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Old 05-24-2016, 07:54 AM   #341
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Like I said before, I don't think I flaunt anything. But I do acknowledge it's hard to hide things like luxury autos and homes. I try to sympathize with the poor and give generously to charities. The biggest "gift" would certainly by the income taxes I pay. We live in a capitalist society that allows and in fact seems to encourage wealth disparity. At some point things might get a little "unpleasant" in the US if this wealth disparity continues to grow. But probably not in my lifetime, and not likely in Canada.

So in the meantime, I carry on "sensitively" enjoying the benefits of wealth.
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Hiding Your Wealth (NOT a poll) :)
Old 05-24-2016, 08:36 AM   #342
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Hiding Your Wealth (NOT a poll) :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bclover View Post
If I'm driving down Vine street to get on I95, am I now insensitive to the homeless guys because I'm in a Mercedes?
I really don't know but I am saying I am uncomfortable with it and I would never buy $150 sneakers as I see them as wasteful and the emperor's new clothes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bclover View Post
Wasn't the point of working hard. lbym and saving, to actually have MORE freedom not less??

The point for me of LBYM wasn't to accumulate expensive toys.. It was to live free from stress to pay for the car repair and to say yes to a semester abroad to a hard working daughter..

It isn't the random homeless person ... It is the guy who is at the light panhandling every day, the soup kitchen day after day...

No Mercedes, no $150 sneakers, no Rolex it just isn't who I am.


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Old 05-24-2016, 09:06 AM   #343
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My daily shoes are usually $50-$60 NB from Kohl's, but when I was a "runner", spending $150 or so on quality running shoes wasn't unusual or particularly spendy...

Of course, I don't jog these days; I ride a 70s-vintage 10-speed that I bought at a garage sale for $45. I could afford something newer/nicer/higher tech, and might someday, but I ride because I enjoy riding, and for exercise. No one, including and especially me, will ever confuse me for an elite cyclist.
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Old 05-24-2016, 09:30 AM   #344
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As the person who started this mess of a thread (18 pages? Seriously LOL) I have a confession to make.

First, I certainly hope to become so wealthy that I *need* to hide it. However, I'd be satisfied with being financially independent.

Second, as we will be spending a lot of our retirement years in foreign, often '3rd world' countries we'll probably seem wealthy in comparison to many locals. So hiding our wealth may be needed at lower levels than would be necessary in the US or Europe.

Third, and this is the confession part, I have a feeling that I might opt for a few areas where I actually splurge, especially as my separate investment fund(s) begin to grow to decent levels. I'll still look for value and buy with a minimalist and eco-friendly view, but comfort and style could play a greater role. At least I can see that happening. So there, I feel better now.
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Old 05-24-2016, 09:31 AM   #345
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In Vancouver, panhandlers average $55,000 tax-free. In Mexico, the street people are deposited by van each day to their designated spots. They have a quota and get a % each day. In Canada, they sometimes use a dog to increase yield. In Mexico, it is a small child.

Successful beach vendors have their kids in private schools and drive nice cars. Of course they park many blocks always and change clothes. Apprenticeships start at age 5 selling Chiclets.

So we are careful in our donations to charity. Take appearances with a grain of salt.
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Old 05-24-2016, 09:47 AM   #346
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In Vancouver, panhandlers average $55,000 tax-free. In Mexico, the street people are deposited by van each day to their designated spots. They have a quota and get a % each day. In Canada, they sometimes use a dog to increase yield. In Mexico, it is a small child.

Successful beach vendors have their kids in private schools and drive nice cars. Of course they park many blocks always and change clothes. Apprenticeships start at age 5 selling Chiclets.
Curious how you know about the Mexican panhandlers/beach vendors? Is it personal interactions or is there a linkable source? I'm genuinely curious if it's really such an organized racket (and kudos to those resourceful shady people if so!).
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Old 05-24-2016, 09:50 AM   #347
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Second, as we will be spending a lot of our retirement years in foreign, often '3rd world' countries we'll probably seem wealthy in comparison to many locals. So hiding our wealth may be needed at lower levels than would be necessary in the US or Europe.
We've traveled a lot in Mexico and even though it's easy enough to spot us (or at least me and maybe my kids; DW not so much) as tourists, we don't display any outward signs of wealth mainly because we don't own watches and never wear jewelry or designer anything because it's not convenient (simplicity = convenience = true luxury).

I'm operating on the theory that there's always a wealthier tourist standing nearby that would be the target of a scam or kidnapping and they would look at our family and think us more of the backpacker set.
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Old 05-24-2016, 10:42 AM   #348
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I was surprised on my recent trip to Belgium by the amount of gypsy (Romany) beggars there were in the tourist trap areas (and they always had/carried small kids. Even the 65 year old women ?! )

Wealth and your relation to it seems to come down to how you were raised to me. I always tell (an apocryphal) story about me and my business partner to people when the subject comes up. (He had money as a child and is looking at a 7 or 8 figure inheritance one day)

We were driving to a sales call one day. We both looked out the window of the car while we were driving along the highway.

He saw a guy out his window that was driving a Porsche. He said: Life isn't fair, that should be me.

I saw a guy out of my window that was digging a ditch. I said: Life is great. I'm glad that isn't me.

Glass half full/empty sort of thing.
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Old 05-24-2016, 10:50 AM   #349
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We know some extremely wealthy folks who no one would suspect of being wealthy by their lifestyle, travel habits, or outward signs of wealth. Just the way they are and who they are. They are as comfortable in a six star resort as they are staying in a small B&B. You might get an inkling by their clothing and shoes. Not because of the brand name tags etc. By the quality and the cut. Very few of their high end items are visibly badged.

