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Old 10-13-2008, 04:25 PM   #21
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Old 10-13-2008, 05:06 PM   #22
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Oldbabe, you are VERY scary when you set your mind to it!

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Old 10-13-2008, 05:11 PM   #23
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Bush resigns & moves to Paraguay - Cheney takes over, declares a national emergency, & cancels elections to be rescheduled at a later (unspecified) date.

How's that? Scare anyone?
Holy Cow!!! That's outright terrifying!

Good thing Bush can speak Spanish.

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Old 10-13-2008, 05:13 PM   #24
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Total market collapse despite massive avalanching of federal funds into failing concerns, and the latter results in 30,000% inflation and an 85% tax bracket and up for all. The government disintegrates but we don't even know it because nobody can afford electricity any more.

We are back to the stone age, eating ticks and grubs and fending off animals (human and otherwise) with rocks and sticks. No phones, no electricity, and to get water we have to hike down to the Mississippi River. But once we get there, gang members demand food in exchange for permission to fill our jugs with water. The weakest die of thirst.

After a few months everyone is exhausted, starved, thirsty, and half crazy. Disease is rampant and bodies are stacked in the streets. Then in come the invading armies from overseas...

Sorry!! I have a vivid imagination.
Sounds like my proficiency with a bow and arrow and ability to make beer and other fermented beverages will come in handy, then.

BTW, today was a brew day. Made a nice special bitter that will be dry hopped with some lovely English hops.
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Old 10-13-2008, 05:25 PM   #25
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Except that we are talking about FEMA. I suspect that they would probably end up with a small population in the camps consisting of the Oneonta, NY town dog catcher, the residents of a group home, and 3 or 4 befuddled elderly folks.
I have in my hand a little missive from FEMA - my 'free' purchased on my behalf by FEMA, Group Flood Insurance on that which was never replaced runs out three days before Halloween. By law I must keep - at my own expense - at least $28,800 - to qualify for future Federal assistance.

A lawyer type would read this as needing flood insurance(I'm on a big hill) to get Tornado help - the local disaster de jour.

heh heh heh -
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Old 10-13-2008, 05:28 PM   #26
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Oldbabe, you are VERY scary when you set your mind to it!

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I second that one! That chart makes me want to run screaming for the hills!

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Old 10-13-2008, 06:01 PM   #27
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Except that we are talking about FEMA. I suspect that they would probably end up with a small population in the camps consisting of the Oneonta, NY town dog catcher, the residents of a group home, and 3 or 4 befuddled elderly folks.
Well, they've still got all the trailers anyway. I know cause I drove by there the other day. It's an impressive sight.



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Old 10-13-2008, 07:26 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Want2retire View Post
Total market collapse despite massive avalanching of federal funds into failing concerns, and the latter results in 30,000% inflation and an 85% tax bracket and up for all. The government disintegrates but we don't even know it because nobody can afford electricity any more.

We are back to the stone age, eating ticks and grubs and fending off animals (human and otherwise) with rocks and sticks. No phones, no electricity, and to get water we have to hike down to the Mississippi River. But once we get there, gang members demand food in exchange for permission to fill our jugs with water. The weakest die of thirst.

After a few months everyone is exhausted, starved, thirsty, and half crazy. Disease is rampant and bodies are stacked in the streets. Then in come the invading armies from overseas...
i take it then no dirty bombing nuke attacks. so you could prepare by investing in a large parcel of land, not that you'll be able to claim the deed later, given collapse of the state, but so you can secretly install an underground storage unit for all the canned goods you'll use to exchange for water. i take it that for some reason you don't have any well water available there. your current funds will be sunk into survival & paramilitary training for yourself, land, construction of well-hidden shelter, i assume arms & meds, and plenty of canned goods.

with no dirty bombing, if the worst case scenario fails to materialize, you hold onto your land until the market recovers. you got rid of most all your cash because it would be worthless should the country collapse, but if the country might maintain itself you've still value in the land. the skills you invested in could be used to secure a job in the military or police state which might be set up to restore the union. while all the canned goods & meds can be sold back to fema at profit.
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Old 10-13-2008, 07:40 PM   #29
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i take it then no dirty bombing nuke attacks. so you could prepare by investing in a large parcel of land, not that you'll be able to claim the deed later, given collapse of the state, but so you can secretly install an underground storage unit for all the canned goods you'll use to exchange for water. i take it that for some reason you don't have any well water available there. your current funds will be sunk into survival & paramilitary training for yourself, land, construction of well-hidden shelter, i assume arms & meds, and plenty of canned goods.

with no dirty bombing, if the worst case scenario fails to materialize, you hold onto your land until the market recovers. you got rid of most all your cash because it would be worthless should the country collapse, but if the country might maintain itself you've still value in the land. the skills you invested in could be used to secure a job in the military or police state which might be set up to restore the union. while all the canned goods & meds can be sold back to fema at profit.
Though with total collapse of the government and currency, the concept of ownership itself no longer applies - - bands of marauders have wrested homes, land, and canned goods from the weak, who hide, cower, and sleep anywhere they can. Perhaps in the undergrowth; perhaps in drainage canals or in the abandoned homes of the dead. Troops from overseas who eventually invade don't need dirty bombs (people are dying of disease right and left without them). The best skills are the ability to hide and steal.

