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Re: Going it alone
Old 08-23-2004, 06:20 PM   #21
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Re: Going it alone

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At 60, if you are still intact, go for 5%.
8)
Gimme a little more as to what you mean here. I've read quite a bit about the 4% Rule, so I assume you're saying that I could take out 5% and then do a 2nd job or parttime down the road if things aren't looking good?
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Re: Going it alone
Old 08-24-2004, 07:24 AM   #22
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Re: Going it alone

I think 5% comment was for EngrGal.

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Re: Going it alone
Old 08-25-2004, 10:27 PM   #23
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Re: Going it alone

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I'm curious: how many of you saved up the bulk of your pre-retirement monies while living alone without a spouse or "significant other"?
Interesting question. In SPITE of not being alone... In my case I "saved" my retirement from contanination via ex at a point just about 9 years in. At the time it cost me about 30K in "donated" equity to keep my retirement intact. That seemed like an obscene amount of cash to give up for a far future benefit. Now that I'm within 2 years of ER the numbers tell me it was the best investment I ever made, as that 30K is going to be conservatively my first year's return on my investment, not including index based inflation adjustments and fully paid medical. A small price to pay for freedom...

Upon finding my Lobster some years ago we as a team came to realization that ER was not only a desireable, but also a viable option, and have planned for FIRE ever since on a 7 year plan starting at age 43, the soonest we could have reasonablely began to seriously entertain the possibility.
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Re: Going it alone
Old 08-28-2004, 09:32 PM   #24
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Re: Going it alone

I'm a 27 year old who is well on his way to reaching ER by 50 (if not hopefully sooner...although the biggest wildcard is future kids).

My "problem", however, is that I'm actively looking for that special someone to enjoy life with for the next 60+ years. And, as we all know, the average person under 60 (male or female) in today's age seems to enjoy living it up without much care for the future.

Not only is the subject of a Prenuptial Agreement a touchy issue, but even if it didn't exist, just finding someone that has similar ER views (or at least is willing to save anything) is sometimes difficult in and of itself.

I realize that money isn't anywhere near the most important thing - but my huge leaps forward in saving for ER in my 20s may end up making it far more difficult in meeting people for the right reasons (not only are my methods for maximizing savings a turn-off for many women, but my net worth presents problems of luring potential money-hungry spendthrifts). And as if my INTJ personality wasn't enough of a struggle in meeting a compatible match...

I've read some peoples' comments (like John Galt's) who say that they marry spouses who aren't as cost-conscious as themselves. How different are your significant others' views, and did you have to make concessions on what your 'ideal' significant others' financial views would have to be compared to what their actual views are?

Peter
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Re: Going it alone
Old 08-29-2004, 02:23 AM   #25
 
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Re: Going it alone

Hello Peter. Thoughtful post.

Obviously you know my history. My current spouse and I could not be further apart on financial matters.
I think and plan obsessively, she does almost none of that. She lives in "today" which is okay, except you might live 30 more years and end up with no money.
Here is what we did. She continues to work
(no savings whatsoever) and carries her weight financially. We have a soild pre-nup and an
equitable will. My expectation is that within the next 5
years (I will be 65 in 5 years and she will be 60) we will
begin to live off my money and SS. Spousal employment
will become less and less important although for now
it still holds appeal because of the independence it
provides her.

John Galt
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Re: Going it alone
Old 08-29-2004, 08:49 AM   #26
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Re: Going it alone

I'm 30 and my spouse is 34. I'm the saver and he's the spender. He must have ALL of the new toys. We both work FT (and more) and he earns about 2x what I earn. What saves us is that he covers pretty much all of our expenses. I only pay groceries and the property taxes. He does invest some (stocks, Roth, real estate), but since I have less expenses, I'm able to save much more than I would on my own. And as soon as my car is paid off, I'll have even more to throw into that pot. In the end, we both make out...unless he leaves me, in which case he's screwed for retirement.

Donna
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Re: Going it alone
Old 08-29-2004, 09:33 AM   #27
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Re: Going it alone

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. . . How different are your significant others' views, and did you have to make concessions on what your 'ideal' significant others' financial views would have to be compared to what their actual views are?

Peter
Hi Peter,

I met my DW when we were working in the same dishroom in college -- working our way through school. She was 20 and I was 21. We "dated" for about 2 weeks (one of them being finals week), then hitchhiked across the country together (Illinois to California and back). On returning, we decided to get married but did not have enough money to buy a marriage license, so I hithhiked across the state and put up hay for a couple of days to earn the money. When we married we had under $25 to our names. We did not consider each other's investing habits, or long term work goals, or just about anything else that would seem to make good sense. We were in love. . . and still are. (Although sometimes I think she's started to become more rational and wonders what kind of huge mistake she actually made).

