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Great, simple advice
Old 09-13-2006, 01:36 PM   #1
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Great, simple advice

This is advertized as advice for graduates, but its good for anyone in my opinion.
If everyone did these four simple things how different the world would be.

https://flagship.vanguard.com/VGApp/hnw/VanguardViewsArticle?Entry=...

EDITED by moderator: Shortened link -BMJ
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Re: Great, simple advice
Old 09-13-2006, 01:47 PM   #2
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Re: Great, simple advice

Good advice for some, but where would our economy be if everyone lived below their means? What would growth in GDP and the stock market be?
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Re: Great, simple advice
Old 09-13-2006, 01:53 PM   #3
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Re: Great, simple advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by scrinch
Good advice for some, but where would our economy be if everyone lived below their means? What would growth in GDP and the stock market be?
Like I said the world would be very different. Somehow the idea that greater and greater consumption leads to wealth strikes me as an ultimately untenible situation.
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Re: Great, simple advice
Old 09-13-2006, 02:03 PM   #4
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Re: Great, simple advice

Yeah, I wonder what is tenable in the long term. Even 3% inflation gets out of control in the long term. Well, you won't find me arguing against personal financial responsibility....or corporate, state, or federal fiscal responsibility, either.
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Re: Great, simple advice
Old 09-13-2006, 02:04 PM   #5
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Re: Great, simple advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by scrinch
Good advice for some, but where would our economy be if everyone lived below their means?* What would growth in GDP and the stock market be?
Doesn't seem to cause problems in Singapore.
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Re: Great, simple advice
Old 09-13-2006, 04:42 PM   #6
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Re: Great, simple advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by nun
Somehow the idea that greater and greater consumption leads to wealth strikes me as an ultimately untenible situation.
Yes and no. Greater and greater consumption by some makes wealth for those who LBYM and invest in the economy. Greater consumption by everyone leads to disaster (IMHO). The question is where is the point of balance? I think we may be on the side of too much consumption, but I am not certain.
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Re: Great, simple advice
Old 09-13-2006, 08:44 PM   #7
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Re: Great, simple advice

Why OH Why don't they teach this in the schools - early and often! It drives me crazy!


Quote:
Originally Posted by nun
This is advertized as advice for graduates, but its good for anyone in my opinion.
If everyone did these four simple things how different the world would be.

https://flagship.vanguard.com/VGApp/hnw/VanguardViewsArticle?Entry=...

EDITED by moderator: Shortened link -BMJ
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Re: Great, simple advice
Old 09-14-2006, 09:28 AM   #8
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Re: Great, simple advice

Arc - I would LOVE to teach this in my classes (and I actually do try to fit bits in when I can) BUT I AM TOO BUSY TRYING TO COMPLY WITH NCLB REQUIREMENTS, and so have no time to teach things that might actually be USEFUL to my students in living their lives. How sad. (They will be GREAT at filling in the bubbles on any questionnaires the Government sends out, however!!)
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Re: Great, simple advice
Old 09-14-2006, 10:24 AM   #9
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Re: Great, simple advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arc
Why OH Why don't they teach this in the schools - early and often! It drives me crazy!

They should teach it. I think most states have a "States Requirements Course" like we had in CA--it is where they put course material mandated by te state that didn't fit anywhere else (first aid, etc). Personal finances sold a topic as well.

But, the ultimate responsibility ought to be with mom and dad. No amount of courswork can take the place of lots of talks across the dinner table. And years of seeing bad examples from parents probably can't be overcome in class. But, it is defintiely worth exposing kids to the topic--it will sink in with some of them, ad that helps both them and society. I'll bet the instructors would get nasty calls from parents if the course hammers the importance of personal financial responsibilty too hard.

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Re: Great, simple advice
Old 09-14-2006, 09:37 PM   #10
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Re: Great, simple advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolidA
Arc - I would LOVE to teach this in my classes (and I actually do try to fit bits in when I can) BUT I AM TOO BUSY TRYING TO COMPLY WITH NCLB REQUIREMENTS, and so have no time to teach things that might actually be USEFUL to my students in living their lives.* How sad. (They will be GREAT at filling in the bubbles on any questionnaires the Government sends out, however!!)
SolidA - your commentary makes me sad. I tend to think that vouchers and charter schools would tend to address these problems. Introduce a little competition and reduce the role of government and let's see what happens.
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Re: Great, simple advice
Old 09-14-2006, 09:48 PM   #11
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Re: Great, simple advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by samclem
They should teach it.* I think most states have a "States Requirements Course" like we had in CA--it is where they put course material mandated by te state that didn't fit anywhere else (first aid, etc).* Personal finances sold a topic as well.

But, the ultimate responsibility ought to be with mom and dad.* No amount of courswork can take the place of lots of talks across the dinner table.* And years of seeing bad examples from parents probably can't be overcome in class.* But, it is defintiely worth exposing kids to the topic--it will sink in with some of them, ad that helps both them and society.* I'll bet the instructors would get nasty calls from parents if the course hammers the importance of personal financial responsibilty too hard.