But then, once the invaders have set up their own government, we are back to the same rat-race as today, and the days of hunger and death are behind us as we participate in the new and growing economy. With a decimated population and fewer people to share the wealth, prosperity grows and life is better than before. ER forum members infiltrate the ruling class and wrest control. Moderator Appreciation Day is proclaimed a national holiday.
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Old 10-13-2008, 07:57 PM   #30
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Though with total collapse of the government and currency, the concept of ownership itself no longer applies - - bands of marauders have wrested homes, land, and canned goods from the weak, who hide, cower, and sleep anywhere they can. Perhaps in the undergrowth; perhaps in drainage canals or in the abandoned homes of the dead. Troops from overseas who eventually invade don't need dirty bombs (people are dying of disease right and left without them). The best skills are the ability to hide and steal.

But then, once the invaders have set up their own government, we are back to the same rat-race as today, and the days of hunger and death are behind us as we participate in the new and growing economy. With a decimated population and fewer people to share the wealth, prosperity grows and life is better than before. ER forum members infiltrate the ruling class and wrest control. Moderator Appreciation Day is proclaimed a national holiday.
What rituals shall be observed on Moderator Appreciation Day?
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Old 10-13-2008, 08:01 PM   #31
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What rituals shall be observed on Moderator Appreciation Day?
Gee, I don't know! Do you think tithing could be slipped in there? Perhaps backrubs and soft music.
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Old 10-13-2008, 08:19 PM   #32
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chocolate will be part of the rituals

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Old 10-13-2008, 08:23 PM   #33
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Sounds good to me!
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Old 10-14-2008, 05:16 PM   #34
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What rituals shall be observed on Moderator Appreciation Day?
I figure underpants on one's head kills more than one bird with a single stone...
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Old 10-14-2008, 05:27 PM   #35
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umm, Bin Laden launch a full force attack on the U.S. soil to free us from the Bush Regime. Then one of its soldiers hang a rope around the neck of the Status of Liberty and topple it using a tank, no, a Navy destroyer while the rest of the worst watches it on BinNN. Then Dick Cheney and Halliburton are hired for the rebuilding projects. The $trillion worth of bonds held by the Chinese gov became worthless overnight.
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The Executive Order
Old 10-14-2008, 06:03 PM   #36
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The Executive Order

Regarding this thread, I found this article (from a Conservative source, but not extremist, back in 1995). I thought it was VERY scary. BTW, it's real:

THE EXECUTIVE ORDER:
a Presidential Power not designated by the Constitution
By Harry V. Martin with research assistance from David Caul
Copyright FreeAmerica and Harry V. Martin, 1995

