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Old 06-24-2015, 09:26 AM   #61
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I believe that's the "plan" for covering long-term care expenses for a majority of the population
It's the only practical way for most people. Even those with pretty substantial means. You might say it's what the marketplace driven us to.
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Old 06-24-2015, 10:48 AM   #62
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I failed in that I don't have much in savings for emergencies. I have a large amount for a specific purpose that I am not spending, expecting to be using it in 6 months or so. It will secure me a great place to live for not much output - a limited equity co-op.

But I paid part of my retirement account to buy years of service so I could retire earlier. I thought I could recoup it and then some but it was 2008 and my plans went wonky. I left with an amount that I was able to pay off debt and put the money aside for my co-op.

I should have SAVED way more in my liquid account. I know I am spender and I still went ahead and spent. I have a pension so I have enough money coming in to live and have spending money as well as savings but nowhere near what I would be more comfortable with.

My lifestyle has changed in that I don't spend wildly, but I have been hit with some car accidents, vet bills, that are stretching me now. So yes, I was stupid there but I am managing.

I am working on some options - part time work that I could stand, refi my car. I don't have an extravagant lifestyle, just a bit too spendy for me.
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Old 06-24-2015, 11:10 AM   #63
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If ACA gets totally destroyed along with the pre-existing condition exclusion coming back, then we also may need to return to work.
If this happens I would be back to work for certain. I get my HC from DH's plan and ACA is my backup. I'd be a nervous wreck without a backup HC plan. I don't know if this means I'd "fail" ER but if it does, so be it.
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Old 06-24-2015, 12:01 PM   #64
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We shall see. IRA took a big hit since Nov and DW is resisting downsizing. I am looking for work. Not failed, but can see difficulties down the road.

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Old 06-24-2015, 12:16 PM   #65
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2.4% SWR, three pensions, and you decided to go back to work?

Well, I can understand the ACA making the difference though. Healthcare could change a 2.5% SWR to a 4% or higher SWR in a heartbeat (without ACA).

If ACA gets totally destroyed along with the pre-existing condition exclusion coming back, then we also may need to return to work. I do not think I would be comfortable paying $3000 a month for healthcare on our portfolio if one of us developed a serious condition that made us practically uninsurable.
Going back to work for a few years (6.5) allowed me to be able to sleep at night. The 24K annual budget was literally what we spent, it did not really have much padding for either fun stuff like travel or not so fun stuff like big house repairs or catastrophic medical bills. We are keeping our spending low this year and probably next year just to get a feel for ER. After that we will likely give ourselves the option of increasing our spending to 2 - 2.5% SWR. Yes, we are worrywarts.

The ACA made a huge difference for us both in terms of keeping the premiums from getting totally out of control and removing the pre-existing condition exclusion. Even though I keep myself pretty healthy (daily jogger, vegetarian, BMI 21) I have a couple of small health issues that don't require anything but occasional monitoring. I was afraid that if I ever got sick, I could be kicked off my insurance because of those conditions.
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Old 06-24-2015, 01:40 PM   #66
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My extreme fallback plan in the case where we were unable to get insurance because ACA gets revoked AND we are unable to find employment with coverage is to go without insurance and draw down only from non-retirement accounts.

In this way we could maintain our 401K and IRA nestegg and declare bankruptcy after medical bills pile up, then start taking small drawdowns from our retirement plans and declare bankruptcy again in a couple of years. I think in most states you have at least a million dollars protected from essentially all creditors (except divorce, IRS, and child support) if those funds are in a 401K.

This plan would at least keep us from eating the dreaded cat food in our 60s and 70s.
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Old 06-24-2015, 01:46 PM   #67
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I failed in that I don't have much in savings for emergencies. I have a large amount for a specific purpose that I am not spending, expecting to be using it in 6 months or so. It will secure me a great place to live for not much output - a limited equity co-op.

But I paid part of my retirement account to buy years of service so I could retire earlier. I thought I could recoup it and then some but it was 2008 and my plans went wonky. I left with an amount that I was able to pay off debt and put the money aside for my co-op.

I should have SAVED way more in my liquid account. I know I am spender and I still went ahead and spent. I have a pension so I have enough money coming in to live and have spending money as well as savings but nowhere near what I would be more comfortable with.

My lifestyle has changed in that I don't spend wildly, but I have been hit with some car accidents, vet bills, that are stretching me now. So yes, I was stupid there but I am managing.

I am working on some options - part time work that I could stand, refi my car. I don't have an extravagant lifestyle, just a bit too spendy for me.

I retired similarly in the fact that I stole a huge chuck of my money (almost 100k) to buy 4 service years to retire earlier. I told myself however the punishment was you had to find other gigs to repay it. I mostly did these past 5 years and I have saved way better than I thought I would. Plus I havent had too many financial disasters except for paying for an unplanned roof a few years ago.
Instead of belaboring the fact the tax man will collect a disproportional toll on a small paying job (thanks to the pension), you may want to think of it this way. Lets just throw out a number and say you have $500 disposable dollars after pension. If a PT job nets you $500 after taxes you have increased your disposable income dollars a 100%. That is a big increase in disposable dollars despite the tax implications. You always mentioned a desire to spend. Maybe thinking about the tremendous upside in disposable income not taxes or total net income increase can motivate you to a PT if this is the direction you want to go.


