance:
Drop the protection when your car reaches ~7years
Buy a new car when the maintenance exceeds a new payment.

For health insurance it would be:
Drop insurance when you are sure you won't have a kid anymore. Hop back in when statisticly your health may degrade. Or maybe even only after you are diagnosed with anything. In the meantime invest the premiums.

Most people compute health insurance cost yearly as if something may happen during the year. This is bad assumption the probability to need to make payments exceeding the deductible is probably once in 20 years (I have no data to back this up).

- if you are involved in some high risk activities that's another thing.... Get covered.
- if you opt out of health insurance make sure you do get MEDICAL COVERAGE ON YOUR CAR INSURANCE. If you have health insurance make sure you DON'T.

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Re: Going bare on insurance...
Old 09-19-2006, 04:50 PM   #37
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Re: Going bare on insurance...

I for one am very happy to have medical insurance; especially this year.*

DW hurt her back 2 years ago.* Pain was isolated to several pinched nerves in her lower spine.* The cause was an unstable spine caused by shrinking disks and a prior surgery for a herniated disk.* The solution was a spinal fusion to prevent the bones from compressing the nerves to her legs.* (More painful than you can imagine).

Surgery was done in early June.*
Surgery created additional pain which lead to a visit to the ER and hospital admission and a stay for 6 days for tests and pain management.

A second surgery was indicated after much testing and it was discovered that a screw used to secure rods to the spine was pressing on the major nerve to her leg.*

She continues to recover but is not able to work yet.*

Hospital costs to date: $260,000
Surgeon charges:* * * * * $25,000
Drugs:* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * $5000
Physical Therapy* * * * * * * *$2500
Medical Appliances* * * * * * $5000
Tests* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *$15000


Go bare if you dare but do so with caution.
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Re: Going bare on insurance...
Old 09-19-2006, 04:55 PM   #38
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Re: Going bare on insurance...

my spouse has more than recoverd the medical insurance premiums we have paid over the years (which is, of course, not a good thing) ... is currently taking a bunch of drugs, one of which costs $750 per month, totaling about $2k per month. i am happy to pay the premium for the insurance which covers this.
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Re: Going bare on insurance...
Old 09-19-2006, 07:29 PM   #39
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Re: Going bare on insurance...

Most of us RE types can afford a high deductible but the "big one" is beyond our resources. The medical coverage is a necessity.
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Re: Going bare on insurance...
Old 09-19-2006, 11:34 PM   #40
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Re: Going bare on insurance...

Checking with my local Blue Cross today, it's something like $66 per month for a HDHP with a $5000 deductible. That's a pretty reasonable cost I think.

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