Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 08-08-2011, 08:51 PM   #21
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by dtbach

Gold doesn't actually have all that many industrial uses. Besides if Armageddon does come, the lead in my .45 will take your gold anyway.
Better up your arsenal. gold bugs I know have AKs ARs and Saiga12 s.
__________________

__________________
wolfbay is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 08-08-2011, 09:28 PM   #22
Full time employment: Posting here.
dtbach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Madison
Posts: 752
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfbay View Post
Better up your arsenal. gold bugs I know have AKs ARs and Saiga12 s.
A Single Action Army in the right hands is both more portable and faster than most of those. I'm a Cowboy Action Shooter and put thousands of rounds a year through one. Besides, most Gold Bugs would be too weighted down with all that worthless crap they tote around.
__________________

__________________
Wild Bill shoulda taken more out of his IRA when he could have. . . .
dtbach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2011, 11:32 PM   #23
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
clifp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,451
Quote:
Originally Posted by dtbach View Post
Gold doesn't actually have all that many industrial uses. Besides if Armageddon does come, the lead in my .45 will take your gold anyway.
For years alchemist dreamed of turning lead into gold. The just needed to invented gunpowder and guns.

To me jewelry is an industrial use of gold, but maybe it isn't considered to be one.
__________________
clifp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2011, 01:50 AM   #24
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: North of Montana
Posts: 2,753
ASFAIK, gold doesn't help produce food. Oil and gas do.

Besides, how many meals can you make from an ounce of gold. It's only a small mouthful but hard to chew.

Of course, YMMV.
__________________
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate conclusions from insufficient data and ..
kumquat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2011, 09:47 AM   #25
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
calmloki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Independence
Posts: 5,459
You can stick $28.000 worth of gold in your pocket and trot down the road. That volume and 1 pound weight won't discommode you a bit. Keeping that store of value in oil is more problematic. Not to say I wouldn't like to have a tank with 7,800 gallons of regular gas out back, but the cost of the Stabil would bug me, and having been a farm boy I know how gas gets stolen from tanks. Pound of gold doesn't show and doesn't deteriorate.
__________________
calmloki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2011, 10:20 AM   #26
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Koolau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Leeward Oahu
Posts: 3,244
Quote:
Originally Posted by clifp View Post
Back to HaHa's original point, while I understand the rational for oil decline and gold soaring. It still seems counter-intuitive.

The idea behind gold is it is an alternative currency, which can't be manipulated/debased by governments ok I get this. However, it seems to me that oil is also something that can't be easily manipulated by governments. Now a slowing economy will decrease the amount of oil consumed, but doesn't it also decrease the amount of jewelry bought, gold watches sold, and even industrial uses for gold.
Big, big differences between gold and oil (in addition to the uses already made abundantly clear in this thread). Much more so than "apples and oranges."

Oil is at or near it's elasticity inflection point (I just made up that term) That is, a 1% higher supply than we use and the price crashes. A 1% lower supply than we use and oil peaks to $150/barrel.

Gold, trades in extremely small amounts of a few thousand (maybe a few 10's of thousands) of ounces per day. The supply is virtually "infinite" by comparison. Also, when gold gets "used", it's not really gone. It's still in your ring or bracelet or necklace or in your computer. It CAN still be recovered. The world's supply of stored gold has been described as a chunk of gold the size of the largest barn you ever saw. So, while it isn't really infinite, compared to how much is traded (used) the supply is absolutely huge. Now, I don't claim to know how that all changes the dynamics, but it's clear that oil and gold trade for two completely different reasons. Trying to figure it out is probably not worth the brain cells.

Regarding "government manipulation of oil" - ever hear of OPEC? Yeah, they "leak" and don't totally control oil supply, but all they have to do is make supply change by 1% to accomplish their goal of changing the price dramatically.

Speaking of which, if the US wanted to crash the gold markets, all they would have to do is offer a few 100,000 oz of gold from Fort Knox to the "highest" bidder. Don't know that it would ever get back to $35/oz, but it wouldn't stay at $1700 - at least not until Fort Knox ran dry.

Hey, there's an idea for paying down the debt.
__________________
Ko'olau's Law -

Anything which can be used can be misused. Anything which can be misused will be.
Koolau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2011, 03:07 PM   #27
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
calmloki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Independence
Posts: 5,459
Not buying gold now, but am gratified to own some. It's price increase over the last few months says people are voting for it, irrational though that may be. So a question - is voting against the flow of the market rational? Was just looking at a gold graph for the last year - graph shows gold at $1200 back in September of 2010 and it's $1789.40 this afternoon. Back at $1200 i was arguing that we sell half of our Philharmonics. That suggestion is brought back up to me with a question about how some of my other stock purchases have been doing (looking at you emerging markets).
__________________
calmloki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2011, 03:25 PM   #28
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
REWahoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 42,134
Quote:
Originally Posted by calmloki View Post
Back at $1200 i was arguing that we sell half of our Philharmonics.
Exactly what asset class do symphony orchestras fall under?
__________________
Numbers is hard

When I hit 70, it hit back

Retired in 2005 at age 58, no pension
REWahoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2011, 03:47 PM   #29
Moderator Emeritus
Nords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,620
Quote:
Originally Posted by REWahoo View Post
Exactly what asset class do symphony orchestras fall under?
Around here? Bankruptcy...
__________________
*
*