* *
samclem - I couldn't agree more that the parents have ultimate responsibility - however - if we are to break the paradigm in this area, we have to remember that that there are generations of people that have grown up with the expectation that government and companies are going to take care of them. With Social Security a huge ? for young workers today and with companies trending away from pension plans, a lot of people are going to have to think differently than their parents. I think the schools can / should fill that gap.

If personal financial responsibilitly had the same status as reading, writing and arithmetic - and was introduced at a very early grade level, could we break that paradigm? Remember, as everyone on this board knows, we are not talking rocket science - refer back to "Great, simple advice" that started this thread.
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Re: Great, simple advice
Old 09-15-2006, 10:41 AM   #12
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Re: Great, simple advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arc
samclem - I couldn't agree more that the parents have ultimate responsibility - however - if we are to break the paradigm in this area, we have to remember that that there are generations of people that have grown up with the expectation that government and companies are going to take care of them. With Social Security a huge ? for young workers today and with companies trending away from pension plans, a lot of people are going to have to think differently than their parents. I think the schools can / should fill that gap.

If personal financial responsibilitly had the same status as reading, writing and arithmetic - and was introduced at a very early grade level, could we break that paradigm? Remember, as everyone on this board knows, we are not talking rocket science - refer back to "Great, simple advice" that started this thread.
I think its only the generations since WWII that have been brought up with little or no financial responsibility. That's when the ability to spend money really took off with the general access to bank accounts and credit cards. The development of teh consumer society gives us lots of things and it seems to be financed on a lot of personal debt. I'm increasingly disenchanted with our consumption oriented society.......I think I'll move to vermont and start waering a tin foil hat :-)
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Re: Great, simple advice
Old 09-15-2006, 11:08 AM   #13
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Re: Great, simple advice

Easy credit terms changed a lot of former financial behavior, probably Social Security and pensions nudged spending upward as well. But generalizations are just that. In my family, my maternal grandparents were too poor to save, my paternal grandfather spent down his savings in retirement, and my parents lived AT their means, not above nor below them. My brothers and I--baby boomers all--are more frugal than our previous generations (especially me), also more financially successful. My husband's parents and gradnparents also lived at their means.
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Re: Great, simple advice
Old 09-15-2006, 11:12 AM   #14
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Re: Great, simple advice

Quote:
I think its only the generations since WWII that have been brought up with little or no financial responsibility. That's when the ability to spend money really took off with the general access to bank accounts and credit cards. The development of teh consumer society gives us lots of things and it seems to be financed on a lot of personal debt. I'm increasingly disenchanted with our consumption oriented society.......I think I'll move to vermont and start waering a tin foil hat :-)
I think the major reason people dont LBYM is they havent had any financial hardship....many folks raise their kids into middle/upper class and allow the kids to think that is where they rightfully belong...read wildcat's post on the young dreamer forum about folks that are successful here having to earn their way in their 20s....The Millionaire Next Door has a similar discussion....
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Re: Great, simple advice
Old 09-15-2006, 11:23 AM   #15
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Re: Great, simple advice

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Originally Posted by Maddy the Turbo Beagle
I think the major reason people dont LBYM is they havent had any financial hardship
Although it worked for me, I knew lots of people who didn't become frugal after experiencing bad financial times--sux to be them. I acutally know couples where one person lost their job and yet they continued with the dining out, cable TV, manicures, and other nice-to-haves. De nile ain't just a river in Eqypt, as they say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maddy the Turbo Beagle
many folks raise their kids into middle/upper class and allow the kids to think that is where they rightfully belong
As long as they also encourage their kids to go into lucrative careers, I guess that could work
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Re: Great, simple advice
Old 09-15-2006, 02:30 PM   #16
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Re: Great, simple advice


I think the high-consumption high-debt non-saver portion of the population, if it is a large proportion as I believe it is today, causes serious economic repercussions for the LBYM minority (of which I'm a part). Mainly in the form of inflation. Prices tend to ratcheted up to whatever the consumption-addicted populace will bear, and since these people think in terms of minimum payments rather than total cost, there's not much resistance to higher prices. This is most obvious in the aftermath of the housing bubble, but it's also in pricing of many things. And it becomes even worse when combined with low interest rates, as promoted by the Fed in order to keep the consumption-addicted economy growing at some rate pleasing to the markets. Low rates punish savers even more.
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Re: Great, simple advice
Old 09-15-2006, 02:41 PM   #17
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Re: Great, simple advice

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Originally Posted by astromeria
as they also encourage their kids to go into lucrative careers, I guess that could work*
Definatately...do know of some folks that made it work....but many others that ended up with their kids living in their parent's basement... for some reason...lots of them end up on dr. feel..
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