help in planing

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Hey Johnny...we've been through this a couple of times before.

Martha Stewart didnt go to jail because she stepped into a mass of legal issues that would trip up any high falootin gal. She went to jail because she broke laws that she was an expert in, lied about it, and then told the investigating authorities to take a hike.

Thats like a driving instructor running a red light, then telling the cop that stops him that he wasnt even driving, and then telling the cop to go screw himself.

Ken Lay and Bernie Ebbers and the rest of those guys are going to go to jail because they too knowingly broke the law, cheated their customers, employees and investors, and now they're trying to pass the blame onto others.

The first two words that come to mind when I consider that behavior are "pussy" and "weasel".

I hope they rot in jail for a very long time and become very popular in the shower. Then they'll have a good idea of how their customers felt.

As far as the rest of this, gimme a break. The republican party is not representative of traditional conservative values. Its a hodge podge of lightning rod issues that galvanize voters, wrapped up in fantastic public relations and marketing.

The ineffective democrats cant fight their way out of a wet paper bag.

The idea that if you're not behind Bush 100%, or if you dont think everyone should have 100 assault weapons in their home, or if they're pro-choice...that you cant be a conservative? Laughable.

Right now we're two nations, divided, both sides crapping on each other at every turn, hundreds of billions spent on wars overseas to "bring democracy" to people who have resisted such attempts for centuries, hundreds of billions spent on "homeland security" to bring us duct tape and plastic sheeting, along with color coded warnings. Self imposed reductions in our civil rights and liberties.

Who needs terrorists? :P

As far as the "red state/blue state" crowing...statistically the majority of "red state voters" during polls demonstrated a very poor grasp of the issues and voted according to what the tv told them. I'd probably want to keep that to myself.

[Eagle43]

I also hope Ken Lay and Ebbers get a little help with the soap while incarcerated. Maybe they'll learn how to hold on to something like they told/made their employees to hold on to their worthless stock. As to Martha, I'm not quite sure, but expect she did break the law and had the misfortune for a political candidate for governor needing a show trial. Anyway, she's paying her dues as they were meted out. I think she's out next week and last Sunday her stock was up 115% from its bottom.

It is true that we're two nations divided almost down the middle. It's too bad we cannot discuss issues anymore. Nowadays, your opposition has to be demonized. There's no discussion, only screaming and name-calling. Ain't politics great?

[MJ]

TH,

I wish I was 1/2 as articulate as you are. Your words pack a powerful and intelligent wallop.

MJ

Hello Hyperborea, TH, MJ, and Eagle. I don't take back anything I've posted. As I've said before, unless I am
just screwing around I am always honest. Thus, you
can feel free to take your best shot. I can take it.

Republicans and Democrats are pretty much equally
repulsive. I support the lesser evil, but not enough to
vote (it only encourages them). Anyway, mainly for Hyperborea..............no "backpedaling" here. I am not
interested in being "more reasonable". Only in stating
my view, which is still allowed by The First Amendment.
Being "reasonable" is not one of my goals. Trust me!

JG

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Quote:

I also hope Ken Lay and Ebbers get a little help with the soap while incarcerated. Maybe they'll learn how to hold on to something like they told/made their employees to hold on to their worthless stock. As to Martha, I'm not quite sure, but expect she did break the law and had the misfortune for a political candidate for governor needing a show trial. Anyway, she's paying her dues as they were meted out. I think she's out next week and last Sunday her stock was up 115% from its bottom. It is true that we're two nations divided almost down the middle. It's too bad we cannot discuss issues anymore. Nowadays, your opposition has to be demonized. There's no discussion, only screaming and name-calling. Ain't politics great?

Soaps a lubricant, hmm? I'd rather they didnt get any. As far as Lay goes, I live in california where his companies minions induced blackouts and jacked up electric rates 100% while we were sweltering in 100+ degree weather. Me and my wife sat out back and drank margaritas. I wonder how the people in their 90's took it.

As far as Martha goes, let me clue you into two details, one broad and one fine.

If you really care and arent just looking to broadcast empty platitudes...read up on her...she has a history of screwing over business partners and friends for financial gain. She claims skills she doesnt have, takes credit for other peoples works, and has no problems with sticking the shiv into someones back if she can make a buck off of it. When the poop hits the rotary air moving device and you need friends...what did she get? Her vacation 'friend' who ratted her out because Martha charged her for her half of all their vacations and then expensed the whole thing to her company, pocketing her friends money...and her personal assistant who she forced to pick up her dogs poop off the company carpets. Her broker assistant who made the case against her? She ripped him a new one for five minutes because she didnt like the "music on hold" she had to listen to.

You can be a dick...but when you need help and that help involves your friends backing you up, you better have treated them like friends and allies.

The fine detail? When the feds came in to question her, she could have finessed and charmed them. Instead she answered a couple of questions and when they went past 10 minutes she told them "I'm sorry, we're done...I have a business to run...goodbye"

You're an experienced federal investigator and she pulls that...what would you do? Drop her a free pass?