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Old 06-24-2015, 01:54 PM   #68
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We semi-ERed (no more group health insurance rates) and budgeted for ~$1K a month for premiums, our COBRA premiums. Then we got a letter one day our COBRA premiums were more than doubling for less coverage, and we already had a high deductible. The post COBRA plan was even worse. With pre-existing conditions we were pretty much stuck. Pay the rates or get a full-time job with group coverage, possibly taking a job away from somebody else who might have really needed the paycheck and not just insurance coverage.

ACA rates have been a pleasant budget helper. I hope they stay. At least if we lost them now it will probably be just the two of us to insure and we'll be closer to Medicare age.

The whole idea of losing health insurance when you leave a job makes no more sense than losing your car insurance or cable TV. Plus for people unemployed involuntarily, they get a double whammy - no job and no affordable health insurance.

I hope we never go back to having health insurance tied to employment again.
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Old 06-24-2015, 01:57 PM   #69
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My extreme fallback plan in the case where we were unable to get insurance because ACA gets revoked AND we are unable to find employment with coverage is to go without insurance and draw down only from non-retirement accounts.

In this way we could maintain our 401K and IRA nestegg and declare bankruptcy after medical bills pile up, then start taking small drawdowns from our retirement plans and declare bankruptcy again in a couple of years. I think in most states you have at least a million dollars protected from essentially all creditors (except divorce, IRS, and child support) if those funds are in a 401K.

This plan would at least keep us from eating the dreaded cat food in our 60s and 70s.

Ugh...Your extreme scenario fall back plan would scare me as I would not even have that option. I have been screwed every which direction from ACA from its beginning. It would be fitting this scenario would hit me too. I guess my only choice is reading medical books from the 1700s to maximize the use of leeches and whiskey for any malady that would hit me.


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Old 06-24-2015, 04:27 PM   #70
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We shall see. IRA took a big hit since Nov and DW is resisting downsizing. I am looking for work. Not failed, but can see difficulties down the road.

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Why was IRA impacted since November ? Whats your asset allocation and asset class ? Hopefully not Greek bonds or Rouble FX swaps ...
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Old 06-24-2015, 04:33 PM   #71
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. I have been screwed every which direction from ACA from its beginning. It would be fitting this scenario would hit me too.

Why /what did you get impacted by as result of ACA ?
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Old 06-24-2015, 04:57 PM   #72
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Why /what did you get impacted by as result of ACA ?

Was told [mod edit].....Leeches and whiskey here I come!


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Old 06-24-2015, 05:00 PM   #73
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Leeches and whiskey here I come!
I understand the medicinal value of whiskey, but I don't get why you'd want to associate with annuity salesmen....
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Old 06-24-2015, 05:12 PM   #74
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I understand the medicinal value of whiskey, but I don't get why you'd want to associate with annuity salesmen....

They only charge a 2% yearly fee of portfolio value for unlimited use of leeches. Cheaper than a $15k a year policy with 5k deductible!


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Old 06-24-2015, 06:11 PM   #75
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I "failed" in that I went back to work when a low stress gig fell into my lap that's just a few miles from where I live.
That's what I did too. Easy job, 3.4 mile commute, it was rare that I couldn't get a day off when I wanted and pay was way over normal for the job. When it went south I was happy to be in a position to quit. Out of 48 people 19 quit. I felt bad for the ones who had no choice but to stay because when I say it "went south" it was really bad, I would have quit then anyway even without the pay cut.

We banked ~70% of the money and are now slowly drawing down on that to put off applying for SS which I will do next spring at FRA instead of 62 as originally planned and we'll still have most of it left. So it's all good.

I wouldn't call it a "fail" though, more like a change in plans. Keeping the post-retirement job was always optional, I could quit when I wanted, and when I wanted to I did.
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Old 06-24-2015, 06:21 PM   #76
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Mulligan, you don't have funds in a protected account like a 401K or Roth IRA? Why would bankruptcy not be an option to protect your retirement accounts in the event you are forced to go without insurance because of pre-existing conditions?

While your premium increase does sound harsh, I was thinking more along the lines of having to pay $3,000 to $5,000 per month for insurance because one of us developed a severe condition.

I guess pre-ACA there was no early retirement option at all for someone with a pre-existing condition who did not have a gubmit or military retiree health plan. I felt as if ACA evened things out a bit.
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Old 06-24-2015, 06:45 PM   #77
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Was told [mod edit].....Leeches and whiskey here I come!


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You weren't screwed by ACA as so much by [mod edit]... once that pans out you'll get your leeches.


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Old 06-25-2015, 02:43 AM   #78
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You weren't screwed by ACA as so much by [mod edit]... once that pans out you'll get your leeches.


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Its unfortunate that the ACA will never get a fair shot to work nationwide.

A 5 year ACA run with all the states fully cooperating would have been nice to see. But I guess we will never know.
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Old 06-25-2015, 07:06 AM   #79
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An interesting article (also rather long) that tries to answer the question of what the work world will look like in the future for the USA.








A World Without Work - The Atlantic
A science fiction book, written in 1939, describes such a place and an economic scheme that supported it: For Us, the Living: A Comedy of Customs by Robert Heinlein. It includes a description of the leisure force and an internet-like technology.
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Old 06-25-2015, 07:40 AM   #80
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A science fiction book, written in 1939, describes such a place and an economic scheme that supported it: For Us, the Living: A Comedy of Customs by Robert Heinlein. It includes a description of the leisure force and an internet-like technology.
I could see a day when robotic technology progresses to the point that the basic needs of food and shelter could be met with very few actual human workers (automated farms, autonomous vehicles, 3D printed houses)

We could all just don our haptic suits and live in some virtual fantasy world while getting Lays potato chips through an IV.

Sounds fun.
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