We are 49 and 50 now and have been retired for about a year. We never received an inheritance or windfall of any kind so our retirement was reached entirely through our own work, saving and investing. We worked for a couple of years after getting our undergraduate degrees (hers in Dietetics, mine in electrical engineering). We quit so I could go back to graduate school and then while I was finishing up my dissertation, she went back to school and got an electrical engineering degree too. We both were fortunate enough to be fully employed during the mid- to late 80's and throughout the 90's by Electronics firms that did well. And we benefited by not being greedy, but taking profits from stock and redistributing it to other investments. We were very fortunate to make enough money that we had no trouble saving and investing while never denying ourselves much of anything we wanted.

We traveled to Europe, South America and the mid-East using my speaking engagements and conference appearances to pay for much of the trips. Even in our 40's we backpacked and stayed for cheap when we traveled -- not because we needed to, but because that's the kind of travel we enjoyed. Similarly, our vacations often involved things like tents, backpacks and camper shells. We were never tempted to buy a McMansion style home simply because we qualified to do so. These views we held in common and that clearly helps.

We are both far more frugal than our ex-colleagues(learned while trying to balance purchases of books and supplies with food and shelter back in our early college days). But we are not nearly as frugal as many who post regularly on this board. I think we could have learned to be quite happy living at a financial level significantly below where we ended up, but there was no need for us to do that. After all, we both started from much humbler beginnings.

We certainly don't agree about everything financial. Some things we work out through compromise while some things are a source of continuous debate. My DW is not very interested in investment specifics. But she does want every decision to be made with her awareness. She is happy to let me do the research and propose investment choices to her for approval and questioning.

That's pretty much how it works for us.
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Re: Going it alone
Old 08-29-2004, 10:36 AM   #28
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Re: Going it alone

Hey Pete...

Theres another solution for you, pretty much the one I took.

Just date like crazy for the next 15-20 years. Then when you're in your forties and everyone is starting to realize they need to do something about saving money and retiring, you'll find the dating pool full of people like-minded financially.

Not to mention all of your personalities will be 'set'. No "growing apart" or "becoming different people".

The problem appears to be the 20's/30's mindset of 'live for today'. Many people who manage to save and ER are simply financially mature for their ages.

I had a bazillion chances to get married from 20-40. Looking back, most of them would have been a really bad idea just on face value. The worse part is that I would have been tied down, needed to be a lot more conservative in my financial and career decisions, and I wouldnt have been able to take a lot of the chances I took that led me to ER.

On the other hand, you miss out on 10-15 years of marriage, and having kids early.

A quick glance at my friends who have been married 10-15 years suggests that this isnt much of a liability
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Re: Going it alone
Old 08-30-2004, 07:47 AM   #29
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Re: Going it alone

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I've read some peoples' comments (like John Galt's) who say that they marry spouses who aren't as cost-conscious as themselves. How different are your significant others' views, and did you have to make concessions on what your 'ideal' significant others' financial views would have to be compared to what their actual views are?

Peter
My wife and I met in college and were engaged before we graduated. Since she is 31 and I am less than a month from that age, we have had plenty of time to grow toegether and work out any significant differences on the subject of money. However, my wife has always been very frugal, to the point where she still agonizes over buying a pair of sneakers (which she does perhaps once a year), or modestly priced baby clothes (when the kiddo is bursting out of everything we have for her). This has largely been a help, since I don't have to fight the battle of the checkbook every month.

Since we were together before either of us had a cent to our names and have fairly similar views about money, we have always managed our money together. I tend to do the actual implementation, both because of inclination and ability. My wife is on board and I take pains to keep her in the loop as to what we own and how we are doing. However, any detailed discussions usually get cut off with expresssions of boredom on her part. I suppose that it is a flattering vote of confidence on her part.
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Re: Going it alone
Old 08-30-2004, 12:17 PM   #30
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Re: Going it alone

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However, any detailed discussions usually get cut off with expresssions of boredom on her part. *I suppose that it is a flattering vote of confidence on her part.

So that's what it is when my wife's eyes glaze over. *Its a vote of confidence
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Re: Going it alone
Old 08-30-2004, 12:36 PM   #31
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Re: Going it alone

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So that's what it is when my wife's eyes glaze over. *Its a vote of confidence *
Hey, as long as it only happens when you are discussing finances, its no problem...
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Re: Going it alone
Old 08-30-2004, 12:38 PM   #32
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Re: Going it alone

Women have eyes?


