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Re: Health Insurance
Old 08-12-2006, 11:20 AM   #21
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Re: Health Insurance


We all should have medical coverage here in the greatest country on earth right?
"The greatest country on earth" doesn't measure up statistically in any quality of life category when compared with other industrialized countries.

Check it out.
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Re: Health Insurance
Old 08-12-2006, 02:33 PM   #22
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Re: Health Insurance

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3 Yrs to Go
Boo Hoo!

Where in the Constitution does it say you should be entitled to retire early and live off of the productive labor of your fellow citizens?
Not in those words. However, the Constitution does prohibit the government from depriving its citizens of their property without due process of law. So that if one is able to earn/save enough to generate an sufficient income to support oneself, that property cannot be taken away by the government without due process of law.

There is no "right" to retire early, or even to retire at all, in the Constitution. The best laid plans may fail miserably at some point. But the government cannot simply take away property, which is the basis, at least economically and fiancially, of retirement.
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Re: Health Insurance
Old 08-13-2006, 09:05 AM   #23
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Re: Health Insurance

Quote:
Originally Posted by razztazz
And we dont need to settle for somebody else who doesnt work (or their dupes and useful burn-out idiots like you) to rig the game to keep the rest of us working. I am for progress and moving forward. Less work.


This is a joke, right?

Presumably you are in favor of national health care?* Did it ever occur to you that some one has to provide and pay for that service?* Did it ever occur to you that in a country with a national system the retiree is getting his health care paid for by the tax dollars of those still working?*

The joke is that you seem to want a system rigged in favor of the wealthy (like those who populate early retirement message boards) where "free" health care is provided to the non-working from the tax dollars of those who continue to work.* Furthermore, by raising taxes on labor to provide "free" services to "early retirees" it makes the goal of retirement that much harder for others to achieve.

Isn't a more equitable system one in which people pay for the services they consume - regardless of whether they are working or retired?



Edit / disclaimer: After re-reading razztazz comment I realized I have no idea what he is trying to say.
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Re: Health Insurance
Old 08-13-2006, 09:13 AM   #24
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Re: Health Insurance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy

Even if you get into cheaper health insurance because you currently don't have any health concerns, that can change.* As the well people in that group move because they can get something else less expensive, the pool you are in shrinks and your rates start rising rapidly.* That has happen to me also.
This is an excellent point and a big problem with individual insurance. *

Keep in mind that you have more rights under HIPAA when moving from group coverage to individual coverage. Other than in guaranteed issue states, in most states *you have next to no rights when moving from an individual policy to another individual policy. *For example, if you buy an individual policy with exclusions and you develop a serious problem related to the excluded condition, most likely you would have a six month pre-existing condition exclusion if you moved to the risk pool for coverage of the condition. *Also, some risk pools don't allow you to join simply because your rates on the individual market are sky high and not affordable, but you could have joined *that pool when you were HIPAA eligible. *If you want to move from one individual plan to another which is not a risk pool plan, likely you can be turned down for any reason and charged any amount of money.

I suggest when shopping for individual insurance you be at least aware what protections you have under the law of your particular state. *The Georgetown guide is the best source at www.healthinsuranceinfo.net.

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Re: Health Insurance
Old 08-13-2006, 02:42 PM   #25
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Re: Health Insurance

Martha has some excellent points.

In my state - Washington - we are able to move from our employeer's plan to an individual plan without underwriting (filling out "the questionaire" which would automatically kick me into the state risk pool). But once you get the individual plan, you are stuck with it. If you decide for any reason it's not working for you - tough luck! I'm going to have some serious research to do before I FIRE. Making this decision scares the crap out of me, when I think about how high the stakes are.
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Re: Health Insurance
Old 08-13-2006, 03:42 PM   #26
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Re: Health Insurance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheryl
Martha has some excellent points.* *

In my state - Washington - we are able to move from our employeer's plan to an individual plan without underwriting (filling out "the questionaire" which would automatically kick me into the state risk pool).* *But once you get the individual plan, you are stuck with it.* If you decide for any reason it's not working for you - tough luck!* * I'm going to have some serious research to do before I FIRE.* Making this decision scares the crap out of me, when I think about how high the stakes are.*
Maybe I should move back "home." Unless I missed something, Texas doesn't keep the insurance companies from demanding the forms be filled. That throws lots of people into the high risk pool.

When Bush was governor of Texas he signed the bill that rearranged the private insurance industry to conform to federal mandates. Although the governor is "weak" by the Texas constitution, he didn't do anything to keep the best deal possible go the insurance companies.

A few questions -- Can someone sign up for health insurance in one state and be a resident of another? If someone becomes a resident of a state, can they later move and keep their original state's insurance?

I'm getting close to ER but the medical insurance issue is becoming a bigger part of the equation.
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Re: Health Insurance
Old 08-13-2006, 03:49 PM   #27
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Re: Health Insurance

Here is where I found info on WA:

http://tinyurl.com/ne2ee


I didn't realize how lucky I am to live in this state. I would "flunk" the questionnaire, no doubt about it. Following quote is what I am relying on, but the 90 day limit worries me, based on the time frames others have quoted on this thread.

