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Old 02-10-2012, 12:41 PM   #21
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When someone says "Guaranteed Investment" that would raise some red flags. Kinda like someone saying "high return - no risk".

Maybe you should ask him:

1) Is he invested in that himself

2) If not, why not since it's "guaranteed"
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Old 02-10-2012, 04:56 PM   #22
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I don't know exactly how I let this happen but a couple weeks ago I allowed a sales rep to see if he could reduce our insurance costs. He came today to deliver the "results" and it turned out that he couldn't beat my existing rate.

The problem is that he switched over to a discussion of tax preparation (I do my own), estate planning and investment planning. His card says "Chartered Retirement Planning Counselor". He proposed that I consider "guaranteed" investments. He wouldn't say what they are specifically except that Certificates of Deposits are an example. Claims they offer the investment vehicles (my term) from over 100 companies. In response to my question he denied that they were annuities.

He wants to come back next week to review my goals and propose a plan. I think this must be mostly hooey but I'm also curious to know what in the world he's talking about.

Any thoughts on what he's going to try and sell me? Other recommendations? Is a CRPC a legitimate title. He's from Financial Services of America and he admitted this would be commission based.
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Old 02-10-2012, 10:08 PM   #23
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I wouldn't sit through the presentation unless you were curious.
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I haven't decided whether to cancel or whether to go ahead with it just out of curiosity - maybe play with him a bit.
What, you built the suspense up to a fever pitch and you're not going to tell us the thrilling conclusion?!? You have to go now, and you have to take notes!

Tell him you're going to post all of his comments and documentation here for our critique... and the letters after our names are "FIRE".
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Update on "Guaranteed" Investment
Old 02-16-2012, 03:28 PM   #24
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Update on "Guaranteed" Investment

Well, I met with this guy again today. Lot's of discussion of goals, risk tolerance, etc. He still hasn't given me a clue as to what he's selling which is somewhat frustrating. There's been some benefit (to me) of being forced to articulate my financial ideas.

He did say that he thought I could self insure for LTC. I was thinking that we were marginal with respect to this so I was interested in his comment although he didn't provide any data to back up his observation.

I can't believe I agreed to meet with him again next week, but he's supposed to bring a recommended "plan" so at least that should bring things to some sort of conclusion.
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Old 02-16-2012, 03:53 PM   #25
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Well, I met with this guy again today. Lot's of discussion of goals, risk tolerance, etc. He still hasn't given me a clue as to what he's selling which is somewhat frustrating. There's been some benefit (to me) of being forced to articulate my financial ideas.

He did say that he thought I could self insure for LTC. I was thinking that we were marginal with respect to this so I was interested in his comment although he didn't provide any data to back up his observation.

I can't believe I agreed to meet with him again next week, but he's supposed to bring a recommended "plan" so at least that should bring things to some sort of conclusion.
Keep us informed..........
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Old 02-16-2012, 06:42 PM   #26
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It's bound to be a Variable Annuity with a guaranteed income payout of, oh let's see, 5% after X years. Probably worthwhile to you only if you have no other guaranteed income payments. Oh wait, you probably have Social Security income coming. Like one poster suggested, don't agree to anything while he's there. Read it, and read it carefully.
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Old 02-16-2012, 07:43 PM   #27
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It's bound to be a Variable Annuity with a guaranteed income payout of, oh let's see, 5% after X years. Probably worthwhile to you only if you have no other guaranteed income payments. Oh wait, you probably have Social Security income coming. Like one poster suggested, don't agree to anything while he's there. Read it, and read it carefully.
+1
This is really good advice. If the "advisor" is the real deal, there should be no pressure to sign anything. Gather the information, look it over carefully and get back to him on your own terms. Let us know what you find out. Can't wait!
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Old 02-16-2012, 08:02 PM   #28
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+1
This is really good advice. If the "advisor" is the real deal, there should be no pressure to sign anything. Gather the information, look it over carefully and get back to him on your own terms. Let us know what you find out. Can't wait!
This violates the businessperson's mantra: Always Be Closing.

Ha
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Old 02-16-2012, 09:09 PM   #29
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This violates the businessperson's mantra: Always Be Closing.

