Going bare on insurance...

SecondCor521 · 09-17-2006, 05:03 PM

I am seriously considering going mostly bare on insurance.

I would keep auto coverage because (a) it is required by law in my state, (b) a wreck in my car is the most likely way I'm going to incur liability. I would also keep homeowner's insurance when required by my mortgage lender. And I would keep life insurance as needed until my nest egg is bigger and my kids are older.

But I am considering skipping everything else, in particular umbrella, long-term care, dental, and...gulp...health insurance.

Advantages:

1. *On average*, I am statistically likely to come out ahead because I don't have to pay the overhead/profit of the insurance companies.
2. No need to stress out about what insurance will pay, whether my doctor is covered, waiting for reimbursement, what decision to make at open-enrollment, etc.
3. I could (in theory) be investing my premiums into long term investments and make money on the time difference between when I would have paid my premiums and when I would have to pay for medical care.
4. I would be more likely to take care of myself because I wouldn't have a safety net.
5. If things worked out, I could perhaps persuade my doctors and hospitals to accept a cash paid right now no hassle discount. I know some doctors are offering this anyway.

Disadvantages:

1. I may "lose the bet" and lose everything I own.
2. I may lose my life or shorten it if I avoid seeking preemptive medical care when necessary.
3. I wouldn't get the bargaining power of the group insurance companies.

OK, go ahead and talk me out of it / decry my extreme idiocy / congratulate me on my out-of-box thinking and brave frontiersmanship. I'm listening.

2Cor521

lets-retire · 09-17-2006, 05:11 PM

From what I've seen, routine medical exams and procedures are not too expensive. It is only when you get into the exotic or long term things that the bills start to add up.

2B · 09-17-2006, 05:15 PM

You aren't going bare. You are keeping the biggies -- home and auto. Medical is one you should reconsider but you can save a bundle going with a high deductible. If your health is good, you can get a $5000 deductible for very little -- depends on age -- plus you get lower costs at the doctors and pharmacies because most have some sort of PPO feature. That's a biggie you should reconsider. The umbrella is only a factor if you have significant assets to protect.

unclemick · 09-17-2006, 05:17 PM

Wonderful - I did exactly that for 12 years - no insurance and ER or insurance and back to work to afford it.

Now - a couple of pesky details. I was single so if my porfolio was totally wiped out including the house - our financial affairs were arranged *so she(da SO) could survive on her portfolio - and her heath insurance came with her small union pension. My live at home Mom's affairs were also set up so me and my portfolio could go proof.

It's a big gamble - I had no trouble sleeping at night - BUT I don't recommend it for anyone else either.

BTW - insurance on a fish camp over water is a non-starter.

heh heh heh heh - remember the Clint Eastwood movie -'do ya feel lucky----' eh?

BTW - the house did go poof - Katrina. And after 12 years of cheap bastardhood - my portfolio could afford 5k deduct BC/BS in MO and a new house with mortgage. I don't think the 90's market will repeat for a while.

**REWahoo** · 09-17-2006, 05:24 PM

What 2B said...

At age 37 you should be able to get a high deductible ($5k) health insurance policy relatively cheap. Don't leave home (or stay home) without it.

Tadpole · 09-17-2006, 05:32 PM

I agree with REWahoo!

You are not safe from a bad driver just because you are healthy. Make sure you have coverage for the big ticket scenario.

Zathras · 09-17-2006, 05:52 PM

I concur with the others regarding medical. Keep it but up the deductable to max. Much cheaper and you are covered in case you end up getting hit hard.

Personally I can't imagine what that would be like as I am medically behind the eight ball with maintainance payments. Would be nice to be average or above average in that department

The umbrella policies are usually fairly cheap and will cover large liabilities so I am curious about the thinking on that one.

Tadpole · 09-17-2006, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zathras

The umbrella policies are usually fairly cheap and will cover large liabilities so I am curious about the thinking on that one.