We also know some folks who are running very close to the wire as it were but make a point of having some of the outward signs of wealth and financial well being. It is an illusion.
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why is one acceptable and the other not/
Old 05-24-2016, 01:41 PM   #350
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why is one acceptable and the other not/

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Originally Posted by rayinpenn View Post
I really don't know but I am saying I am uncomfortable with it and I would never buy $150 sneakers as I see them as wasteful and the emperor's new clothes.




The point for me of LBYM wasn't to accumulate expensive toys.. It was to live free from stress to pay for the car repair and to say yes to a semester abroad to a hard working daughter..

It isn't the random homeless person ... It is the guy who is at the light panhandling every day, the soup kitchen day after day...

No Mercedes, no $150 sneakers, no Rolex it just isn't who I am.


Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forumh
that's cool. I just want to point out the hypocrisy people harbor toward how money is spent.

according to what I think your saying is
travel= good use of money
rolex watch= bad use of money and irresponsible to society.

How is that so?

My sneakers allow me to keep my mobility without a well made pair of shoes/sneakers I do further joint damage. If I had said I was taking a fabulous cruise, in general the response would have been "oohs and aahs" no one would have even mention soup kitchens. take that same cash and say you are buying some thing and you're told about all the suffering in the nation.

if thousands are spent traveling everyone is cool with that, if thousands are spent on speed boats. we should be doing more to help the poor?

iMO the reason I saved and lbmm was to have options and choices. I wanted to spend a month in Paris I wanted to b e able to, If I wanted to take that same money and buy enough legos to replicate all of paris in my livingroom, I wanted to be able to do that also.

maybe that's the real reason to hide one's wealth
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Old 05-24-2016, 01:45 PM   #351
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I just hid some more wealth today by ordering up another half dozen 14 oz Maine lobster tails that cost me $250. I'm gonna cook them up in the backyard on the grill and eat them inside my house where nobody will see us like they would at a restaurant.

The only evidence will be the shells in the garbage can -
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Old 05-24-2016, 02:17 PM   #352
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Lots of talk about cigarette boats. I am not a boat guy but did have a case in recent years with a cigarette boat guy. Anyway, boat owner was a contractor (owner of small company). He bought the boat a few years used for about $100k cash. His total net worth was under $500k so the boat was a large part of his net worth. He made a good income and he chose to spend on a boat. It was important to him. To me it's a waste of money no matter how wealthy or not a person is but that was this guys hobby. I guess my only point is we should not guess how wealthy, or not, a person is by the size of their boat. To each his own....
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Old 05-24-2016, 02:21 PM   #353
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Besides the cigarette boat thing I wanted to reply separately in general. We try to live stealth like but some stuff just can't be hidden. Plus, I really dislike that I feel the need to not talk about financial stuff, like the fact we are buying a few new rental properties right now, in front of family, friends and co-workers. I am being stealth like in not talking about it, not leaving evidence around the office, etc... but it bothers me there is that need. I think it's interesting but I end up "talking" about it on internet chat boards rather than with close friends or family due to the negative side effects of being "wealthy."
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Old 05-24-2016, 02:25 PM   #354
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I'm going to buy another boat as soon as I get the house fixed up. It's going to float in a slip in the Delta. It'll be another old used piece of crap with a good motor that won't leave me stranded and that I won't have to worry about spilling chicken livers (catfish bait) on.

Yup, it's your dough and you should enjoy it anyway you like. Have fun!
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Old 05-24-2016, 02:35 PM   #355
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...........if thousands are spent traveling everyone is cool with that, if thousands are spent on speed boats. we should be doing more to help the poor? ............
That's nuthin'. Try announcing here that you bought an electric car.
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Old 05-24-2016, 02:48 PM   #356
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Not if you use your speed boat to bring food to the poor.

Or you donate an electric car to the poor instead of a gas-guzzler.
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Old 05-24-2016, 03:34 PM   #357
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My grandfather ran a speakeasy during Prohibition and was VERY familiar with cigarette boats.
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Old 05-24-2016, 04:41 PM   #358
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Finally I understand why people love ER.

More time to complain about how awful other people are.

As Sartre wrote, L' enfer, cÚst les autres.

Ha
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Old 05-24-2016, 04:52 PM   #359
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Finally I understand why people love ER.

More time to complain about how awful other people are.

As Sartre wrote, L' enfer, cÚst les autres.

Ha
+1. How I (or others) spend their money is nobody's business. You will have more friends if you don't overly flaunt it though. Hiding it, goes a step too far in my view.
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Hiding Your Wealth (NOT a poll) :)
Old 05-24-2016, 05:57 PM   #360
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Hiding Your Wealth (NOT a poll) :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bclover
I just want to point out the hypocrisy people harbor toward how money is spent. according to what I think your saying is
travel= good use of money
rolex watch= bad use of money and irresponsible to society.
And I want to point out that there's never a need to insult anyone... Plus your mistaken...

You have read what I've written but you clearly don't get a sense of it.
1. My daughters travel = enhanced education and education is not a flashy nor is it conspicuous consumption. Your comparison is a poor one.
2. It's interesting but did you know a Rolex isn't a very accurate watch? 25 Timex or Casio digital watch will keep time just as well as, and possibly better than, a $20,000 solid gold mechanical Omega, Rolex, or other very fine watch.
So why buy one the warranty? I can buy a lifetime of Timex's for half of the cost of a Rolex. It's all about the bling - flashy bling.

Point of order -if your Rolex and Mercedes gives you pleasure enjoy them. It just isn't for me. I never said I wont spend money I just won't spend on bling... I prefer to fly below the radar.



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