help w/Schwab cust.svc. and wire fees?

[ladelfina]

Maybe CFB has some tips here for how to deal with this.

The issue is charges for intl. wire transfers. For a while I had not been charged; then they started charging me $25 a pop. The past and current Pricing Guide says the same thing:

Wire transfer fee: With $100,000–$499,999 in Household Balances, you will receive three free online domestic wire transfers per quarter; with $500,000 or more in Household Balances, or 36 or more stock or option trades per year in Accounts of Your Household, you will receive three free wire transfers per quarter.

http://www.schwab.com/cms/P-1036363.7/July07_Pricing_Guide_REG23060-10.pdf?cmsid=P-1036363


I'll try to make it brief: the first time I got hit, I wrote and complained and got this response (all edited to just include the salient parts):

(May 7) ... your inquiry regarding the wire fee was forwarded to my attention. I'm pleased to let you know the fee will be reversed with the next 24-48 hours. I've also taken steps to ensure that this doesn't reoccur in the future.

then this response:

(May 16) I want to take a moment to clarify Schwab's wire fee schedule .... When I went to review your account to prevent the wire fees from reoccurring I became aware your wire was an international bank wire. Schwab provides clients with three domestic bank wires per quarter at no cost. Schwab assesses a fee of $25 on all international wires. The fee waiver still stand but future international wires will carry the $25 fee.

then me, after a second transfer that got dinged with a fee:

In the case of a lower household balance, the word "domestic" is used; this is absent in the higher balance category. I can't imagine this is an oversight and would appreciate action or information from a supervisor if necessary, since the way I read this it is quite clear that no fees should be imposed whatsoever.

then him:

Please contact me at the number below and I will be happy to review this with you

---
I guess I just want to get a sense of whether I am becoming an unhinged crank or not. How do you guys read this?

I have had a good overall experience w/Schwab until now. What I, in fact, liked was the transparency and straightforwardness. I don't particularly want to have to (or even have to threaten to) go elsewhere as it would be a giant pain and likely not worth the $100-$200 yearly that they are going to dock me now for wire fees. BUT, as I suggested in my first letter regarding identical language in the '06 Pricing Guide, I feel they should either make the policy fit the language or make the language reflect the actual policy.

Any advice before I make this phone call? I don't have a lot of leverage in the relationship as I'm not an active trader and they don't make money off me in other ways like margin loans, banking, cc.s, etc.

 

[brewer12345]

Hmmm, as I read it, the policy pretty clearly says the waiver is on domestic wire transfers, so I think that you will only be able to avoid the fees if you manage to get them to waive it for you in spite of what it says.

 

[LOL!]

Mildly related was an issue I had with my TDAmeritrade brokerage account. I complained about my issue (dollar amount: $4) by e-mail and got a prompt reply that was not helpful. I kept up the pressure in 3 more e-mails over the course of 2 weeks and always got a prompt reply. They were quite sweet, but never enough to my satisfaction. In the end, they gave me one free trade which was worth $0 to me, because I no longer trade in that account (it's a hold and hold account).

The wire transfer probably costs Schwab real time, effort and thus money. Maybe you can get them to give you a free trade or two to make you satisfied?

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

I guess in lawyerland I might read it that both domestic and international wires are free at the higher level, because they dont specifically say 'domestic'.

Sounds like they're not sure how to interpret it either, since one rep said it wouldnt happen again, while another read it differently.

But in the meanwhile I'd keep hammering them to live by what their guidelines say.

Eventually the bureaucracy will probably be galvanized to change the wording.

 

[Alan]

If it means 3 free domestic wire transfers in both cases what is the advantage to the higher value investor - seems pointless to even mention it if there is no difference. I would argue that at best it is mis-leading and get credit for the transfers up 'til the point of your dispute, and they should re-word their policy.

 

[bpp3]

If it means 3 free domestic wire transfers in both cases what is the advantage to the higher value investor - seems pointless to even mention it if there is no difference.

What Alan said. The first case is qualified with "online domestic," while the second case is unqualified -- and the second case doesn't even make sense to mention if it is not different from the first. I think you are fine standing your ground, so go get 'em on behalf of expats everywhere. I hate when this kind of ambiguity gets glossed over. Schwab specializes in handling overseas accounts, so they should be able to get this straightened out and clarified.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Well, the higher level does drop the "online" qualifier. Some of these guys really think that talking to one of their incompetent customer service people is worth an awful lot.

I'd suggest sending them the bag of flaming dog poop via Fed-Ex, but the special service fees for that are more expensive than your wire transfer fees.

 

[Alan]

I'd suggest sending them the bag of flaming dog poop via Fed-Ex, but the special service fees for that are more expensive than your wire transfer fees.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Well, it is a really nice service. They refrigerate the poop until the final leg, then the delivery guy lights it, sets it in an optimal position, and rings the bell.

Just like if you did it yourself, except maybe for that refrigerated poop part.

I understand 1000 hours of software development time went into the bag positioning software and GPS pinpointing of the moment of delivery so you can zoom in with Google Earth is in the works.

 

[bpp3]

Well, it is a really nice service.

Sounds like a pretty crappy service to me.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Hey, I'm giving you the straight poop here.

 

[bpp3]

Hey, I'm giving you the straight poop here.

Heh heh, he said "poop," heh heh.

BTW, are these incoming or outgoing wires? If incoming, I see further support for "free" at
Foreign Currency Wire Transfer Service.
If not, I guess it is back to picking over the wording from your contract. (Or try to make fewer, larger transfers per year.)