I admit to being quite ignorant of umbrella policies too. I have been wondering what keeps someone from sueing for what their lawyer knows the umbrella is worth plus what you are worth too. Don't they usually try to go for it all?

brewer12345 · 09-17-2006, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tadpole

I admit to being quite ignorant of umbrella policies too. I have been wondering what keeps someone from sueing for what their lawyer knows the umbrella is worth plus what you are worth too. Don't they usually try to go for it all?

Heh, with an umbrella you cover the limit of 95+% of all possible suits against you. Plus you can bet that if the insurance company is on the hook for millions, they will put their best lawyers on the case.

haha · 09-17-2006, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tadpole

I admit to being quite ignorant of umbrella policies too. I have been wondering what keeps someone from sueing for what their lawyer knows the umbrella is worth plus what you are worth too. Don't they usually try to go for it all?

Trying and getting are 2 different things. Umbrella seems worth the cost to me.

Ha

brewer12345 · 09-17-2006, 06:15 PM

SC, I think you can reasonably skip dental, all kinds of property coverage and LTC. I think you're nuts to skip liability/umbrella or at least high deductible health insurance.

Dawg54 · 09-17-2006, 06:42 PM

I even went with a 10k ded BCBS plan. Has drug benefits, office copays and wellness benefits that skips the deductible. If I have some kind of surgery, yes I will have a pretty stiff bill to pay but I can sleep well knowing I have catastrophic protection.

Outtahere · 09-17-2006, 06:50 PM

Dh and I just went thru getting an umbrella policy, I couldn't explain it to his satisfaction so while we were in the ins co office he asked, he looked at me and said I guess we need this. It was more expensive than I had hoped but we also found out that for the past 9 years we could have been saving 5% for having multiple cars, they didn't know we were married because I never changed my name.

maddythebeagle · 09-17-2006, 08:42 PM

Interesting juxtaposition for the folks that quote the number of unisured as a reason for universal health care....the number of people that view health insurance as wealth protection....and some folks willing to fly by the seat of their pants so that they can spend on other stuff.....Now I can kinda understand why some states are looking at mandatory health insurance.....I guess I dont really have a point.....I still want health insurance not connected to work

dmpi · 09-17-2006, 08:58 PM

I don't understand this.*

If you have no insurance, you get hurt & the medical cost is greater than your assets. Who is going to pay the diffrence?

mickj · 09-17-2006, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmpi

I don't understand this.

If you have no insurance, you get hurt & the medical cost is greater than your assets. Who is going to pay the diffrence?

We will

Tadpole · 09-18-2006, 03:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maddy the Turbo Beagle

Interesting juxtaposition for the folks that quote the number of unisured as a reason for universal health care....the number of people that view health insurance as wealth protection....and some folks willing to fly by the seat of their pants so that they can spend on other stuff.....Now I can kinda understand why some states are looking at mandatory health insurance.....I guess I dont really have a point.....I still want health insurance not connected to work

You have a point or rather the picture. The debate has taken a wrong turn, I think. While people measure their best option on insurance, no one seems concerned that the costs cannot contiune at rates so far above inflation forever. So is there a better delivery system that maximizes the use of resources, minimizes the use of unnecessary resources, and introduces cost/benefit and risk into the system? What precisely contributes to run away inflation in this area? So far, most of what I have heard is technology. This seems to imply that technology is an add-on to the care that was previously provided. Is that efficient. Has some of the care that was previously given become obsolete? I am not a medical person but the medical profession would do the country a favor if they poured some of the lobbing energy into defining the problem.

runnerr · 09-18-2006, 07:31 AM

Tadpole, just who do you think benefits from the higher costs…could it be the medical profession? In addition, if the system is a money making proposition for them why would they change it. It will take congress to change the system and I do not see that happening

Ed_The_Gypsy · 09-18-2006, 07:45 AM

Check out Healthcare Savings Accounts. See if/what is available to you in your state.

This gives you high deductable health insurance (gotta have it!) and an associated account to use to invest your savings. I think it is a great deal.

Use the 'search' function on this board for HSAs. They have come up before and there is some great information here.

tryan · 09-18-2006, 08:26 AM

Dropped dental ins when I left mega-corp. No regrets (even after a couple cavities for the kids). Dental is not life/FIRE threatening. So it goes.

