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Re: Guess what
Old 09-20-2005, 09:04 AM   #41
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Re: Guess what

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Originally Posted by MRGALT2U
Just curious.* Are they a "moron" because they hit you, or are they a
"moron" because they drive a "4500 lb. SUV or pickup"??

JG
Both.
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Re: Guess what
Old 09-20-2005, 10:27 AM   #42
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Re: Guess what

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Originally Posted by REWahoo!
Last year I replaced my 1999 Camry (4) with a 2004 Malibu Maxx (6).* This is the first Chevy I've owned since the early 70's and I was a bit concerned about reliability, etc. but so far so good (22,000 mi).* I do about 25/75 city/highway driving and I've been averaging 29+ mpg, virtually the same as the Camry.* It does get around 33 on the highway.

The Malibu is about the same size as the Camry, but the Maxx version has much more back seat room.* It also comes with a lot of nice features, not to mention a fairly reasonable price tag.

Thanks for the info. I also have close to 2,500 points/credit built up on my GM credit card.
It is the old GM card which allows full usage towards any GM vehicle.*
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Re: Guess what
Old 09-20-2005, 10:38 AM   #43
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Re: Guess what

Quote:
Originally Posted by DOG51
Thanks for the info. I also have close to 2,500 points/credit built up on my GM credit card.
It is the old GM card which allows full usage towards any GM vehicle.
Yep. That's one of the main reasons I bought the car...I had 3,200 points with the old GM card. After all the discounts, rebates, card credits and negotiations, I got more than $10k off the sticker price. Think it may be the best deal I've ever gotten on a new car.
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Re: Guess what
Old 09-20-2005, 10:50 AM   #44
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Re: Guess what

Quote:
Originally Posted by REWahoo!
Yep.* That's one of the main reasons I bought the car...I had 3,200 points with the old GM card.* After all the discounts, rebates, card credits and negotiations, I got more than $10k off the sticker price.* Think it may be the best deal I've ever gotten on a new car.
Sounds like we got the same deal.* Bought a MAX in December for $13999. Got it for my son, but took a 4000 mile breakin trip first and got* a steady 32MPG highway. On one stretch, actually got 37MPG.* Only problem so far (10,000 miles) is a fussy cruise control switch.* I* used GM points, Citi Bank points and even tried to trade the dalmation in.
Like you, it was the best deal I've ever swung.
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Re: Guess what
Old 09-20-2005, 11:26 AM   #45
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Re: Guess what

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Originally Posted by brewer12345
I would be right there with you buying a small, efficient car except for one thing: what do you think happpens when a 2000 lb. car gets nailed by some moron's 4500 lb SUV or pickup? No thanks. I want over 3000 lb of car around me, minimum, unless monstrous gas guzzlers become vastly less popular.
There are general trends of heavier=safer, but you can pick winners. For example, the civic's fatality rate is 47 per million, where the Chevy Blazer is over 200! In fact, a lot of SUV's have higher death rates than people think. This is due to their high rollover rate. Now that doesn't directly address your point of a head on collision, but if you are worm food, the path you took to that state is kind of moot. Civic has 5 star crash ratings, and there are other small, safe cars as well.
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Re: Guess what
Old 09-20-2005, 11:43 AM   #46
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Re: Guess what

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Originally Posted by Laurence
There are general trends of heavier=safer, but you can pick winners.* For example, the civic's fatality rate is 47 per million, where the Chevy Blazer is over 200!* In fact, a lot of SUV's have higher death rates than people think.* This is due to their high rollover rate.* Now that doesn't directly address your point of a head on collision, but if you are worm food, the path you took to that state is kind of moot.* Civic has 5 star crash ratings, and there are other small, safe cars as well.
Yes, but you cannot beat the laws of physics. Look at the IIHS side impact tests of small cars. The tests simulated a truck or SUV t-boning a compact sedan. Not pretty.
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Re: Guess what
Old 09-20-2005, 11:57 AM   #47
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Re: Guess what

Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer12345
Yes, but you cannot beat the laws of physics. Look at the IIHS side impact tests of small cars. The tests simulated a truck or SUV t-boning a compact sedan. Not pretty.
Point ceded, but death is death, and if I decrease my chance of death from side impact by say, 10 per one million, but increase my chance of death by rollover by 20 per one million, what have I gained?