Ha
LOL- "Always Be Closing" reminds me of Glenn Gary Glenn Ross. First prize, a Cadillac... Second prize, a set of steak knives... Third prize, you're fired.
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Old 02-17-2012, 10:38 AM   #30
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Old 02-17-2012, 11:02 AM   #31
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I am wondering if the "guarateed investment is the famous "equity-linked CD" ploy............
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Old 02-17-2012, 11:45 AM   #32
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or an equity indexed annuity.
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Old 02-17-2012, 12:10 PM   #33
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I am wondering if the "guarateed investment is the famous "equity-linked CD" ploy............
I have a feeling that it might be, but don't know for sure. I did a quick forum search for this but didn't find much. I did find information on the web, and it didn't sound altogether awful. Under what circumstances would this option make sense?
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We have a winner
Old 02-29-2012, 02:00 PM   #34
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We have a winner

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or an equity indexed annuity.
We have a winner! Actually it's an equity indexed annuity with an income rider. Actually seemed to make some sense as an alternative to a SPIA. Getting ready to leave town for a bit but I'll plan to post details next week when I return. Should be fun to see what this board thinks of it. Sort of like "throwing it to the lions".
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Old 02-29-2012, 02:09 PM   #35
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We have a winner! Actually it's an equity indexed annuity with an income rider. Actually seemed to make some sense as an alternative to a SPIA. Getting ready to leave town for a bit but I'll plan to post details next week when I return. Should be fun to see what this board thinks of it. Sort of like "throwing it to the lions".
Heh, heh, details? This Forum don't need no stinkin' details. We can trash equity indexed annuities (with or without an income rider) without no stinkin' details - probably before you return.
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Old 02-29-2012, 02:21 PM   #36
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Actually it's an equity indexed annuity with a n income rider hefty commission.
FIFY...
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Old 02-29-2012, 02:23 PM   #37
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See what I mean?
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Old 02-29-2012, 02:24 PM   #38
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We have a winner! Actually it's an equity indexed annuity with an income rider. Actually seemed to make some sense as an alternative to a SPIA. Getting ready to leave town for a bit but I'll plan to post details next week when I return. Should be fun to see what this board thinks of it. Sort of like "throwing it to the lions".
Those products are GREAT (for the agent and the insurance company, and noone else)............
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Some Details
Old 02-29-2012, 06:02 PM   #39
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Some Details

Okay, here are some details. I'd rather do this than pack my suitcase.

There are two parts, the Equity Indexed Annuity and the Income Rider. I assume they took this approach because I told them I was considering a SPIA.

EIA
- from North American Company for Life and Health Insurance
-14 year term (includes immediate 10% bonus, so $100K becomes $110K)
-Client can select amoung 4 buckets each year: fixed, 1 yr Pt to Pt (6% cap), Monthly Pt to Pt (2% cap), or Monthly average (2% cap)
-100% participation
- can be renewed at end of term or cashed out
- can be assumed by spouse at death
- no fees other than surrender fees (start at 18% and decline to 2% in last year)

Income Rider
- An initial fee that starts at .35% ($350 on $100K) - a little unclear what it could go up to
- Customer determines when to start drawing income. The longer you wait the more you can draw. If I started immediately I would get 5.6%. If I waited 5 years I'd get 8.5%
- The income stream reduces the EIA balance but if the balance goes to zero the income stream continues uninterrupted.
- There's a fair amount of "***** pocus" around all these calculations so more study is needed.

They claim this achieves the income stream of a SPIA without giving up control of your capital. Of course, if you want to continue the income stream you have to keep the money in the EIA so this seems a bit bogus.

Okay, have at it. Tell me why this is a bad idea.
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Old 02-29-2012, 11:40 PM   #40
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Security Benefit has a similar product. It has an 8% bonus when you start and adds 8% each year to the basis for a guaranteed lifetime withdrawal.
https://www.siaincome.com/
https://www.siaincome.com/calculator.aspx
I would want to compare them side by side before buying one or the other and would not put too large a percentage of my portfolio into one of these things.
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