Won't renew a 10 year term life policy when it expires in a few years. NW should/will allow us to be self insured. No threat to FIRE ... so it goes.

But without health insurance you're a cat-scan away from bankrupcy. So it stays. Not the "gamble" I want for myself, much less the DW and kids.

On a side note, I was rejected for a umbrella policy 3 times ... too many rentals.

Quote:

I have been wondering what keeps someone from sueing for what their lawyer knows the umbrella is worth plus what you are worth too. Don't they usually try to go for it all?

Having been sued a few times, most lawyers will take the easy $$ (insurance settlement). Much harder to take a primary residence or garnish wages. They are looking for the best return on thier time, too.

09-17-2006, 05:03 PM	#1
SecondCor521 Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Boise Posts: 1,333	Going bare on insurance... I am seriously considering going mostly bare on insurance. I would keep auto coverage because (a) it is required by law in my state, (b) a wreck in my car is the most likely way I'm going to incur liability. I would also keep homeowner's insurance when required by my mortgage lender. And I would keep life insurance as needed until my nest egg is bigger and my kids are older. But I am considering skipping everything else, in particular umbrella, long-term care, dental, and...gulp...health insurance. Advantages: 1. On average, I am statistically likely to come out ahead because I don't have to pay the overhead/profit of the insurance companies. 2. No need to stress out about what insurance will pay, whether my doctor is covered, waiting for reimbursement, what decision to make at open-enrollment, etc. 3. I could (in theory) be investing my premiums into long term investments and make money on the time difference between when I would have paid my premiums and when I would have to pay for medical care. 4. I would be more likely to take care of myself because I wouldn't have a safety net. 5. If things worked out, I could perhaps persuade my doctors and hospitals to accept a cash paid right now no hassle discount. I know some doctors are offering this anyway. Disadvantages: 1. I may "lose the bet" and lose everything I own. 2. I may lose my life or shorten it if I avoid seeking preemptive medical care when necessary. 3. I wouldn't get the bargaining power of the group insurance companies. OK, go ahead and talk me out of it / decry my extreme idiocy / congratulate me on my out-of-box thinking and brave frontiersmanship. I'm listening. 2Cor521 __________________ "At times the world can seem an unfriendly and sinister place, but believe us when we say there is much more good in it than bad. All you have to do is look hard enough, and what might seem to be a series of unfortunate events, may in fact be the first steps of a journey." Violet Baudelaire.

09-17-2006, 05:11 PM	#2
lets-retire Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,304	Re: Going bare on insurance... From what I've seen, routine medical exams and procedures are not too expensive. It is only when you get into the exotic or long term things that the bills start to add up. __________________ You don't want to work. You want to live like a king, but the big bad world don't owe you a thing. Get over it--The Eagles

09-17-2006, 05:15 PM	#3
2B Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Houston Posts: 2,273	Re: Going bare on insurance... You aren't going bare. You are keeping the biggies -- home and auto. Medical is one you should reconsider but you can save a bundle going with a high deductible. If your health is good, you can get a $5000 deductible for very little -- depends on age -- plus you get lower costs at the doctors and pharmacies because most have some sort of PPO feature. That's a biggie you should reconsider. The umbrella is only a factor if you have significant assets to protect. __________________ The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane -- Marcus Aurelius

09-17-2006, 05:17 PM	#4
unclemick Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ... Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: north of Kansas City Posts: 5,560	Re: Going bare on insurance... Wonderful - I did exactly that for 12 years - no insurance and ER or insurance and back to work to afford it. Now - a couple of pesky details. I was single so if my porfolio was totally wiped out including the house - our financial affairs were arranged *so she(da SO) could survive on her portfolio - and her heath insurance came with her small union pension. My live at home Mom's affairs were also set up so me and my portfolio could go proof. It's a big gamble - I had no trouble sleeping at night - BUT I don't recommend it for anyone else either. BTW - insurance on a fish camp over water is a non-starter. heh heh heh heh - remember the Clint Eastwood movie -'do ya feel lucky----' eh? BTW - the house did go poof - Katrina. And after 12 years of cheap bastardhood - my portfolio could afford 5k deduct BC/BS in MO and a new house with mortgage. I don't think the 90's market will repeat for a while.