[Introduction deleted, due to length]
THE EXECUTIVE ORDER IN TIME OF WAR
Many of the fears of the founding fathers may now be coming to fruition. Today, the executive branch of the government is immensely powerful, much more powerful than the founding fathers had envisioned or wanted. Congressional legislative powers have been usurped. There is no greater example of that usurpation than in the form of the Presidential Executive Order. The process totally by-passes Congressional legislative authority and places in the hands of the President almost unilateral power. The Executive Order governs everything from the Flag Code of the United States to the ability to single-handedly declare Martial Law. Presidents have used the Executive Order in times of emergencies to override the Constitution of the United States and the Congress.
President Andrew Jackson used executive powers to force the law-abiding Cherokee Nation off their ancestral lands. The Cherokee fought the illegal action in the U.S. Supreme Court and won. But Jackson, using the power of the Presidency, continued to order the removal of the Cherokee Nation and defied the Court's ruling. He stated, "Let the Court try to enforce their ruling." The Cherokee lost their land and commenced a series of journeys that would be called The Trail of Tears.
President Abraham Lincoln suspended many fundamental rights guaranteed in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. He closed down newspapers opposed to his war-time policies and imprisoned what many historians now call political prisoners. He suspended the right of trial and the right to be confronted by accusers. Lincoln's justification for such drastic actions was the preservation of the Union above all things. After the war and Lincoln's death, Constitutional law was restored.
In 1917, President Woodrow Wilson could not persuade Congress to arm United States vessels plying hostile German waters before the United States entered World War One. When Congress balked, Wilson invoked the policy through a Presidential Executive Order.
President Franklin Delano Roosevelt issued Executive Order No. 9066 in December 1941. His order forced 100,000 Japanese residents in the United States to be rounded up and placed in concentration camps. The property of the Japanese was confiscated. Both Lincoln's and Roosevelt's actions were taken during wartime, when the very life of the United States was threatened. Wilson's action was taken on the eve of the United States entering World War One. Whether history judges these actions as just, proper or legal, the decision must be left to time. The dire life struggle associated with these actions provided plausible argumentation favoring their implementation during a time when hysteria ruled an age.
THE NEW DANGERS
A Presidential Executive Order, whether Constitutional or not, becomes law simply by its publication in the Federal Registry. Congress is by-passed. Here are just a few Executive Orders that would suspend the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. These Executive Orders have been on record for nearly 30 years and could be enacted by the stroke of a Presidential pen:
  • EXECUTIVE ORDER 10990 allows the government to take over all modes of transportation and control of highways and seaports.
  • EXECUTIVE ORDER 10995 allows the government to seize and control the communication media.
  • EXECUTIVE ORDER 10997 allows the government to take over all electrical power, gas, petroleum, fuels and minerals.
  • EXECUTIVE ORDER 10998 allows the government to take over all food resources and farms.
  • EXECUTIVE ORDER 11000 allows the government to mobilize civilians into work brigades under government supervision.
  • EXECUTIVE ORDER 11001 allows the government to take over all health, education and welfare functions.
  • EXECUTIVE ORDER 11002 designates the Postmaster General to operate a national registration of all persons.
  • EXECUTIVE ORDER 11003 allows the government to take over all airports and aircraft, including commercial aircraft.
  • EXECUTIVE ORDER 11004 allows the Housing and Finance Authority to relocate communities, build new housing with public funds, designate areas to be abandoned, and establish new locations for populations.
  • EXECUTIVE ORDER 11005 allows the government to take over railroads, inland waterways and public storage facilities.
  • EXECUTIVE ORDER 11051 specifies the responsibility of the Office of Emergency Planning and gives authorization to put all Executive Orders into effect in times of increased international tensions and economic or financial crisis.
  • EXECUTIVE ORDER 11310 grants authority to the Department of Justice to enforce the plans set out in Executive Orders, to institute industrial support, to establish judicial and legislative liaison, to control all aliens, to operate penal and correctional institutions, and to advise and assist the President.
Without Congressional approval, the President now has the power to transfer whole populations to any part of the country, the power to suspend the Press and to force a national registration of all persons. The President, in essence, has dictatorial powers never provided to him under the Constitution. The President has the power to suspend the Constitution and the Bill of Rights in a real or perceived emergency. Unlike Lincoln and Roosevelt, these powers are not derived from a wartime need, but from any crisis, domestic or foreign, hostile or economic. Roosevelt created extraordinary measures during the Great Depression, but any President faced with a similar, or lesser, economic crisis now has extraordinary powers to assume dictatorial status.
Many of the Executive Orders cited here have been on the books for over a quarter of a century and have not been applied. Therefore, what makes them more dangerous today than yesteryear? There has been a steady, consistent series of new Executive Orders, originating from President Richard Nixon and added to by Presidents Ronald Reagan, Jimmy Carter and George Bush that provide an ominous Orwellian portrait, the portrait of George Orwell's 1984.
THE EROSION OF INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS
A series of Executive Orders, internal governmental departmental laws, unpassed by Congress, the Anti-Drug Abuse Act of 1988 and the Violent Crime Control Act of 1991, has whittled down Constitutional law substantially. These new Executive Orders and Congressional Acts allow for the construction of concentration camps, suspension of rights and the ability of the President to declare Martial Law in the event of a drug crisis. Congress will have no power to prevent the Martial Law declaration and can only review the process six months after Martial Law has been declared. The most critical Executive Order was issued on August 1, 1971. Nixon signed both a proclamation and Executive Order 11615. Proclamation No. 4074 states, "I hereby declare a national emergency", thus establishing an economic crisis. That national emergency order has not been rescinded.
The crisis that changed the direction of governmental thinking was the anti-Vietnam protests. Fear that such demonstrations might explode into civil unrest, Executive Orders began to be created to allow extreme measures to be implemented to curtail the demonstrations. The recent Los Angeles riots after the Rodney King jury verdict only reinforced the government's concern about potential civil unrest and the need to have an effective mechanism to curtail such demonstrations.
Here are the later Executive Orders:
  • EXECUTIVE ORDER 11049 assigns emergency preparedness function to federal departments and agencies, consolidating 21 operative Executive Orders issued over a fifteen year period.
  • EXECUTIVE ORDER 11921 allows the Federal Emergency Preparedness Agency to develop plans to establish control over the mechanisms of production and distribution, of energy sources, wages, salaries, credit and the flow of money in U.S. financial institution in any undefined national emergency. It also provides that when a state of emergency is declared by the President, Congress cannot review the action for six months.
  • EXECUTIVE ORDER 12148 created the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) that is to interface with the Department of Defense for civil defense planning and funding. An "emergency czar" was appointed. FEMA has only spent about 6 percent of its budget on national emergencies, the bulk of their funding has been used for the construction of secret underground facilities to assure continuity of government in case of a major emergency, foreign or domestic.
  • EXECUTIVE ORDER 12656 appointed the National Security Council as the principal body that should consider emergency powers. This allows the government to increase domestic intelligence and surveillance of U.S. citizens and would restrict the freedom of movement within the United States and granted the government the right to isolate large groups of civilians. The National Guard could be federalized to seal all borders and take control of U.S. air space and all ports of entry. Many of the figures in the Iran-Contra scandal were part of this emergency contingent, including Marine Colonel Oliver North.
The Federal Emergency Management Agency has broad powers in every aspect of the nation. General Frank Salzedo, chief of FEMA's Civil Security Division stated in a 1983 conference that he saw FEMA's role as a "new frontier in the protection of individual and governmental leaders from assassination, and of civil and military installations from sabotage and/or attack, as well as prevention of dissident groups from gaining access to U.S. opinion, or a global audience in times of crisis."
The Violent Crime Control Act of 1991 provides additional powers to the President of the United States, allowing the suspension of the Constitution and Constitutional rights of Americans during a "drug crisis". It provides for the construction of detention camps, seizure of property, and military control of populated areas. This, teamed with the Executive Orders of the President, enables Orwellian prophecies to rest on whoever occupies the White House. The power provided by these "laws" allows suspension of the Constitution and the rights guaranteed in the Bill of Rights during any civil disturbances, major demonstrations and strikes and allows the military to implement government ordered movements of civilian populations at state and regional levels, the arrest of certain unidentified segments of the population, and the imposition of Martial Law.
When the Constitution of the United States was framed it placed the exclusive legislative authority in the hands of Congress and with the President. Article I, Section 1 of the United States Constitution is concise in its language, "All legislative powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives." That is no longer true. The Bill of Rights protected Americans against loss of freedoms. That is no longer true. The Constitution provided for a balanced separation of powers. That is no longer applicable.
Perhaps it can be summed up succinctly in the words of arch-conservative activist Howard J. Ruff. "Since the enactment of Executive Order 11490, the only thing standing between us and dictatorship is the good character of the President, and the lack of a crisis severe enough that the public would stand still for it."
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Old 10-14-2008, 06:17 PM   #37
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Stop this nonsense. Let's all look at the title, Halloween folks.