The book written on E-R.org, "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement", on sale now! For more info see "About Me" in my profile.
I don't spend much time here anymore, so please send me a PM. Thanks.
Nords is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2011, 03:49 PM   #30
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
REWahoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 42,134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords View Post
Around here? Bankruptcy...
<rimshot!>
__________________
Numbers is hard

When I hit 70, it hit back

Retired in 2005 at age 58, no pension
REWahoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2011, 04:16 PM   #31
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Gone4Good's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,381
Quote:
Originally Posted by FD View Post
IMHO, the gold rally is symptomatic of a flight to safety. The lower crude prices is symptomatic of a slowing economy. \
Bingo
__________________
Retired early, traveling perpetually.
Gone4Good is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2011, 04:16 PM   #32
Full time employment: Posting here.
dtbach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Madison
Posts: 752
Sure I should have bought gold back when it was $400/oz. Same can be said of Ebay and Yahoo in the 90's. Both have come back to earth. Gold is a relic, not much real use for the stuff other than bling or fashion for pimps and whores. So when nobody can afford the price of gold, what do you do?? It will come down just as fast as the dot comm crap.
__________________
Wild Bill shoulda taken more out of his IRA when he could have. . . .
dtbach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2011, 04:25 PM   #33
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
calmloki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Independence
Posts: 5,459
Quote:
Originally Posted by dtbach View Post
.... Gold is a relic, not much real use for the stuff other than bling or fashion for pimps and whores.....

You seem to have a real problem with gold. Did gold water your wheaties?
__________________
calmloki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2011, 06:31 PM   #34
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
packrat44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: near Canadian border and near Mexican border
Posts: 1,142
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfbay View Post
The difference is they haven't figured out how to print it.
That is one of the reasons governments do not like gold (or silver). It keeps them honest. The government can print money without additional backing of value, but if an individual does it, it is counterfeiting.
__________________
Pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered. That's my story and I am sticking to it.
packrat44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2011, 07:02 PM   #35
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Koolau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Leeward Oahu
Posts: 3,244
Quote:
Originally Posted by dtbach View Post
Sure I should have bought gold back when it was $400/oz. Same can be said of Ebay and Yahoo in the 90's. Both have come back to earth. Gold is a relic, not much real use for the stuff other than bling or fashion for pimps and whores. So when nobody can afford the price of gold, what do you do?? It will come down just as fast as the dot comm crap.
I don't really disagree with anything you say, but I would point out a couple of differences between gold and Ebay/Yahoo (or more importantly, the hundreds of dot.coms that flew high and then disappeared completely). While Ebay/Yahoo are known worldwide, they STILL are not known as widely as gold. I doubt any human on the planet over the age of 10 doesn't know that gold is "valuable". That is not true of Ebay/Yahoo.

The bigger difference is that, while every stock will eventually be worthless (as will every paper money) gold has several thousand years of track record of having at least some value. Yes, it varies - even widely, but it's never worthless.

There are at least 2 reasons to hold (or at least invest in) gold IMHO. A small amount 2% to 5% has been shown to balance a portfolio in ways that paper does not. Correlation between gold and paper is the reason. When paper (stocks/bonds) approach a correlation of 1, gold almost never does - especially not for 2 or 3 years at a time.

The second reason is that WTSHTF, gold is a portable store of wealth (proven through history) that may allow one to get out of Dodge with more than the shirt on one's back.

Personally, I've never done the latter (escape Dodge), but the correlation thing has made me very happy in the dot.com bubble as well as the '08 and current unsettled markets.

I see gold as "rational", but, of course, YMMV.
__________________
Ko'olau's Law -

Anything which can be used can be misused. Anything which can be misused will be.
Koolau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2011, 08:48 AM   #36
Full time employment: Posting here.
dixonge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Ajijic
Posts: 848
Gold is being used by large institutional investors and government central banks worldwide as both a hedge and an alternative to U.S. treasuries. China wants to see the world move away from the dollar as the reserve currency of choice. Many other nations think similarly. China is even mining and keeping their own gold, never releasing it to the open market. THAT is why gold is still climbing. It's not a bubble or a 'relic' when that many large entities hold hundreds of tons of the stuff.

I was finally persuaded to use gold myself, mainly as a hedge against inflation eating up all of my non-invested cash. (I've been 100% cash for more than a year now) I did a lot of reading before pulling the trigger. I would have been happy with a stable sideways move, instead I'm up 20% in two months.
__________________
dixonge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2011, 10:40 AM   #37
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Lsbcal's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: west coast, hi there!
Posts: 5,695
I am hesitant to sell one remaining 1980 Maple Leaf 1 ounce gold coin I bought back then. It cost a lot to learn the economic lesson I learned way back then .
__________________
Lsbcal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2011, 10:57 AM   #38
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,072
See what Charlie Maxwell has to say about oil. Sept 10, 2011 episode of WealthTrack

Maxwell is a Senior Energy Analyst with Weeden & Company.

The interview does not discuss gold, but oil and energy... specifically fossil fuel.

He discusses the concern about Peak Oil and he has some insight into the issue and how to identify which energy companies may benefit the most if we begin to experience a shortage (i.e., when we demand equals supply... no or little surplus capacity).

Consuelo Mack WealthTrack - Home - The Right Track To Your Financial Health
__________________

__________________
chinaco is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:31 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.