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Re: Health Insurance
Old 08-14-2006, 11:23 AM   #41
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Re: Health Insurance

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I'll stick my nose in a bit: It seems to me that "promoting the general welfare" might/could allow for universal healthcare. If part of the general welfare is having healthy folks/citizens, then it is easier to see the thinking: providing universal healthcare promotes the general welfare. I believe this is how we've always operated in this country,e.g. provide the interstate highway system to promote the general welfare. Ahhh . . . but the tensions
Not only that but the 10th amendment basically is the right to call an audible. The Federal Gov cannot, and certainly ought not, just pop off and do-dis and do-dat. Yeah, there is that restriction on how it's supposed to go. If I were president or a Senator I would approach every problem with What would happen if we did nothing? and take it from there. But that does not mean we ought to do nothing.
But of course in the end The People maintain the right to have done whatever it is they wish done.

Means and methods are also thiers. And charging The People's perfectly legitmate instrument, The Government, with the responsibility to "Get it done" is not in violation of anything. To maintain otherwise would be a violation of history and the Will of The People.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

Some will make all kinds of silly arguments of an administrative or grammatical nature suggesting that it says "The People" and "The States" and therefor the Federal Gov is somehow not allowed to do certain things and they should be laughed at. The Gov is the people. And as some are given to saying: The Constitution is not a suicide pact" It is there to permit the People to get things not prevent them. Only those with an agenda or insidious ulterior motive would wpuld suggets otherwise.
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Re: Health Insurance
Old 08-14-2006, 11:30 AM   #42
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Re: Health Insurance

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Originally Posted by Martha
The specific language reads in article I, section 8:
The Congress shall have Power to lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defense and general Welfare of the United States.

It is the preamble which talks about promoting the general welfare as one of the reasons to have a constitution.


I understood where you are coming from.* There has been a tension in constitional interpretation since it was drafted.* The draftsmen even argued about it.

Bookman, good luck on insurance for your wife when you job ends.*
Thanks on the good luck. *I will need it. *

Regarding the Constitutional issue and universal health insurance, that is a red herring. *Enough said.

*
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Re: Health Insurance
Old 08-14-2006, 11:46 AM   #43
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Re: Health Insurance

Yes, sorry Bookman, we kept falling off track on your insurance questions, and dropping into politics.

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Re: Health Insurance
Old 08-14-2006, 11:52 AM   #44
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Re: Health Insurance

razztazz:

I certainly wasn't looking for an argument, and I'm about as far from a Constitution expert as can be. (I've reformed. Wahoo! and unclemick have won me over to a 'sweetie." ) But I do think that all constitutions are simply flow charts, diagrams as such, for consiousness. What I mean is, for example, something is planned or decided or noticed and the Constitution simply tells it, the human consciousness, where to go for a fix: the Senate, Congress, Supreme Court, or, maybe back to the state. Something has to be there to make sure that particlars can be generalized ("provide":"promote") or the reverse. Enough said!
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Re: Health Insurance
Old 08-14-2006, 12:11 PM   #45
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Re: Health Insurance

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Originally Posted by Martha
The 10th amendment to the Constitution provides that powers not specifically granted to the federal government are reserved for the states or the people.* So, when the federal goverment seeks to establish a new program it must find a basis for the program in the Constitution.*

There are two possibilites.* One is the commerce clause which gives the federal government the power to regulate commerce among the states.* The other is what you mentioned, the broad power to levy taxes and expend funds to provide for the general welfare.* I believe it was this provision which authorized social security, which was held supported by constitutional authority by the Supreme Court at the time Roosevelt was President.* If social security (and medicare) is constitutional, I have no question that a national health insurance program would be constitutional.
Sure, the clash between the Supreme Court and the FDR administration in the 1930s resulted in a significantly more expansive interpretation of the commerse clause and a much larger role for the federal government in the economic sphere. However, although there is currently no substantial faction within the Supreme Court that would advocate returning to the pre-New Deal interpretation, the Supremes have been generally more willing to listen to state rights arguments in the last 10-15 years. In other words, it's my considered opinion that the answer to the question is "Who knows?"*
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Re: Health Insurance
Old 08-14-2006, 12:20 PM   #46
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Re: Health Insurance

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Originally Posted by Apocalypse . . .um . . .SOON
I certainly wasn't looking for an argument, and I'm about as far from a Constitution expert as can be. But I do think that all constitutions are simply flow charts, diagrams as such, for consiousness.* What I mean is, for example, something is planned or decided or noticed and the Constitution simply tells it, the human consciousness, where to go for a fix:* the Senate, Congress, Supreme Court, or, maybe back to the state.* Something has to be there to make sure that particlars can be generalized ("provide":"promote") or the reverse.* Enough said!
Ruh-roh-- do I sense another Hamilton-Jefferson cage match coming up at the house of Martha & Greg?

"You constructionist!"

"Interpretationist!!"
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Re: Health Insurance
Old 08-14-2006, 12:40 PM   #47
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Re: Health Insurance

Even Jefferson found a way to justify the Louisana purchase. Universal health insurance is much more a matter of finances, philosophical differences, and will than a Constitutional issue. I start this post, got my questions answered, not time to end it before it turns into something entirely different than I intended.
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Re: Health Insurance
Old 08-14-2006, 12:42 PM   #48
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Re: Health Insurance

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Originally Posted by Nords
Ruh-roh-- do I sense another Hamilton-Jefferson cage match coming up at the house of Martha & Greg?*
As long as it doesn't turn into a Hamilton-Burr match
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Re: Health Insurance
Old 08-14-2006, 07:23 PM   #49
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Re: Health Insurance

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Originally Posted by 2B
Sheryl,

I think Washington has a winner for me.* If your numbers are with the deductible it's well below what I would pay.* I could move in with my sister in Belllingham and be a done deal.* How does the coverage transfer out of state.* I intend to be the proverbial rolling stone.

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That, I don't know. I advise you to do your own research before you move. <-- Martha-like disclaimer.
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