Eagle - the problem with our country today is that we have two piss-poor parties backed by billions who will effectively keep out any credible challenger who isnt a movie star.

We need real leadership, not empty and silly statements like "we're safer now", "we're bringing democracy to the world" and "Quite frankly, teachers are the only profession that teach our children."

MJ - I appreciate your sentiment. While I'm a wiseguy and create an awful lot of mildly amusing and wildly unprofitable (not to mention incorrect) posts, I do try.

TH, you are a hard guy not to like
(perhaps unlike your faithful correspondent ).
Anyway, even when I disagree (often) your posts
are mostly amusing and almost always well written.

At the risk of beating the "dead horse" unrecognizable,
I must revisit the "Martha and Martha types" issue.
I suspect my views stem mainly from three (3)
visceral feelings. First, I have little or no respect for authority. Second, free wheeling, hands-off,
bare knuckles free enterprise appeals to me, and
three (3), I have run several companies, for myself and others. It's dog eat dog and those who prosper are
usually not shrinking violets. Thus, they come across
as arrogant, demanding, unreasonable, egotistical,
and insensitive. In many cases undoubtedly this is all true (certainly so in my case ). I always look at these
people from the other side of the coin, i.e. what they accomplished, not their personality flaws. In my mind
they (Martha types) are heroes and should be treated
accordingly, and a lot (not all) of what they got charged with is capitalism-bashing,
pure and simple.

I expect to see a lot more of this in the future. In fact,
the killing off of and distain for free enterprise is one of
the reasons I quit. Regulars will recall that my attorney
once said that in the eyes of government and some
others, I was "the evil big guy." I found out he was
right. I guess Martha did too.

JG

[unclemick]

JG

I watched the Merck CEO on Charlie Rose (PBS) the other night - definitely came across as put our customers first - look at the study data and do the right thing on Vioxx type.

Freshly minted out of college starting in mfg. research. I remember - " never smile in manufacturing - they will think you are nuts." And if you wish to advance into management - learn to scream and yell and pound the the table.

Partly tongue in cheek - with an element of truth(1960's).

[Nords]

John, I spent over two decades training to kill people and smash things, and I dedicated a small portion of that time to practicing our skills. *Survivors & governments (including ours) have attested that I'm pretty good at it. *But I have to admit that's the limit of my business credibility-- although I've run budgets & departments, I've never had to make a profit. *

However I'm calling the concept of the "warrior CEO" a bunch of marketing-maven business babble. *People perceive the business world as dog-eat-dog "me vs them" because it's easier (in the short term) than being ethical-- and because it gets more publicity. *But for every headline-grabbing slimeball CEO there are dozens of other CEOs who somehow manage to run successful businesses without personifying your stereotypes. *I'm not saying that you were bad at the way you did it, but I am claiming that there are better ways to do it. *To mangle your analogy, dogs eat better when they hunt in packs instead of preying on each other.

Speaking as a father of a daughter, Martha Stewart is an especial shame to her gender. *One of Stanley's findings in "Millionaire Women Next Door" is that women prosper better than men because they cooperate-- especially with other women-- for longer-term benefits. *The lack of testosterone poisoning makes them able to appreciate true alliances & partnerships (to others as well as to themselves) instead of grabbing for gratification or greenbacks. *Their accomplishments aren't easily tallied in terms of "headcount" or "net worth".

Yeah, I know-- if they're so good at it, why aren't they running the S&P500? *Well, it turns out that, excepting the Martha Stewarts & Carly Fiorinas & Jill Barads, they're pretty much smarter than men. *You might enjoy reading Fast Company's article "Where Are The Women?". *

(Martha_M, if you're reading this article too, then it's a good thing that you're already on the ER track!)

Well Nords, we will just have to agree to disagree and I especially take exception to "women are smarter than men". Although, you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

Everyone has their own style. My wife says that mine
is to "beat my opponent into submission"

If any of you have visted Raddr's site, you will see that
I described myself as a smaller version of Rush Limbaugh
or Tony Soprano without the tact. A joke of course, but
with a bit of truth at the core.

JG

[Eagle43]

Quote:

Eagle - the problem with our country today is that we have two piss-poor parties backed by billions who will effectively keep out any credible challenger who isnt a movie star. .

I think it's funny. Forty years the Dems dominated Congress, the media, and most of the presidencies; and now, alas, they can't win dog catcher. Must be those religious nuts

One thing's for sure. You can criticize Bush; you can hate Bush, but the boy is a winner. You libs better keep your eye on Mr. Rove. Cause GWB is gonna go away in 2008, but Mr. Rove has bigger fish to fry; like the Democratic Party.

TH, how's that for a platitude?