But your universal truth holds here as well: you pays your money and takes your chances...
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Re: Guess what
Old 09-20-2005, 12:06 PM   #48
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Re: Guess what

The choice of transportation is not limited to either a Civic or a Blazer.

In general, The safest vehicles are very large cars that very rarely (if ever) roll over. A Lincoln Town car / Cadillac Deville fits that bill well.

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Re: Guess what
Old 09-20-2005, 12:11 PM   #49
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Re: Guess what

Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterBlaster
The choice of transportation is not limited to either a Civic or a Blazer.

In general, The safest vehicles are very large cars that very rarely (if ever) roll over. A Lincoln Town car / Cadillac Deville fits that bill well.
Yes, but Brewer and I have some taste!

Your statement is backed up by the studies, Mercedes E-class is the safest vehicle.
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Re: Guess what
Old 09-20-2005, 12:14 PM   #50
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Re: Guess what

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurence
Point ceded, but death is death, and if I decrease my chance of death from side impact by say, 10 per one million, but increase my chance of death by rollover by 20 per one million, what have I gained?*

But your universal truth holds here as well: you pays your money and takes your chances...*
You won't catch me buying an SUV for exactly that reason. I own a midsized wagon and a minivan, neither of which tends to roll over and both of which are pretty heavy and got good crash test ratings. I suspect that in a moderate accident the van would get totalled simply because it would cost so much to replace the dozen airbags, though.
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Re: Guess what
Old 09-20-2005, 12:16 PM   #51
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Re: Guess what

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurence
Yes, but Brewer and I have some taste!*

Your statement is backed up by the studies, Mercedes E-class is the safest vehicle.
And if you want to follow "The Millionaire Next Door," purchase your vehicles by the pound and get a Ford Crown Victoria. Heavy, cheap, and relatively safe.
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Re: Guess what
Old 09-20-2005, 12:21 PM   #52
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Re: Guess what

A Crown Victoria would fit the bill well if it weren't for the exploding gas tank issue.

For those not familiar with this issue, The gas tank on that car is placed unprotected behind the rear axel where in a rear collision it can rupture causing very severe fires and injuries/death.

State troopers/highway patrolmen often drive Crown Vics and park them along side of interstates. Drunks and in-attentive drivers (cell phones etc) sometimes (too often) plough into the rear of these police cars.
There have been a large number of very controversial fires after collisions and a large number of policemen burned alive. The car has a poor reputation amoung policemen.
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Re: Guess what
Old 09-20-2005, 12:21 PM   #53
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Re: Guess what

Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer12345
You won't catch me buying an SUV for exactly that reason. I own a midsized wagon and a minivan, neither of which tends to roll over and both of which are pretty heavy and got good crash test ratings. I suspect that in a moderate accident the van would get totalled simply because it would cost so much to replace the dozen airbags, though.
So I'm preaching to the chior. Does the wagon have side airbags, and I wonder what side airbags do to improve the safety of compact cars in side impact crashes?

EDIT: Oh, and I'm a hypocrite since I drive a Jeep Grand Cherokee. But that was purchased in ignorance, before I knew about rollover risk. :P
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Re: Guess what
Old 09-20-2005, 12:34 PM   #54
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Re: Guess what

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Originally Posted by Laurence
So I'm preaching to the chior.* Does the wagon have side airbags, and I wonder what side airbags do to improve the safety of compact cars in side impact crashes?

EDIT: Oh, and I'm a hypocrite since I drive a Jeep Grand Cherokee.* But that was purchased in ignorance, before I knew about rollover risk.* :P
The wagon doesn't, since it is a 2003 legacy, which didn't offer side airbags. That and stability control will be high on my list next time. FYI, side airbags made a significant difference in the side impact test. IIRC, the only small cars that got acceptable rating had the side bags (Corolla and Cobalt, I believe).
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Re: Guess what
Old 09-20-2005, 12:44 PM   #55
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Re: Guess what

O.K., so I did a little checking, the civic coupe is a little risky, but the sedan got 5 stars everywhere except, drum roll please, side impact (4 stars there with the side airbag, 3 without). That was the '05 model, testing on '06 not available yet....
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Re: Guess what
Old 09-20-2005, 01:11 PM   #56
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Re: Guess what

For what it's worth, you have to rear-end a Crown Vic at something like 70 mph to make it explode! It's basically the same old story as those old GM pickups with the saddle tanks mounted outside the frame. Sure, they'll blow up. If you hit them hard enough. Or if you do like Dateline did and strap on a few pounds of explosives! And, incidentally, the accident that caused all the controversy over those GM pickups came up when one got T-boned at something like 73 mph!