So, get your costume (I've decided to go as a professional football player), and at 6 o'clock start going door to door. Now if you're lucky you'll find the people who offer adults (that fits some of us, no?) with a beer or glass of wine.....otherwise, lets hope for the good candy...like snickers bars and the m&m packets. The worst case scenario clear is................an


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Old 10-14-2008, 06:24 PM   #38
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OK Scoot you win. I read all of that stuff FEMA is allowed to do in an emergency and then thought back on some of the guys that have been appointed to run that agency. That should be enough to keep me up at night.
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Old 10-14-2008, 06:57 PM   #39
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Continuing economic crisis leads to food and fuel shortages as states go bankrupt. Civil unrest as a result. Government declares martial law, gives FEMA control, who then start rounding people up in internment camps "for their own safety." Bush cancels elections, declares himself First Monarch of the North American Union, and introduces the Amero.

And then the zombies show up.
This one scared me the most FEMA, Bush and zombies.
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Old 10-14-2008, 07:08 PM   #40
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Stop this nonsense. Let's all look at the title, Halloween folks.

So, get your costume (I've decided to go as a professional football player), and at 6 o'clock start going door to door. Now if you're lucky you'll find the people who offer adults (that fits some of us, no?) with a beer or glass of wine.....otherwise, lets hope for the good candy...like snickers bars and the m&m packets. The worst case scenario clear is................an


I plan on going as the neighborhood drunk. It won't be hard to fake and I can buy my own damn candy.

"Screw the candy! Just fill the funnel sticking into my mouth (and not with urine, resident sickos)!"
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