Make Deposits, Wire Funds
Schwab accepts wired deposits to your account in foreign currency and automatically converts them to U.S. dollars. There are no wire acceptance fees on deposits - we only charge our very competitive exchange rate.
[...]
Consolidated Statement
Keeping track of transactions is easy too. Any outgoing wire fees are automatically deducted from your Schwab account and transactions are documented on your regular Schwab statement.

 

[ladelfina]

I hate when this kind of ambiguity gets glossed over.

Right bpp3!... ok, so you and Alan and CFB essentially read it like I do.

I don't really have a "contract"; the Pricing Guide is the go-to document. Changes may be sent during the year, and are noted in the re-issue. The irritating thing is, I questioned this wording in May, but the new Guide put out in July has the same ambiguous language. I just am not looking forward to trying to battle over it long-distance on my dime with a front-line drone, since I already know what his position is.

"In lawyerland".. pretty funny, bunny. THEY have, I'm sure, a whole stable of lawyers that review their regulations. I'm just a poor shmoe customer trying to stay on her toes.

Thanks to the Sancho Panzas out there. We have guests this week so I'm going to procrastinate on this 'til next week and if I get a definitive resolution will report back.

 

[tryan]

I dropped Schwab after I had trouble getting an EOY transaction statement. Seems I opted not to pay $10 for this "service" ... try doing taxes without one!

I told the rep my Filedilty and Vangaurd accounts are not charged for this service ... they sent one for free. Emptied the account few weeks later. Seems to me they are no longer in the discount brokage business.

 

[saluki9]

International transfers use a system called SWIFT which is different than a domestic wire which use the FedWire system.

These cost Schwab a lot more to use, and there is more backup information and data entering for them to do along with more records to keep. $25 is a bargain, I wouldn't complain.

 

[FinanceDude]

International wires are a LOT more expensive to process than domestic ones, due to intermediaries. $25 is a bargain, no doubt negotiated by Chuck due to how much volume they do.

When I worked at Chase, international wires got as high as $75, depending on how "good" a bank client the person was.........

The contract DOES say DOMESTIC.........

 

[bpp3]

International wires are a LOT more expensive to process than domestic ones, due to intermediaries. $25 is a bargain, no doubt negotiated by Chuck due to how much volume they do.

When I worked at Chase, international wires got as high as $75, depending on how "good" a bank client the person was.........

$20-$33 (2500-4000 yen) is about retail standard for sending international wires from Japan via local bank, broker, Citibank, whomever, so $25 doesn't strike me as being particularly a bargain. And I doubt the overhead is lower here, partly on general principle, plus partly because the banks here have to do reporting to the local tax authorities on any out-of-country transfers (you have to tell them the purpose for sending the money -- hint, don't put down "drug profits laundering"). (Of course US banks have something similar, but only for transfers greater than $10,000, I believe -- unless there is also some secret PATRIOT Act nonsense going on in the background, which come to think of it is quite possible.)

So I pay that, plus the $10 that my bank in the US charges to receive an international wire, but I just minimize how often I do it -- once or twice a year at most.

The contract DOES say DOMESTIC.........

That's the whole point, apparently it doesn't... (Or are you talking about the contract itself, as opposed to the pricing guide that ladelfina quoted?) Not so much whether the fee itself is reasonable or not.

 

[clifp]

FWIW. I made 5 international wires transfer in 2004 and 1 in 2005, and didn't get charged a dime. I do have a >$1 million with Schwab. But I will say that normally international anything faxes/wire transfer etc do cost more than domestic.

 

[mikew]

Actually Schwab's wire service for sending money in isn't an international wire. I send yen to schwab's account at Citibank in Tokyo and they just switch the money internally. I don't think I have been charged a fee unless it was a sneaky one.

Also, ladefina are you dealing with domestic customer service? There are special customer service centers that handle overseas customers. Charles Schwab (415-667-6787). They also gave us a local number that connects directly to the US call center as a domestic call. They might have the same thing for your area.

 

[saluki9]

Actually Schwab's wire service for sending money in isn't an international wire. I send yen to schwab's account at Citibank in Tokyo and they just switch the money internally. I don't think I have been charged a fee unless it was a sneaky one.

Schwab is our largest vendor and I deal with them every day. They don't have some special system that applies to only them. Like all firms, they use SWIFT to send international wires. If you don't believe me, allow me to show you all of Schwab's account numbers and wire IDs

http://chinese.schwab.com/cms/P-939...cmsid=P-939905&refid=P-940777&refpid=P-925329

Depending on your account size, and how your account was originated (retajl or advisor) and your location when you opened the account you may be charged a reduced fee or none at all. Even though our firm has over 9 figures of assets at Schwab, they will not give us a hard fee schedule for internation transfers because they change depending on the final destination of the wire.

 

[mikew]

Hi Saluki
I think this may be matter of perspective. You are right that the schwab master accounts on the sheet you posted use the swift codes when you send money by international wire. However, if you live in one of the countries where schwab maintains one of these accounts, you can send the money through the account to your schwab account without using the swift system. Schwab reports my money as funds wired in but they do not charge me a fee.

I have assumed the purpose of the accounts is to let customers avoid the swift system and allow them to save money on wire and exchange rate charges when they send money to schwab. Of the brokers, I looked at schwab was the only one who had set up this type of system.