All I can tell you is that I am an atheist, and by no means like all that the republicans spout, that said, I just cant stand it when the liberal aclu [aclu is good for nothing at all] fights to Arab women the right to have drivers lis. photos done with burkes on. what a joke, it is just that kind of crap mindedness that got us into 9-11 in the first place.
Clintonista had the chance to nab Osama and passed it up, we mite offend the nasty rag heads.
or when a Clinton state official had a key video surveillance tape destroyed to indicted a col. in the us army for firing on rag heads firing on them.
The story is the same, liberals hate the establishment. and will do any thing to bring it down. the same aclu that fought and won the right for neo Nazi's to march in Jewish neighborhoods.
The same aclu that wants to take the rights of any one away that does not believe in what they do.
I personally hate religion, any religion. all religion.
But if some one is stupid enough to go to Bennie hinn and give him 10k to spread manure, more power to them, or if they want to fly to south America and give john of god 5k to have a clamp stuck in their nose and twisted, let em go.
I think they deserve what they get. but in a free society you have to live and let live, as long as you do not incite a riot or hurt someone else.
A gun in my house will only hurt some one that should not be there. {if you are found in my home at night you will be found there in the morning}
The problem is that the libs believe in freedom of speech as long as it is the same ideas that they themselves believe in.
just look at the biggest load of shi! put on the American people since the {Kennedy was a good president} scheme.
that is political correctness, where the liberals shut down the Vermont bears that had a strait jacket on that said I'm nuts about you, ohhh bad light on the rain men.
or the gummy animals with tire tracks in them, called gummy road kill. don't use animals for drug research, they have rights to. don't cut the trees, the spotted owl's can only live in one kind, never mind they have been seen nesting in k-mart signs.
Ted danson said 15 years ago, "in ten years the seas will be lifeless" well we have not done anything different and there is still a lot of life in the sea. so much so that whaling can be done on a controlled level.
The liberals have the trial lawyers in their pocket, thank god bush got the limit on damages.
How about the gun manufactures suits [thank god every one has been thrown out] the dam things did exactly what they were advertised to do.
I mean next the drunk can sue the jack denials brewery for making alcohol, because some one can get addicted to it. who knew?
If it were not for the common since of the conservatives, the usa would be in a pile of shi! up to its eye brows.
The Ideas of the Roosevelt era was a good one. take care of the working man, tax the ultra rich and spread it to the less fortunate, but that is a far cry from what the dems have become. to much pot in the 60s and much more acid. now it is a party of Nancy phoolesy, and Ted hiccup, I did not know my car had a pregnant secretary in it Kennedy. the people who think that they know better than the individual, and that is it in the end. the dems don't like people who think for them selves. liberals are lemmings, follow the leader. Kerry was nominated so he must be good, better than any one as evil as bush, never mind that bush has done more than Clinton ever thought of doing to protect the nation.
Clinton will only be remembered for putting cigars up Monaca's cooter.
not bad if you are Larry flint, but president, and that is all he will ever be remembered for. so you liberals have done much to impress me, remember it was a dem that declared war on Germany, it was a dem that started the Vietnam war. it was a republican that pulled us out. it was dems that started the kkk, and still to this day bird head was a former pretty pretty pretty grand wizard.
You libs sit in the mud and that you made and say the dam conservatives, they did this to us. well pick you selves up and look in the mirror. and you will see who did what

[unclemick]

If anybody is planning on retirement(ER or otherwise) the only votes that really count - in a manner of speaking - are those involving Adam Smith's "Invisible Hand" aka currencies, bonds, stocks here and worldwide.

Government polices get weighed and judged - maybe slowly - and they are using real money - to para-phrase Yogi.

[RAE]

Ed - I think you need to go back and re-read TH's post. There is certainly room for disagreement on many of the issues being discussed here, but mindlessly applying labels to people because they take a different position than you on an issue is not only wrong, it's very tiresome. I usually enjoy this forum because, for the most part, the debates are reasoned and intelligent. Let's please try to keep it that way, and not slip into labelling and name-calling. I can find that on any number of other internet forums.........

RAE

I'm just happy that Ed isn't a liberal. He would be more damaging to the liberal cause than any person that he mentions in his posts.

Ed, to get yourself out of a hole, the first step is to stop digging.

My last post was not directed at him, it was a general opinion post to the others that have attacked anything non liberal. My apologies to th if he thought I was criticizing his opinion.

you know cut, you have posted many times and I have yet to see you argue with facts, instead you throw out snipes, and a snipe does not an intelligent argument make.

ed,

You really don't believe that the drivel you have been spewing are facts, do you?

I choose not to roll around with the pigs, lest I get dirty.

I rest my case!!!!!!!!

Hey ed, It is like ben franklin said "Who has deceiv'd thee so oft as thy self? "
the liberals do this best of all.
They think they are on the right track, but they are the ones in the mud with the pigs.

Ah, politics! you gotta love it

I am staying out of the "mud" today. As far as "pigs",
I am going to fry up some bacon now. This is allowed as
I am still on the "wab" diet

Love and peace...............

JG