(no wonder I'm single)
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Re: Going it alone
Old 08-30-2004, 01:50 PM   #33
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Re: Going it alone

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Women have eyes?
Hey Jim - Nobody was more surprised than I was when I discovered this.
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Re: Going it alone
Old 08-30-2004, 04:22 PM   #34
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Re: Going it alone

The eyes are the part you feel starting at you when you get caught looking at the non eye parts - experienced that look a a very young age.
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Re: Going it alone
Old 09-02-2004, 08:40 AM   #35
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Re: Going it alone

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The eyes are the part you feel starting at you when you get caught looking at the non eye parts - experienced that look a a very young age.
HA! That is awesome. So true.
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Re: Going it alone
Old 09-07-2004, 01:36 AM   #36
 
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Re: Going it alone

These are all great stories - I have the following philosophy and am fortunate that my parents supported me in this (or perhaps encouraged me?) while growing up.

As a woman, I still consider myself responsible for supporting myself in some form or fashion-if that means I need to work in a job that would normally be thought of as "beneath" my degree qualifications, then so be it. I find it very difficult to not contribute in the offensive as well as defensive ways (earning and saving).

I think that if you work to surround yourself with people who think the same or go to places where people have similar interests, you will find someone who can be a compatible mate. I do believe you should be very picky in this category, though, as it is a decision that have a huge impact on your life - probably one of the most important ones - it can bring happiness or misery and fortune or poverty.

I also believe that if you become comfortable with yourself and realize that you are truly alone anyhow, you will begin to attract people who will like you for who you are and not what you have - this may sound crazy, but as I get older, I realize how much my personal attitude and mental outlook is reflected in the people around me, the experiences I have: my environment in general.

It can be sad being lonely, but once you understand it and make 'peace' with it, doors and windows start opening.

Deserat
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Re: Going it alone
Old 09-07-2004, 12:03 PM   #37
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Re: Going it alone

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These are all great stories - I have the following philosophy and am fortunate that my parents supported me in this (or perhaps encouraged me?) while growing up.

As a woman, I still consider myself responsible for supporting myself in some form or fashion-if that means I *need to work in a job that would normally be thought of as "beneath" my degree qualifications, then so be it. *I find it very difficult to not contribute in the offensive as well as defensive ways (earning and saving).

I think that if you work to surround yourself with people who think the same or go to places where people have similar interests, you will find someone who can be a compatible mate. *I do believe you should be very picky in this category, though, as it is a decision that have a huge impact on your life - probably one of the most important ones - it can bring happiness or misery and fortune or poverty.

I also believe that if you become comfortable with yourself and realize that you are truly alone anyhow, you will begin to attract people who will like you for who you are and not what you have - this may sound crazy, but as I get older, I realize how much my personal attitude and mental outlook is reflected in the people around me, the experiences I have: my environment in general.

It can be sad being lonely, but once you understand it and make 'peace' with it, doors and windows start opening.

Deserat
Good advice!
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Re: Going it alone
Old 09-07-2004, 02:38 PM   #38
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Re: Going it alone

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It can be sad being lonely, but once you understand it and make 'peace' with it, doors and windows start opening.Deserat
Very insighful.

I am still trying to make peace with it.

MJ
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Re: Going it alone
Old 09-07-2004, 03:27 PM   #39
 
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Re: Going it alone

Lonely? Sometimes that can be much better than being with someone

Anyway, I've been a part of a couple and I've been totally
single. As Clint Eastwood said in 'Bridges of Madison County', " I may be a loner but I'm not a monk."
You need to balance the big advantage of doing whatever you want whenever you want, with
the enhancement of your life in a relationship,
which requires consideration of your SO's feelings. It's a tough call for some.

I offer no advice. My record is not that good.

John Galt

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Re: Going it alone
Old 09-08-2004, 03:56 AM   #40
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Re: Going it alone

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Part of my impression is based on going online to a well-known singles site and reading the profiles. *I think out of the hundreds of profiles I read - yeah, I know I need a life * - every female wanted the "royal carpet" treatment. *And I can't say as I blame them. *Who wants to be married to someone non-fun and boring and non-romantic, etc.?
In my case it was the girl-next-door thing. No personality typing, interviews, speed dates, pre-nups, HIV tests; Hell, we were both teenagers. "I can get the car Friday night. How about the drive-in? By the way, you look really neat in those new pedal pushers."

Ah, those were simpler times... Eight years later we married (at 21) and just celebrated our 30th WA. Our strugle towards FI was pretty straightforward. I would earn, earn, earn, and she would save, save, save.

Now at 53 we are winding down the family biz and trying to figure out whats next and where. I can still get the car on Friday night (choice of 4). Drive-ins are however now replaced by HBO. And she STILL looks swell in those pedal pushers.

They're out there Whisper9999. Finding them is half the fun.

Lucky-in-love,

BUM
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