09-17-2006, 05:24 PM	#5
REWahoo Administrator Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Texas Hill Country Posts: 11,637	Re: Going bare on insurance... What 2B said... At age 37 you should be able to get a high deductible ($5k) health insurance policy relatively cheap. Don't leave home (or stay home) without it. __________________ [Closed for renovation]

09-17-2006, 05:32 PM	#6
Tadpole Recycles dryer sheets Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 340	Re: Going bare on insurance... I agree with REWahoo! You are not safe from a bad driver just because you are healthy. Make sure you have coverage for the big ticket scenario.

09-17-2006, 05:52 PM	#7
Zathras Full time employment: Posting here. Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 625	Re: Going bare on insurance... I concur with the others regarding medical. Keep it but up the deductable to max. Much cheaper and you are covered in case you end up getting hit hard. Personally I can't imagine what that would be like as I am medically behind the eight ball with maintainance payments. Would be nice to be average or above average in that department The umbrella policies are usually fairly cheap and will cover large liabilities so I am curious about the thinking on that one. __________________ "We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children. (Ancient Indian Proverb)"

09-17-2006, 06:15 PM	#11
brewer12345 Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ... Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 9,251	Re: Going bare on insurance... SC, I think you can reasonably skip dental, all kinds of property coverage and LTC. I think you're nuts to skip liability/umbrella or at least high deductible health insurance. __________________ “When you realize that you are one of the rare few who observe moral principles in their relationships with others, there is a temptation to sink into amorality, not out of conviction or pleasure but simply to avoid further pain, because there is no greater suffering than being an angel in hell, whereas a devil feels at home wherever he goes.” – Martin Page, How I Became Stupid

09-17-2006, 06:42 PM	#12
Dawg54 Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Mississippi Posts: 3,228	Re: Going bare on insurance... I even went with a 10k ded BCBS plan. Has drug benefits, office copays and wellness benefits that skips the deductible. If I have some kind of surgery, yes I will have a pretty stiff bill to pay but I can sleep well knowing I have catastrophic protection. __________________ The born loser.

09-17-2006, 06:50 PM	#13
Outtahere Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,677	Re: Going bare on insurance... Dh and I just went thru getting an umbrella policy, I couldn't explain it to his satisfaction so while we were in the ins co office he asked, he looked at me and said I guess we need this. It was more expensive than I had hoped but we also found out that for the past 9 years we could have been saving 5% for having multiple cars, they didn't know we were married because I never changed my name. __________________ Dogs aren't our whole lives, but they make our lives whole. - Roger Caras

09-17-2006, 08:42 PM	#14
maddythebeagle Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 2,440	Re: Going bare on insurance... Interesting juxtaposition for the folks that quote the number of unisured as a reason for universal health care....the number of people that view health insurance as wealth protection....and some folks willing to fly by the seat of their pants so that they can spend on other stuff.....Now I can kinda understand why some states are looking at mandatory health insurance.....I guess I dont really have a point.....I still want health insurance not connected to work __________________ - Hurry! to the cliffs of insanity!

09-17-2006, 08:58 PM	#15
dmpi Recycles dryer sheets Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 367	Re: Going bare on insurance... I don't understand this.* If you have no insurance, you get hurt & the medical cost is greater than your assets. Who is going to pay the diffrence?

09-18-2006, 07:31 AM	#18
runnerr Recycles dryer sheets Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 113	Re: Going bare on insurance... Tadpole, just who do you think benefits from the higher costs…could it be the medical profession? In addition, if the system is a money making proposition for them why would they change it. It will take congress to change the system and I do not see that happening

09-18-2006, 07:45 AM	#19
Ed_The_Gypsy Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,872	Re: Going bare on insurance... Check out Healthcare Savings Accounts. See if/what is available to you in your state. This gives you high deductable health insurance (gotta have it!) and an associated account to use to invest your savings. I think it is a great deal. Use the 'search' function on this board for HSAs. They have come up before and there is some great information here. __________________ "Ain't got no money for no old-age pension; I'm so broke, I can't pay attention!"