I remember reading somewhere that overall, the death rates of GM's big pickups from that era were slightly LOWER than their Ford and Dodge competition. Interestingly, even the Pinto, that infamous Barbeque that Seats Four had an overall death rate about similar to other small cars of the time.

As for hanging gas tanks out behind the rear axle, car makers had been doing that almost since the dawn of automotive history. Just about every RWD car ever made, at least until they started coming up with independent rear suspensions and finding ways to get the gas tanks up under the back seat, had the tank mounted behind the rear axle. I think the problem with Ford, though, might have been that their design was a bit different. Most RWD cars just strapped on a wide, but shallow gas tank under the trunk. Ford made the gas tank more vertical and put it right behind the rear axle. The result was that the trunk had a nice, deep well behind the gas tank, and a more shallow shelf up over the tank and the rear axle, where the spare tire went. Other cars had trunks that were wider and went further forward, but didn't have that nice deep well.

Well, when a car gets rear-ended, especially a body-on-frame car, the first place it usually buckles is right over the rear axle. Now you'd think that having a gas tank further forward would be safer, and a Crown Vic has its tank further forward than something like a Caprice, Diplomat, etc. But when the car buckles, the tank would get pinched between the trunk well and the rear axle, and rupture.

I used to have a Gran Fury, and it had a little shield mounted between the rear axle and the gas tank. It just looked like it was made out of rubber, and I don't know if it would've done much good in a rear-ender. But evidently, Chrysler saw fit to put it there, so maybe they knew something that Ford didn't?

Still, I wouldn't be afraid of a Crown Vic just because of the fire incidents. If you spend most of your time stopped along high-speed freeways, then you might want to reconsider. But they're not going to blow up if someone backs into it in the parking lot. Or bumps it at 11 mph with a '72 Impala...
http://www.motherjones.com/news/feat...9/compress.mov
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Re: Guess what
Old 09-20-2005, 01:46 PM   #57
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Re: Guess what

Speaking of old Impalas, I was rear-ended in a '71 by an Isuzu p/u. Put a small dent in my bumper; pretty much wiped out the pickup's doghouse. Just drove away... 8)
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Re: Guess what
Old 09-20-2005, 01:52 PM   #58
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Re: Guess what

My step-mother had a big green Ford Grenada (70 something), got hit head on by a Nissan 300zx, similar result, softball sized dent in bumper vs. total obliteration of the 'Z.
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Re: Guess what
Old 09-20-2005, 02:02 PM   #59
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Re: Guess what

Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterBlaster
A Crown Victoria would fit the bill well if it weren't for the exploding gas tank issue.

For those not familiar with this issue, The gas tank on that car is placed unprotected behind the rear axel where in a rear collision it can rupture causing very severe fires and injuries/death.

State troopers/highway patrolmen often drive Crown Vics and park them along side of interstates. Drunks and in-attentive drivers (cell phones etc) sometimes (too often) plough into the rear of these police cars.
There have been a large number of very controversial fires after collisions and a large number of policemen burned alive. The car has a poor reputation amoung policemen.
That's my dad's ride. He has liked big US cars for a long time: 1970s Olds 98, 1983 Buick Electra Wagon, 1980 Cadillac, 1983 Suburban, 1987 Olds Delta 88, 1972 Olds Cutlass convertible (holy crap was that thing big), etc. His latest is a 1998 Crown Vic he bought at a police auction for peanuts. It was and still looks like an undercover car, so people get the h3ll out of the way when he is on the highway. I know he was looking at the next auction for another car simply because he likes to drive old bombs and gets the next one before the current ride gives up the ghost. Cheap way to drive, though.
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Re: Guess what
Old 09-20-2005, 02:20 PM   #60
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Re: Guess what

I think one of the most embarrassing accidents I got into was about 13 years ago. I rear-ended a 1955 DeSoto with a 1957 DeSoto! Knocked it about 20-30 feet. The only thing it did to the '55 was give it a matching set of dings in the metal bumper guards, to go with a set of dings it already had. Did nothing at all to my '57!

And I know the odds of an accident like that have got to be astronomical, but I was following a buddy to an antique car show, so that's how two cars of a brand that hadn't been built in over 30 years came to collide!
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