You will not have to complete the Health Screen Questionnaire if you:

Have exhausted your COBRA coverage if application is made within 90 days of exhausting COBRA coverage. (You may apply for the new plan up to 90 days before your COBRA coverage will terminate.)


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Re: Health Insurance
Old 08-13-2006, 04:14 PM   #28
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Re: Health Insurance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheryl
Here is where I found info on WA:
Following quote is what I am relying on, but the 90 day limit worries me, based on the time frames others have quoted on this thread.

You will not have to complete the Health Screen Questionnaire if you:

Have exhausted your COBRA coverage if application is made within 90 days of exhausting COBRA coverage. (You may apply for the new plan up to 90 days before your COBRA coverage will terminate.)
I went through this procedure about one year ago. It was quick and painless. Since they are not underwriting you, I was told and it turned out to be true that it usually took less than one month to get coverage.

I took Regence Blue-Shield. I also worked through a broker, which I think has some advantages, and costs nothing.

Ha
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Re: Health Insurance
Old 08-13-2006, 04:52 PM   #29
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Re: Health Insurance

Quote:
Originally Posted by HaHa
I went through this procedure about one year ago. It was quick and painless. Since they are not underwriting you, I was told and it turned out to be true that it usually took less than one month to get coverage.

I took Regence Blue-Shield. I also worked through a broker, which I think has some advantages, and costs nothing.

Ha
I went on the website but it didn't do much for linking costs and application procedure. What type of money are you paying and for what coverage? The Texas high risk pool is about $7,000 per year with a $5,000 deductible -- per person.

Texas doesn't care if you are HIPPA.
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Re: Health Insurance
Old 08-13-2006, 05:28 PM   #30
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Re: Health Insurance

I went through a pretty detailed analysis of the various high-risk offerings available in WA. There is much variation, depending on type of plan (PPO or HMO), specific situation (how long in the plan, how long prior coverage was, etc.) and deductible.

I assumed I would spend the entire deducible, and analyzed the cost based on monthly payments plus annual deductible. I concluded I would be paying between $5,700 a year for a PPO plan with $2,500 deductible and $7,050 for a "regular" plan with a $1,500 deductible.

A "regular" plan with a $500 deductible cost over $9,000. I couldn't see any point in buying the low deductible plan, when it costs so much more.

When the time comes I'll look closer at the PPO option, but having established relationships with several specialists, I doubt I will do it, if it means I have to start all over with new providers. I also have to look at prescription coverage closer at that time.

I have a nifty spreadsheet if anyone in WA wants it.
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Re: Health Insurance
Old 08-13-2006, 05:35 PM   #31
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Re: Health Insurance

Sheryl,

I think Washington has a winner for me. If your numbers are with the deductible it's well below what I would pay. I could move in with my sister in Belllingham and be a done deal. How does the coverage transfer out of state. I intend to be the proverbial rolling stone.

2B
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Re: Health Insurance
Old 08-13-2006, 06:07 PM   #32
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Re: Health Insurance

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2B

Texas doesn't care if you are HIPPA.
I believe that the Texas risk pool recently changed its rules so that if you can get insurance from a carrier, even if it is incredibly expensive, you can't get in the pool unless you are HIPAA eligible.* Also, I believe that there is a pre-existing condition waiting period unless you are HIPAA eligibile.
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Re: Health Insurance
Old 08-13-2006, 06:28 PM   #33
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Re: Health Insurance

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2B
*

.

A few questions -- Can someone sign up for health insurance in one state and be a resident of another?* If someone becomes a resident of a state, can they later move and keep their original state's insurance?

I'm getting close to ER but the medical insurance issue is becoming a bigger part of the equation.

Not yet.* There has been some talk in Congress about allowing insurance companies sell across state lines products not approved by the customer's state of residence.* The lastest attempt to do this died in commitee this year. States do not like the idea because consumer protections of their states will be lost.


Some people travel a lot.* We plan to keep Minnesota our state of residence.* So long as we do that we can be covered by the Minnesota risk pool.* *Fortunately, the Minnesota pool insurance provider covers you when you happen to be out of state.* Not all polices do that: HMOs by way of example.* IIRC, Wisconsin's risk pool only will cover you for emergencies when you are out of state.* Other companies will cover a smaller percentage of the cost of care.* Many plans are* prefered provider 80/20 plans and if you are out of network, maybe you will only get 60% of the charges the insurer would have approved.* This number may be a lot smaller than actual charges.
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Re: Health Insurance
Old 08-14-2006, 09:23 AM   #34
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Re: Health Insurance

Quote:
Originally Posted by razztazz
And where does it say in the Constitution that we all should have medical insurance, anyway? And by the same token where does it say in the Constitution that we all shouldn't be able to have it? (They never answer that question?)
Since the Constittuion gives the federal government power, if it doesn't give it the power to provide something then the government technicallly can't do it. The closest thing the Constitiution states about providing health insurance is "promoting the general welfare" of the state. I know promoting something and providing something are two very different things. Unfortunately the courts seem to beleive providing and promoting are the same.

So to answer your question, strictly speaking the Constituion does not forbid the people from having universal health care, but it does not grant the federal government the power provide it.
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Re: Health Insurance
Old 08-14-2006, 09:43 AM   #35
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Re: Health Insurance

2B

If you have a policy with Blue Cross/Blue Shield, they have coverage through a program called BlueCard. It can be used by travelers or people living in a different state from where their coverage resides (Home plan).

It offers the subscriber the negotiated rate of a preferred provider (assuming they choose a preferred BC/BS provider) when obtaining services out of their normal coverage area. It is beneficial for both the subscriber and the Plan and is mandated as being a BC/BS plan.
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Re: Health Insurance
Old 08-14-2006, 09:52 AM   #36
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Re: Health Insurance

Quote:
Originally Posted by lets-retire
Since the Constittuion gives the federal government power, if it doesn't give it the power to provide something then the government technicallly can't do it.* The closest thing the Constitiution states about providing health insurance is "promoting the general welfare" of the state.* I know promoting something and providing something are two very different things.* Unfortunately the courts seem to beleive providing and promoting are the same.

So to answer your question, strictly speaking the Constituion does not forbid the people from having universal health care, but it does not grant the federal government the power provide it.*
The 10th amendment to the Constitution provides that powers not specifically granted to the federal government are reserved for the states or the people.* So, when the federal goverment seeks to establish a new program it must find a basis for the program in the Constitution.*
There are two possibilites.* One is the commerce clause which gives the federal government the power to regulate commerce among the states.* The other is what you mentioned, the broad power to levy taxes and expend funds to provide for the general welfare.* I believe it was this provision which authorized social security, which was held supported by constitutional authority by the Supreme Court at the time Roosevelt was President.* If social security (and medicare) is constitutional, I have no question that a national health insurance program would be constitutional.
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Re: Health Insurance
Old 08-14-2006, 09:56 AM   #37
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Re: Health Insurance

Well, *the issue just become temporarily moot for the time being. *I accepted a one-year job and came out of my four-month retirement. My wife will be on the insurance of my employer since there are no excemptions for pre-existing conditions. *However, in another year or two, I will be back looking for insurance. *Her conditions are all pretty minor, and perhaps in the meantime we can get a better description of them so they do not look so bad on paper when we appy again. *

The idea of insurance is to share the risk. *My wife and I have been pretty healthy and paying into insurance for 35 years. *Seems now is the time to get the benefits of sharing that risk, but not seem to work that way. * Used to work in a welfare office many many years ago. *I saw a fair number of both working class and middle class folks reduced to poverty because of health care costs. *If you think it cannot happen to you, think again. *Even if you have Medicare coverage, just look at what it does not cover regarding both certain conditions and long term care. *
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Re: Health Insurance
Old 08-14-2006, 10:07 AM   #38
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Re: Health Insurance

Martha--I think I wasn't clear.* I have no doubt the courts will find universal health care Constitutional, but I think it's because they are reading provide when what is written is promote.

Bookman--Congrats kind of.* Your health care issue is resolved, but your w@rking again.
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Re: Health Insurance
Old 08-14-2006, 10:20 AM   #39
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Re: Health Insurance

Quote:
Originally Posted by lets-retire
Martha--I think I wasn't clear.* I have no doubt the courts will find universal health care Constitutional, but I think it's because they are reading provide when what is written is promote.

Bookman--Congrats kind of.* Your health care issue is resolved, but your w@rking again.
The specific language reads in article I, section 8:
The Congress shall have Power to lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defense and general Welfare of the United States.

It is the preamble which talks about promoting the general welfare as one of the reasons to have a constitution.


I understood where you are coming from.* There has been a tension in constitional interpretation since it was drafted.* The draftsmen even argued about it.

Bookman, good luck on insurance for your wife when you job ends.*
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Re: Health Insurance
Old 08-14-2006, 10:31 AM   #40
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Re: Health Insurance

Quote:
Originally Posted by lets-retire
Since the Constittuion gives the federal government power, if it doesn't give it the power to provide something then the government technicallly can't do it. The closest thing the Constitiution states about providing health insurance is "promoting the general welfare" of the state. I know promoting something and providing something are two very different things. Unfortunately the courts seem to beleive providing and promoting are the same.

So to answer your question, strictly speaking the Constituion does not forbid the people from having universal health care, but it does not grant the federal government the power provide it.
I'll stick my nose in a bit: It seems to me that "promoting the general welfare" might/could allow for universal healthcare. If part of the general welfare is having healthy folks/citizens, then it is easier to see the thinking: providing universal healthcare promotes the general welfare. I believe this is how we've always operated in this country,e.g. provide the interstate highway system to promote the general welfare. Ahhh . . . but the tensions.
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